first use of a sidemount rebreather

Duncan Price · 23rd February 2007, 15:37

I have been doing some research for a book and stumbled across what I believe is the first use of a sidemount rebreather.

Steve Wynne-Roberts used a side-slung SEBA-ATEA (submarine escape breathing appartus - amphibious tank escape apparatus) hybrid to pass Sump 6 in Swildon's hole on 2 June 1962 in the company of Mike Boon and Mike Thompson (on OC). The equipment was then used to pass Sump 2 in Stoke Lane Slocker for the first time on 16 September of the same year.

A photograph of the kit (modelled by Aubry Newport) is attached and reproduced by kind permission of Phil Davies. A description appears in "A Pictorial history of Swildon's Hole", WCC Occasional Publication (1975) edited by P Davies.

Curt Bowen · 23rd February 2007, 16:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price)

I have been doing some research for a book and stumbled across what I believe is the first use of a sidemount rebreather.

Steve Wynne-Roberts used a side-slung SEBA-ATEA (submarine escape breathing appartus - amphibious tank escape apparatus) hybrid to pass Sump 6 in Swildon's hole on 2 June 1962 in the company of Mike Boon and Mike Thompson (on OC). The equipment was then used to pass Sump 2 in Stoke Lane Slocker for the first time on 16 September of the same year.

A photograph of the kit (modelled by Aubry Newport) is attached and reproduced by kind permission of Phil Davies. A description appears in "A Pictorial history of Swildon's Hole", WCC Occasional Publication (1975) edited by P Davies.

Thats just really you in your kit, you used photoshop to make the photo look old. LOL

Duncan Price · 26th February 2007, 07:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by Curt Bowen)

Thats just really you in your kit, you used photoshop to make the photo look old. LOL

The dif***ult bit was doing the extra hair.

Marc T · 26th February 2007, 07:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price)

The dif***ult bit was doing the extra hair.

Except this joke and whatever you think about joker it is AFAIK, the first modern sidemounted Rebreather and a great idea from Fred Badier.
The developpement of the joki from an idea of Xavier Menniscus drived to a double Rebreather dived up to 185 m in several cave dives.

Said that just for not to forget it, as anybody forgot that the pSCR system used in RB80 as been developped first by a french "engineer" to create the DC 55.

That said perhaps turning a sidemounted Rebreather into a mCCR came first to Duncan Price's mind.

Let us know

Marc T

Duncan Price · 26th February 2007, 09:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T)

Except this joke and whatever you think about joker it is AFAIK, the first modern sidemounted Rebreather and a great idea from Fred Badier.

...

That said perhaps turning a sidemounted Rebreather into a mCCR came first to Duncan Price's mind.

Steady on! I have never claimed to have invented the concept of a sidemounted rebreather. In fact it was Rick Stanton who was devising a sidemounted unit for explorations in (amongst other places) Wookey Hole. Rick and Fred are good friends and I'm sure that there was a lot of exchange of ideas. Its not about competition but about collaboration.

AFAIK the Joker was worn behind the diver's shoulders. At least in its original configuration.

The SEBA-ATEA is a constant mass flow O2 unit. It was the final type of rebreather used by the CDG before the switch from closed circuit to open circuit diving occurred in the early 1960's. Mike Boon had already demonstrated the utility of sidemounting (open circuit) to pass constricted sumps and his 1/4's rule is probably the first gas managment strategy for overhead diving. It was only natural that CCR divers would try the same mounting technique.

Rick, John Volanthen and I all put together sidemount mCCR's about the same time in early 2004 - mine first D5 underwent field trials in Florida in March of this year and Rick used his underground in France at or around the same time. I'm sure that we weren't the first.

Marc T · 26th February 2007, 12:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price)

Steady on! I have never claimed to have invented the concept of a sidemounted rebreather. In fact it was Rick Stanton who was devising a sidemounted unit for explorations in (amongst other places) Wookey Hole. Rick and Fred are good friends and I'm sure that there was a lot of exchange of ideas. Its not about competition but about collaboration.

AFAIK the Joker was worn behind the diver's shoulders. At least in its original configuration.

The SEBA-ATEA is a constant mass flow O2 unit. It was the final type of rebreather used by the CDG before the switch from closed circuit to open circuit diving occurred in the early 1960's. Mike Boon had already demonstrated the utility of sidemounting (open circuit) to pass constricted sumps and his 1/4's rule is probably the first gas managment strategy for overhead diving. It was only natural that CCR divers would try the same mounting technique.

Rick, John Volanthen and I all put together sidemount mCCR's about the same time in early 2004 - mine first D5 underwent field trials in Florida in March of this year and Rick used his underground in France at or around the same time. I'm sure that we weren't the first.

Hey cool man! Really sorry you take that as an offense, but that was a real and simple questions about
1 first cylindrical Rebreather ( perhaps RB 80 )
2 cylindrical sidemounted Rebreather ( under or other the shoulder is not the problem )
3 cylindrical mCCR Rebreather and I really dont know who is the first: Stanton's BOTS, Ducan Price D5 or Badier-Menniscus Joki

A really Paranoïd wind blow other Rebreather World today

Duncan Price · 26th February 2007, 14:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T)

Hey cool man! Really sorry you take that as an offense, but that was a real and simple questions about
1 first cylindrical Rebreather ( perhaps RB 80 )
2 cylindrical sidemounted Rebreather ( under or other the shoulder is not the problem )
3 cylindrical mCCR Rebreather and I really dont know who is the first: Stanton's BOTS, Duncan Price D5 or Badier-Menniscus Joki

A really Paranoïd wind blow other Rebreather World today

No offense taken. Its not really about being first - a lot of prototypes are truely awful (I know my initial attempt at a SM rebreather was not very good).

Rick Stanton, by his own admission, copied concepts from the RB80 (scrubber design) and Joker (position of counterlung) in the BOTS. I copied Rick.

To return to the original post, my only reason for making it was to point out that others were exploring the same concepts 40 years ago using ex-military units. OC sidemounting won the day and it is only now that we are coming full circle.

Maybe I should invent the world's first triangular rebreather and mount it up my

***Decodiver*** · 26th February 2007, 14:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price)

Maybe I should invent the world's first triangular rebreather and mount it up my

Zak has been doing that for years..........LMFAO!

UKSteve · 26th February 2007, 14:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price)

Maybe I should invent the world's first triangular rebreather and mount it up my

LOL...that would be the Toberlaron (

)as opposed to Megeladon then?

Steve

Marc T · 26th February 2007, 15:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price)

To return to the original post, my only reason for making it was to point out that others were exploring the same concepts 40 years ago using ex-military units. OC sidemounting won the day and it is only now that we are coming full circle.

Maybe I should invent the world's first triangular rebreather and mount it up my

Nice to see there is no problem. As say in many previous post its very easy to be misunderstood when "speaking" on the net and my response wasnt clear enough.
I clearely understood what you said and why in your first post, its always interesting to see that whatether you think inventing about Rebreather it has been already invented two time ( at least ).
Was a bit astonished because of no reply on an important post so tried to develop...
Sidemounted Rebreather is a great step in RB which allowed some nice explorations but MORE allowed a new start in practical CCR backup.
Cheers
Marc T

23rd February 2007, 16:51	#2 (permalink)
Curt Bowen RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA, Florida Posts: 247	Re: first use of a sidemount rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price) I have been doing some research for a book and stumbled across what I believe is the first use of a sidemount rebreather. Steve Wynne-Roberts used a side-slung SEBA-ATEA (submarine escape breathing appartus - amphibious tank escape apparatus) hybrid to pass Sump 6 in Swildon's hole on 2 June 1962 in the company of Mike Boon and Mike Thompson (on OC). The equipment was then used to pass Sump 2 in Stoke Lane Slocker for the first time on 16 September of the same year. A photograph of the kit (modelled by Aubry Newport) is attached and reproduced by kind permission of Phil Davies. A description appears in "A Pictorial history of Swildon's Hole", WCC Occasional Publication (1975) edited by P Davies. Thats just really you in your kit, you used photoshop to make the photo look old. LOL __________________
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26th February 2007, 07:31	#3 (permalink)
Duncan Price Sump Monster Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wells, Somerset, UK Posts: 336	Re: first use of a sidemount rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Curt Bowen) Thats just really you in your kit, you used photoshop to make the photo look old. LOL The dif***ult bit was doing the extra hair.
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26th February 2007, 07:56	#4 (permalink)
Marc T hell is in the details Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FRANCE Carcassonne Posts: 470	Re: first use of a sidemount rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price) The dif***ult bit was doing the extra hair. Except this joke and whatever you think about joker it is AFAIK, the first modern sidemounted Rebreather and a great idea from Fred Badier. The developpement of the joki from an idea of Xavier Menniscus drived to a double Rebreather dived up to 185 m in several cave dives. Said that just for not to forget it, as anybody forgot that the pSCR system used in RB80 as been developped first by a french "engineer" to create the DC 55. That said perhaps turning a sidemounted Rebreather into a mCCR came first to Duncan Price's mind. Let us know Marc T
(Online)

26th February 2007, 09:09	#5 (permalink)
Duncan Price Sump Monster Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wells, Somerset, UK Posts: 336	Re: first use of a sidemount rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T) Except this joke and whatever you think about joker it is AFAIK, the first modern sidemounted Rebreather and a great idea from Fred Badier. ... That said perhaps turning a sidemounted Rebreather into a mCCR came first to Duncan Price's mind. Steady on! I have never claimed to have invented the concept of a sidemounted rebreather. In fact it was Rick Stanton who was devising a sidemounted unit for explorations in (amongst other places) Wookey Hole. Rick and Fred are good friends and I'm sure that there was a lot of exchange of ideas. Its not about competition but about collaboration. AFAIK the Joker was worn behind the diver's shoulders. At least in its original configuration. The SEBA-ATEA is a constant mass flow O2 unit. It was the final type of rebreather used by the CDG before the switch from closed circuit to open circuit diving occurred in the early 1960's. Mike Boon had already demonstrated the utility of sidemounting (open circuit) to pass constricted sumps and his 1/4's rule is probably the first gas managment strategy for overhead diving. It was only natural that CCR divers would try the same mounting technique. Rick, John Volanthen and I all put together sidemount mCCR's about the same time in early 2004 - mine first D5 underwent field trials in Florida in March of this year and Rick used his underground in France at or around the same time. I'm sure that we weren't the first.
(Offline)

26th February 2007, 12:40	#6 (permalink)
Marc T hell is in the details Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FRANCE Carcassonne Posts: 470	Re: first use of a sidemount rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price) Steady on! I have never claimed to have invented the concept of a sidemounted rebreather. In fact it was Rick Stanton who was devising a sidemounted unit for explorations in (amongst other places) Wookey Hole. Rick and Fred are good friends and I'm sure that there was a lot of exchange of ideas. Its not about competition but about collaboration. AFAIK the Joker was worn behind the diver's shoulders. At least in its original configuration. The SEBA-ATEA is a constant mass flow O2 unit. It was the final type of rebreather used by the CDG before the switch from closed circuit to open circuit diving occurred in the early 1960's. Mike Boon had already demonstrated the utility of sidemounting (open circuit) to pass constricted sumps and his 1/4's rule is probably the first gas managment strategy for overhead diving. It was only natural that CCR divers would try the same mounting technique. Rick, John Volanthen and I all put together sidemount mCCR's about the same time in early 2004 - mine first D5 underwent field trials in Florida in March of this year and Rick used his underground in France at or around the same time. I'm sure that we weren't the first. Hey cool man! Really sorry you take that as an offense, but that was a real and simple questions about 1 first cylindrical Rebreather ( perhaps RB 80 ) 2 cylindrical sidemounted Rebreather ( under or other the shoulder is not the problem ) 3 cylindrical mCCR Rebreather and I really dont know who is the first: Stanton's BOTS, Ducan Price D5 or Badier-Menniscus Joki A really Paranoïd wind blow other Rebreather World today
(Online)

26th February 2007, 14:04	#7 (permalink)
Duncan Price Sump Monster Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wells, Somerset, UK Posts: 336	Re: first use of a sidemount rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T) Hey cool man! Really sorry you take that as an offense, but that was a real and simple questions about 1 first cylindrical Rebreather ( perhaps RB 80 ) 2 cylindrical sidemounted Rebreather ( under or other the shoulder is not the problem ) 3 cylindrical mCCR Rebreather and I really dont know who is the first: Stanton's BOTS, Duncan Price D5 or Badier-Menniscus Joki A really Paranoïd wind blow other Rebreather World today No offense taken. Its not really about being first - a lot of prototypes are truely awful (I know my initial attempt at a SM rebreather was not very good). Rick Stanton, by his own admission, copied concepts from the RB80 (scrubber design) and Joker (position of counterlung) in the BOTS. I copied Rick. To return to the original post, my only reason for making it was to point out that others were exploring the same concepts 40 years ago using ex-military units. OC sidemounting won the day and it is only now that we are coming full circle. Maybe I should invent the world's first triangular rebreather and mount it up my
(Offline)

26th February 2007, 14:25	#8 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: first use of a sidemount rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price) Maybe I should invent the world's first triangular rebreather and mount it up my Zak has been doing that for years..........LMFAO! __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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26th February 2007, 14:29	#9 (permalink)
UKSteve Still a novice... Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Weymouth, UK Posts: 577	Re: first use of a sidemount rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price) Maybe I should invent the world's first triangular rebreather and mount it up my LOL...that would be the Toberlaron ( )as opposed to Megeladon then? Steve
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26th February 2007, 15:32	#10 (permalink)
Marc T hell is in the details Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FRANCE Carcassonne Posts: 470	Re: first use of a sidemount rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price) To return to the original post, my only reason for making it was to point out that others were exploring the same concepts 40 years ago using ex-military units. OC sidemounting won the day and it is only now that we are coming full circle. Maybe I should invent the world's first triangular rebreather and mount it up my Nice to see there is no problem. As say in many previous post its very easy to be misunderstood when "speaking" on the net and my response wasnt clear enough. I clearely understood what you said and why in your first post, its always interesting to see that whatether you think inventing about Rebreather it has been already invented two time ( at least ). Was a bit astonished because of no reply on an important post so tried to develop... Sidemounted Rebreather is a great step in RB which allowed some nice explorations but MORE allowed a new start in practical CCR backup. Cheers Marc T
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