Read and Learn......

PeteS · 15th January 2007, 09:02

Well Guys, At last I have closure, I hope the others involved will find the same from this.

CDNN :: Diver Error Cause of Rebreather Scuba Diving Fatality

JonnyB · 15th January 2007, 13:02

Yes, its good to get a report, but if i am not reading the thing totally wrong, i do get the feeling that there are two different reasons for this accident.
1. He forgot to turn on the O2 bottle.
2. He forgot to turn on the displays.

Remember guys, plan the dive and dive the plan. The 5 minutes it is going to take you to do an immediate predive check might save your life and save your loved ones from alot of grief.
/Jonny

Jim · 15th January 2007, 13:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

Yes, its good to get a report, but if i am not reading the thing totally wrong, i do get the feeling that there are two different reasons for this accident.
1. He forgot to turn on the O2 bottle.
2. He forgot to turn on the displays.

Remember guys, plan the dive and dive the plan. The 5 minutes it is going to take you to do an immediate predive check might save your life and save your loved ones from alot of grief.
/Jonny

Hmmmm,

A little ambiguous,'oxygen providing rebreather equipment' could (and probably does) imply just the hand sets.

My two concerns here then (and I talk from experience) would be handsets swithing themselves off (bounce) ...... know your PPO2 aside.

and ..... where a rebreather goes to confirm it was working prefectly well .... the manufacturer?! An independent would be my preferred option for an unbiased report.

No disrespect intended to anyone.

PeteS · 15th January 2007, 16:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jim)

Hmmmm,

A little ambiguous,'oxygen providing rebreather equipment' could (and probably does) imply just the hand sets.

My two concerns here then (and I talk from experience) would be handsets swithing themselves off (bounce) ...... know your PPO2 aside.

and ..... where a rebreather goes to confirm it was working prefectly well .... the manufacturer?! An independent would be my preferred option for an unbiased report.

No disrespect intended to anyone.

The report from the coroner is accurate.

And the Police know diddly squat about Rebreather's.

**Gill Envy** · 15th January 2007, 21:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jim)

Hmmmm,

A little ambiguous,'oxygen providing rebreather equipment' could (and probably does) imply just the hand sets.

My two concerns here then (and I talk from experience) would be handsets swithing themselves off (bounce) ...... know your PPO2 aside.

and ..... where a rebreather goes to confirm it was working prefectly well .... the manufacturer?! An independent would be my preferred option for an unbiased report.

No disrespect intended to anyone.

good points.

as for the first one, the known battery bounce issue that has come up does seem to leave this possibility open and unresolvable unless AP or family were to release the log...if there is any log of that dive then he turned the handset on.

on the second point, better protocal would be to have it first inspected by an objective third party but is there truly such a person in such a small niche. Certainly in this case a log of the dive would be very telling at the very least.

**Gill Envy** · 15th January 2007, 21:13

"The report noted Mr Lees was an experienced diver and methodical in the maintenance of his equipment."

Assuming he did not turn the unit on, let this be a reminder for us all that no matter what our level of experience we should assume we are not immune to such mistakes and if anything should become even more vigilant of even the mundane as we become more experienced and familiar with our gear to offset the relaxed confidence that comes with time.

**PhilSiswick** · 15th January 2007, 21:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

good points.

as for the first one, the known battery bounce issue that has come up does seem to leave this possibility open and unresolvable unless AP or family were to release the log...if there is any log of that dive then he turned the handset on.

Even if that had happened, wouldn't proper protocol have ensured that the problem was spotted? It didn't sound like a deep dive, so even if the unit bounced, it would have been a while before the O2 decayed.

Said without prejudice - whatever the cause, this is a real tragedy as someone has died leaving unanswered questions and no explanations.

Quote:

on the second point, better protocal would be to have it first inspected by an objective third party but is there truly such a person in such a small niche. Certainly in this case a log of the dive would be very telling at the very least.

Well said - without letting in the dead hand of the law, we are not going to get an objective third party in this industry.

Cheers,

Dave & Sandy · 15th January 2007, 22:17

If the batteries bounced but the unit was switched on by the user the switches would still be in the on position. If the unit wasn't switched on by the user the switches would be in the off position.

You need to breathing from the loop and watching those little numbers going up and down on the boat and as you hit the water you've gotta be looking at those handsets to check that the numbers are still moving. Unfortunately, we are human, not perfect and do make mistakes, regardless of experience. Sometimes we pay a heavy price for forgetting a couple of checks.

diverrob · 15th January 2007, 23:22

[quoteWell said - without letting in the dead hand of the law, we are not going to get an objective third party in this industry.[/quote]

I disagree, In Canada the civilian authorities have used the military to inspect diving gear from accidents in the local area and even at times ship the gear to our Experimental unit for further analyst. This seems to be a objective third party with nothing to gain/lose from telling the truth.

Rob

PeteS · 16th January 2007, 05:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

good points.

as for the first one, the known battery bounce issue that has come up does seem to leave this possibility open and unresolvable unless AP or family were to release the log...if there is any log of that dive then he turned the handset on.

on the second point, better protocal would be to have it first inspected by an objective third party but is there truly such a person in such a small niche. Certainly in this case a log of the dive would be very telling at the very least.

I said that the coroners report was accurate. So why can't you just take it at that?

This type of questioning is the reason you don't get more people giving out information.

1/ You are presented with known facts, and then you try to start a debate based upon inaccurate conjecture.

2/ You are challenging the facts that I, and others, saw, and the coroners decision that agreed.

As for the dive log? It wouldn't make any difference at all.

15th January 2007, 09:02	#1 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 532	Read and Learn...... Well Guys, At last I have closure, I hope the others involved will find the same from this. CDNN :: Diver Error Cause of Rebreather Scuba Diving Fatality __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
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15th January 2007, 13:02	#2 (permalink)
JonnyB Johnny The Hatch Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Titan Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden (Stockholm)/Cyprus(Ayia Napa) Posts: 975	Re: Read and Learn...... Yes, its good to get a report, but if i am not reading the thing totally wrong, i do get the feeling that there are two different reasons for this accident. 1. He forgot to turn on the O2 bottle. 2. He forgot to turn on the displays. Remember guys, plan the dive and dive the plan. The 5 minutes it is going to take you to do an immediate predive check might save your life and save your loved ones from alot of grief. /Jonny __________________ A quote from Crazyduck - In remembering our own Rob Davies. "Outbound flight 777 heavy you are cleared for flight Due west into that warm red Texas sunset You have angels on your wings and divers memories on your six." Rest In Peace http://www.divetekcyprus.com http://www.diveccr.com
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15th January 2007, 13:47	#3 (permalink)
Jim Lovable Cockhead ! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Purley, UK Posts: 145	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB) Yes, its good to get a report, but if i am not reading the thing totally wrong, i do get the feeling that there are two different reasons for this accident. 1. He forgot to turn on the O2 bottle. 2. He forgot to turn on the displays. Remember guys, plan the dive and dive the plan. The 5 minutes it is going to take you to do an immediate predive check might save your life and save your loved ones from alot of grief. /Jonny Hmmmm, A little ambiguous,'oxygen providing rebreather equipment' could (and probably does) imply just the hand sets. My two concerns here then (and I talk from experience) would be handsets swithing themselves off (bounce) ...... know your PPO2 aside. and ..... where a rebreather goes to confirm it was working prefectly well .... the manufacturer?! An independent would be my preferred option for an unbiased report. No disrespect intended to anyone. __________________ Jim Spence
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15th January 2007, 16:25	#4 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 532	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Jim) Hmmmm, A little ambiguous,'oxygen providing rebreather equipment' could (and probably does) imply just the hand sets. My two concerns here then (and I talk from experience) would be handsets swithing themselves off (bounce) ...... know your PPO2 aside. and ..... where a rebreather goes to confirm it was working prefectly well .... the manufacturer?! An independent would be my preferred option for an unbiased report. No disrespect intended to anyone. The report from the coroner is accurate. And the Police know diddly squat about Rebreather's. __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
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15th January 2007, 21:10	#5 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,326	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Jim) Hmmmm, A little ambiguous,'oxygen providing rebreather equipment' could (and probably does) imply just the hand sets. My two concerns here then (and I talk from experience) would be handsets swithing themselves off (bounce) ...... know your PPO2 aside. and ..... where a rebreather goes to confirm it was working prefectly well .... the manufacturer?! An independent would be my preferred option for an unbiased report. No disrespect intended to anyone. good points. as for the first one, the known battery bounce issue that has come up does seem to leave this possibility open and unresolvable unless AP or family were to release the log...if there is any log of that dive then he turned the handset on. on the second point, better protocal would be to have it first inspected by an objective third party but is there truly such a person in such a small niche. Certainly in this case a log of the dive would be very telling at the very least. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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15th January 2007, 21:13	#6 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,326	Re: Read and Learn...... "The report noted Mr Lees was an experienced diver and methodical in the maintenance of his equipment." Assuming he did not turn the unit on, let this be a reminder for us all that no matter what our level of experience we should assume we are not immune to such mistakes and if anything should become even more vigilant of even the mundane as we become more experienced and familiar with our gear to offset the relaxed confidence that comes with time. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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15th January 2007, 21:18	#7 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 991	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) good points. as for the first one, the known battery bounce issue that has come up does seem to leave this possibility open and unresolvable unless AP or family were to release the log...if there is any log of that dive then he turned the handset on. Even if that had happened, wouldn't proper protocol have ensured that the problem was spotted? It didn't sound like a deep dive, so even if the unit bounced, it would have been a while before the O2 decayed. Said without prejudice - whatever the cause, this is a real tragedy as someone has died leaving unanswered questions and no explanations. Quote: on the second point, better protocal would be to have it first inspected by an objective third party but is there truly such a person in such a small niche. Certainly in this case a log of the dive would be very telling at the very least. Well said - without letting in the dead hand of the law, we are not going to get an objective third party in this industry. Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
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15th January 2007, 22:17	#8 (permalink)
Dave & Sandy New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 99	Re: Read and Learn...... If the batteries bounced but the unit was switched on by the user the switches would still be in the on position. If the unit wasn't switched on by the user the switches would be in the off position. You need to breathing from the loop and watching those little numbers going up and down on the boat and as you hit the water you've gotta be looking at those handsets to check that the numbers are still moving. Unfortunately, we are human, not perfect and do make mistakes, regardless of experience. Sometimes we pay a heavy price for forgetting a couple of checks. __________________ Cheers, Dave & Sandy Atvar shows Dave & Sandy testing their new habitat 101 and home build RBMK69's Last edited by Dave & Sandy : 15th January 2007 at 22:32.
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15th January 2007, 23:22	#9 (permalink)
diverrob The Evolution of Diving Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other SCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Victoria BC Canada Posts: 336	Re: Read and Learn...... [quoteWell said - without letting in the dead hand of the law, we are not going to get an objective third party in this industry.[/quote] I disagree, In Canada the civilian authorities have used the military to inspect diving gear from accidents in the local area and even at times ship the gear to our Experimental unit for further analyst. This seems to be a objective third party with nothing to gain/lose from telling the truth. Rob
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16th January 2007, 05:02	#10 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 532	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) good points. as for the first one, the known battery bounce issue that has come up does seem to leave this possibility open and unresolvable unless AP or family were to release the log...if there is any log of that dive then he turned the handset on. on the second point, better protocal would be to have it first inspected by an objective third party but is there truly such a person in such a small niche. Certainly in this case a log of the dive would be very telling at the very least. I said that the coroners report was accurate. So why can't you just take it at that? This type of questioning is the reason you don't get more people giving out information. 1/ You are presented with known facts, and then you try to start a debate based upon inaccurate conjecture. 2/ You are challenging the facts that I, and others, saw, and the coroners decision that agreed. As for the dive log? It wouldn't make any difference at all. __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
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