Diluent leak into loop

CeeBee · 20th January 2007, 00:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Dont be silly, If he was a better f##ing diver... etc.

ATB

Mark Chase

Note:
Private Joke dont worry I reckon John got it

No ###### problem!

I ####### realised that!

It still took ###### guts to post it though....

Christine x

johnnied · 21st January 2007, 18:02

With hind sight, I should have closed the diluent cylinder much sooner & NOT relied soley on the flow stop.
So what's the verdict on the flow stop. Did it not work properly or did you not activate it properly?By the way, what happened last sunday or does this merit a new thread??John

CharlieT · 22nd January 2007, 12:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied)

With hind sight, I should have closed the diluent cylinder much sooner & NOT relied soley on the flow stop.
So what's the verdict on the flow stop. Did it not work properly or did you not activate it properly?By the way, what happened last sunday or does this merit a new thread??John

Have you got that long!

There's never a dull moment when you're diving with Jon!

I'm taking a spare rebreather for him next time

Charlie

johnnied · 25th January 2007, 22:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied)

With hind sight, I should have closed the diluent cylinder much sooner & NOT relied soley on the flow stop.
So what's the verdict on the flow stop. Did it not work properly or did you not activate it properly?By the way, what happened last sunday or does this merit a new thread??John

Actually, beyond all the joshing, this is a serious question from a novice so why doesn't it merit an answer? Come on, Ivon seems to have a negative outlook on flowstops so why won't somebody give me the benefit of their experience and tell me why flow stops shouldn't be trusted??

As a newbie, should I be mistrustful of standard adv function and also as a newbie should I not bother with the flowstop as means of stopping dil supply to a faulty adv

**PhilSiswick** · 26th January 2007, 08:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied)

Actually, beyond all the joshing, this is a serious question from a novice so why doesn't it merit an answer? Come on, Ivon seems to have a negative outlook on flowstops so why won't somebody give me the benefit of their experience and tell me why flow stops shouldn't be trusted??

As a newbie, should I be mistrustful of standard adv function and also as a newbie should I not bother with the flowstop as means of stopping dil supply to a faulty adv

As a newbie to a newbie, I guess my experience may help. I am never entirely certain that my (APD) flowstop is doing what it should. It is easy to knock open or closed and I find myself checking it fairly regularly.

Given the design, it is also possible for it to be part open or closed, so the flow rate could be restricted.

Having said that, those are relatively minor issues that can be resolved by a regular check (I close it when I get to the bottom and then only check it if I think I may have knocked it). I wouldn't want an ADV without some way to block it off.

Cheers,

CharlieT · 26th January 2007, 11:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied)

Actually, beyond all the joshing, this is a serious question from a novice so why doesn't it merit an answer? Come on, Ivon seems to have a negative outlook on flowstops so why won't somebody give me the benefit of their experience and tell me why flow stops shouldn't be trusted??

As a newbie, should I be mistrustful of standard adv function and also as a newbie should I not bother with the flowstop as means of stopping dil supply to a faulty adv

I am one of several who feel suitably ticked off

I have put an "O" with black permanent pen at the top section of my flowstop to remind me on is up and down is shut off. I found it hard to remember when I started.

Because I am not very flexible I found it very hard to operate my flowstop before I had my stainless steel backplate fitted by Martin Robson of Eau Zone when I did my IANTD Mod 3 at Dorothea last summer.

He fitted my new backplate in a way that placed my flowstop in a lower position so IF I forget to switch it on or need to turn it off, I can at least now do this readily.

When pre-breathing just take a big breath and that will trigger your ADV and confirm it's on.

I had a short period when I deliberately didn't use my ADV thinking it was better not to rely on it but it was just hard work, in comparison, to being able to have your loop volume automatically adjusted by the ADV.

Occasionally it's very nice, if you're a bit puffed, to be able to draw in a greater volume of gas. Again the ADV is an easy way to do this.

The problem Jon had during our dive on the Bessel was just one of those little numbers that happen with Jon (I say this in the nicest way!). I've now done nearly 100 hours virtually all in UK sea without any problem with my ADV and am happy to use it.

Hindsight and talking one of these harmless happenings thru on dry land is much easier than trying to work things out underwater. One of the very few occasions when we could have done with underwater comms.

These little problems are typical of diving on a rebreather and are a byproduct of their complexity compared to open circuit.

Hope this qualifies as a more helpful answer from one comparative newbie to one a month away from his course.

Charlie

***Decodiver*** · 26th January 2007, 12:00

I do not use the flowstop on the stock APD ADV.

I find it is just complicating matters and have a number of quality issues with them.

If I need to shut off the ADV then I shut off the diluent.

My suit and wing inflations are always offboard and not effected anyway.

The only time I use an APD flowstop is on the first 2 dives of an Inspiration/Evolution Mod 1 where I shut it and tape it up thus forcing the student to use the manual inflation buttons.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

**PhilSiswick** · 26th January 2007, 12:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

I do not use the flowstop on the stock APD ADV.

I find it is just complicating matters and have a number of quality issues with them.

If I need to shut off the ADV then I shut off the diluent.

My suit and wing inflations are always offboard and not effected anyway.

Interesting - makes sense if you run offboard suit and wing. I'm reasonably happy with my flowstop now that I know what it's foibles are

Quote:

The only time I use an APD flowstop is on the first 2 dives of an Inspiration/Evolution Mod 1 where I shut it and tape it up thus forcing the studet to use the manual inflation buttons.

We were on our honour not to use it on the first dives of the course. When our instructor was happy we could do it manually, he let us use the ADV.

Cheers,

jptaylor9 · 26th January 2007, 18:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied)

With hind sight, I should have closed the diluent cylinder much sooner & NOT relied soley on the flow stop.
So what's the verdict on the flow stop. Did it not work properly or did you not activate it properly?By the way, what happened last sunday or does this merit a new thread??John

I'm 99.999% sure i closed it, I reached over & slid it down. But, dil was getting into the loop, diluent cylinder emptied & it wasn't leaking from 1st stage or O/P valve as no bubbles (Charlie can confirm). Normally the flow stop works fine.

The root cause of the problem was the ADV & this is now fixed.

If I had this problem again I'd close off the diluent, just to be sure. Suit inflation is from an off board supply & I can (and do) inflate the wing from a 0.4L emergency cylinder on the RHS of the wing (optional extra).

Hope this helps...

JT

**Gill Envy** · 26th January 2007, 22:31

both of our ADV's are leaking internally, even after a fix. I'm rather frustrated. Was thinking a flow stop was the way to go until i read the feedback here. Now i'm on the fence and determined to learn, com hell or high water, to service as much of my gear as i can. It's just totally impractical to drive all the way to woodinville or send the units to the UK every time there is a little problem... particularly once we are in indonesia in march. Anyone in the seattle area know how to service an ADV and is willing to show me? It would be greatly appreciated. Or if you have an inspo or evo and are willing to send me some photos and instructions, i'd be forever greatful. Frankly, i'd fly to the UK to take a course on if only it was offered.

20th January 2007, 00:08	#11 (permalink)
CeeBee Found pills and ate them. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Liverpool Posts: 1,019	Re: Diluent leak into loop Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Dont be silly, If he was a better f##ing diver... etc. ATB Mark Chase Note: Private Joke dont worry I reckon John got it No ###### problem! I ####### realised that! It still took ###### guts to post it though.... Christine x __________________ "In Ceebs We Trust. All others pay cash." Denz 1973-2007 King of the One-Liners www.justgiving.com/markginsberg1
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21st January 2007, 18:02	#12 (permalink)
johnnied New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London Posts: 48	Re: Diluent leak into loop With hind sight, I should have closed the diluent cylinder much sooner & NOT relied soley on the flow stop. So what's the verdict on the flow stop. Did it not work properly or did you not activate it properly?By the way, what happened last sunday or does this merit a new thread??John
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22nd January 2007, 12:08	#13 (permalink)
CharlieT Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 449	Re: Diluent leak into loop Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied) With hind sight, I should have closed the diluent cylinder much sooner & NOT relied soley on the flow stop. So what's the verdict on the flow stop. Did it not work properly or did you not activate it properly?By the way, what happened last sunday or does this merit a new thread??John Have you got that long! There's never a dull moment when you're diving with Jon! I'm taking a spare rebreather for him next time Charlie
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25th January 2007, 22:47	#14 (permalink)
johnnied New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London Posts: 48	Re: Diluent leak into loop Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied) With hind sight, I should have closed the diluent cylinder much sooner & NOT relied soley on the flow stop. So what's the verdict on the flow stop. Did it not work properly or did you not activate it properly?By the way, what happened last sunday or does this merit a new thread??John Actually, beyond all the joshing, this is a serious question from a novice so why doesn't it merit an answer? Come on, Ivon seems to have a negative outlook on flowstops so why won't somebody give me the benefit of their experience and tell me why flow stops shouldn't be trusted?? As a newbie, should I be mistrustful of standard adv function and also as a newbie should I not bother with the flowstop as means of stopping dil supply to a faulty adv
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26th January 2007, 08:20	#15 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 1,002	Re: Diluent leak into loop Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied) Actually, beyond all the joshing, this is a serious question from a novice so why doesn't it merit an answer? Come on, Ivon seems to have a negative outlook on flowstops so why won't somebody give me the benefit of their experience and tell me why flow stops shouldn't be trusted?? As a newbie, should I be mistrustful of standard adv function and also as a newbie should I not bother with the flowstop as means of stopping dil supply to a faulty adv As a newbie to a newbie, I guess my experience may help. I am never entirely certain that my (APD) flowstop is doing what it should. It is easy to knock open or closed and I find myself checking it fairly regularly. Given the design, it is also possible for it to be part open or closed, so the flow rate could be restricted. Having said that, those are relatively minor issues that can be resolved by a regular check (I close it when I get to the bottom and then only check it if I think I may have knocked it). I wouldn't want an ADV without some way to block it off. Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
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26th January 2007, 11:18	#16 (permalink)
CharlieT Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 449	Re: Diluent leak into loop Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied) Actually, beyond all the joshing, this is a serious question from a novice so why doesn't it merit an answer? Come on, Ivon seems to have a negative outlook on flowstops so why won't somebody give me the benefit of their experience and tell me why flow stops shouldn't be trusted?? As a newbie, should I be mistrustful of standard adv function and also as a newbie should I not bother with the flowstop as means of stopping dil supply to a faulty adv I am one of several who feel suitably ticked off I have put an "O" with black permanent pen at the top section of my flowstop to remind me on is up and down is shut off. I found it hard to remember when I started. Because I am not very flexible I found it very hard to operate my flowstop before I had my stainless steel backplate fitted by Martin Robson of Eau Zone when I did my IANTD Mod 3 at Dorothea last summer. He fitted my new backplate in a way that placed my flowstop in a lower position so IF I forget to switch it on or need to turn it off, I can at least now do this readily. When pre-breathing just take a big breath and that will trigger your ADV and confirm it's on. I had a short period when I deliberately didn't use my ADV thinking it was better not to rely on it but it was just hard work, in comparison, to being able to have your loop volume automatically adjusted by the ADV. Occasionally it's very nice, if you're a bit puffed, to be able to draw in a greater volume of gas. Again the ADV is an easy way to do this. The problem Jon had during our dive on the Bessel was just one of those little numbers that happen with Jon (I say this in the nicest way!). I've now done nearly 100 hours virtually all in UK sea without any problem with my ADV and am happy to use it. Hindsight and talking one of these harmless happenings thru on dry land is much easier than trying to work things out underwater. One of the very few occasions when we could have done with underwater comms. These little problems are typical of diving on a rebreather and are a byproduct of their complexity compared to open circuit. Hope this qualifies as a more helpful answer from one comparative newbie to one a month away from his course. Charlie
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26th January 2007, 12:00	#17 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,181	Re: Diluent leak into loop I do not use the flowstop on the stock APD ADV. I find it is just complicating matters and have a number of quality issues with them. If I need to shut off the ADV then I shut off the diluent. My suit and wing inflations are always offboard and not effected anyway. The only time I use an APD flowstop is on the first 2 dives of an Inspiration/Evolution Mod 1 where I shut it and tape it up thus forcing the student to use the manual inflation buttons. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions Last edited by Decodiver : 26th January 2007 at 12:11.
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26th January 2007, 12:08	#18 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 1,002	Re: Diluent leak into loop Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) I do not use the flowstop on the stock APD ADV. I find it is just complicating matters and have a number of quality issues with them. If I need to shut off the ADV then I shut off the diluent. My suit and wing inflations are always offboard and not effected anyway. Interesting - makes sense if you run offboard suit and wing. I'm reasonably happy with my flowstop now that I know what it's foibles are Quote: The only time I use an APD flowstop is on the first 2 dives of an Inspiration/Evolution Mod 1 where I shut it and tape it up thus forcing the studet to use the manual inflation buttons. We were on our honour not to use it on the first dives of the course. When our instructor was happy we could do it manually, he let us use the ADV. Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
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26th January 2007, 18:40	#19 (permalink)
jptaylor9 Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 318	Re: Diluent leak into loop Quote: (Originally Posted by johnnied) With hind sight, I should have closed the diluent cylinder much sooner & NOT relied soley on the flow stop. So what's the verdict on the flow stop. Did it not work properly or did you not activate it properly?By the way, what happened last sunday or does this merit a new thread??John I'm 99.999% sure i closed it, I reached over & slid it down. But, dil was getting into the loop, diluent cylinder emptied & it wasn't leaking from 1st stage or O/P valve as no bubbles (Charlie can confirm). Normally the flow stop works fine. The root cause of the problem was the ADV & this is now fixed. If I had this problem again I'd close off the diluent, just to be sure. Suit inflation is from an off board supply & I can (and do) inflate the wing from a 0.4L emergency cylinder on the RHS of the wing (optional extra). Hope this helps... JT
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26th January 2007, 22:31	#20 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,315	Re: Diluent leak into loop both of our ADV's are leaking internally, even after a fix. I'm rather frustrated. Was thinking a flow stop was the way to go until i read the feedback here. Now i'm on the fence and determined to learn, com hell or high water, to service as much of my gear as i can. It's just totally impractical to drive all the way to woodinville or send the units to the UK every time there is a little problem... particularly once we are in indonesia in march. Anyone in the seattle area know how to service an ADV and is willing to show me? It would be greatly appreciated. Or if you have an inspo or evo and are willing to send me some photos and instructions, i'd be forever greatful. Frankly, i'd fly to the UK to take a course on if only it was offered. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°> Last edited by Gill Envy : 26th January 2007 at 22:33.
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