Read and Learn......

CharlieT · 17th January 2007, 10:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS)

Well now the thread has returned to noramality (whatever that is), I hope that if one person who has read this report stays alive because of it, then I will have hit the target.

Now some of this is my conjecture in that I cannot actually know what happened underwater, and some is fact:-

Nigel died because he was distracted from the dive. He had a new suit and was thinking about that, not the dive. Come to think of it, it wasn't a dive, it was actually a bouyancy check for the new suit. In 15m of water. He made an elementary mistake of not turning the control system on, (he had done a prebreathe etc 20 minutes before and then shut down the unit while suiting up) and I think he compounded that by not looking at his displays when he was in the water. I know he didn't turn on the power because when we recovered the body, the switches were in the OFF position. Unfortunately he's not the first to die like this, and I doubt he'll be the last.

So, you see how easy it is to die. On a 15m piddle about checking how much lead you need.

So, no matter what you are doing, check your PPO2. If you get distracted, if you stop thinking about what you are breathing, you die. Simple. Just don't let it be you. I really wouldn't want one of you guys to be doing CPR on a body while the Widow looks on. I have never felt so inadequate in my life.

So, next you you are out having a great dive, every time you look at your gauges, just say "Thanks Nigel". If that's his legacy, it's a good one. But I'd rather he was here to tell you himself.

Thank you, Pete, for providing us with these facts. It is so very rare for the facts to be made available and there are clear lessons to be learnt, albeit unfortunately not new ones.

Was solo diving a factor here? I presume Nigel was on his own?

I am sorry that you also had to go through what you did. Not easy for you either.

Charlie

webhead · 17th January 2007, 11:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

Perhaps another feature that should be added to computers would be tank pressure indicators so that an alarm would ring before hose IP drops to nil, giving the diver time to turn the tank on.

Now that is a good idea. With all these "new" computers with integrated tank pressure (wired or wireless), it would make sense that one could be connected to the LP line that feeds the O2 solenoid and the ADV. No reason that it couldn't be added inline before the solenoid as part of the electronics package.

***EBT*** · 17th January 2007, 11:56

For me theres two lessons from this and they should just be reminders;

1. You can drown in a puddle, and a rebreather is just a posh plastic bag. All dives need you to be alert.
2. Always be vigilant, never assume.

Bum deal stegs, at least you tried.

***Decodiver*** · 17th January 2007, 12:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by UKSteve)

Deperately sad and tragic...

.. and now, hopefully this next bit is considered to be back on thread...does anyone know if any current production eCCRs or aftermarket heads have electronics that switch on automatically if placed at say 10ft water pressure when in the off position (as most Dive computers do)?

Hi Steve, the Ouroboros does.

Cheers,

Dave.

***Decodiver*** · 17th January 2007, 12:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS)

So, no matter what you are doing, check your PPO2. If you get distracted, if you stop thinking about what you are breathing, you die. Simple. Just don't let it be you. I really wouldn't want one of you guys to be doing CPR on a body while the Widow looks on. I have never felt so inadequate in my life.

So, next you you are out having a great dive, every time you look at your gauges, just say "Thanks Nigel". If that's his legacy, it's a good one. But I'd rather he was here to tell you himself.

Perhaps the most pertinent and informative thing I have read in a long while.

***Decodiver*** · 17th January 2007, 12:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT)

You can drown in a puddle

This is so true, I was asked awhile back by someone what I considered to be a deep dive.

One where if you stand up your head is not above the surface, was my reply.

We ain't supposed to be there, it ain't our environment.

Please lets all take care and have a 2007 without fatalities, that is my wish for this year & of course rich & welath to you all too.

delidiver · 17th January 2007, 21:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

This is so true, I was asked awhile back by someone what I considered to be a deep dive.

One where if you stand up your head is not above the surface, was my reply.

We ain't supposed to be there, it ain't our environment.

Please lets all take care and have a 2007 without fatalities, that is my wish for this year & of course rich & wealth to you all too.

So True that it is worth reading twice!

LB

***schford*** · 17th January 2007, 21:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Hi Steve, the Ouroboros does.

Cheers,

Dave.

Ye the Meg and shearwater adn the hammerhead to.

Funny thing is I dont think the KISS does and it has never had any problems.......

Stuart

***EBT*** · 17th January 2007, 23:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Funny thing is I dont think the KISS does and it has never had any problems.......

My PERSONAL view is again... vigilance. The KISS is a nice bit of kit, but fundamentally its attracting people with a mindset of mistrust.

I may be a cynic, but cynics have a longer life expectancy than optimists....

UKSteve · 17th January 2007, 23:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Ye the Meg and shearwater adn the hammerhead to.

Funny thing is I dont think the KISS does and it has never had any problems.......

Stuart

Stuart ... dont you have to switch the Meg on inside the head first??

Steve

17th January 2007, 10:16	#21 (permalink)
CharlieT Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 449	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS) Well now the thread has returned to noramality (whatever that is), I hope that if one person who has read this report stays alive because of it, then I will have hit the target. Now some of this is my conjecture in that I cannot actually know what happened underwater, and some is fact:- Nigel died because he was distracted from the dive. He had a new suit and was thinking about that, not the dive. Come to think of it, it wasn't a dive, it was actually a bouyancy check for the new suit. In 15m of water. He made an elementary mistake of not turning the control system on, (he had done a prebreathe etc 20 minutes before and then shut down the unit while suiting up) and I think he compounded that by not looking at his displays when he was in the water. I know he didn't turn on the power because when we recovered the body, the switches were in the OFF position. Unfortunately he's not the first to die like this, and I doubt he'll be the last. So, you see how easy it is to die. On a 15m piddle about checking how much lead you need. So, no matter what you are doing, check your PPO2. If you get distracted, if you stop thinking about what you are breathing, you die. Simple. Just don't let it be you. I really wouldn't want one of you guys to be doing CPR on a body while the Widow looks on. I have never felt so inadequate in my life. So, next you you are out having a great dive, every time you look at your gauges, just say "Thanks Nigel". If that's his legacy, it's a good one. But I'd rather he was here to tell you himself. Thank you, Pete, for providing us with these facts. It is so very rare for the facts to be made available and there are clear lessons to be learnt, albeit unfortunately not new ones. Was solo diving a factor here? I presume Nigel was on his own? I am sorry that you also had to go through what you did. Not easy for you either. Charlie
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17th January 2007, 11:30	#22 (permalink)
webhead Earning the green stuff.. Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: East central Florida Posts: 283	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) Perhaps another feature that should be added to computers would be tank pressure indicators so that an alarm would ring before hose IP drops to nil, giving the diver time to turn the tank on. Now that is a good idea. With all these "new" computers with integrated tank pressure (wired or wireless), it would make sense that one could be connected to the LP line that feeds the O2 solenoid and the ADV. No reason that it couldn't be added inline before the solenoid as part of the electronics package. __________________ "These are not the droids you are looking for.... move along" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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17th January 2007, 11:56	#23 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,932	Re: Read and Learn...... For me theres two lessons from this and they should just be reminders; 1. You can drown in a puddle, and a rebreather is just a posh plastic bag. All dives need you to be alert. 2. Always be vigilant, never assume. Bum deal stegs, at least you tried. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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17th January 2007, 12:37	#24 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by UKSteve) Deperately sad and tragic... .. and now, hopefully this next bit is considered to be back on thread...does anyone know if any current production eCCRs or aftermarket heads have electronics that switch on automatically if placed at say 10ft water pressure when in the off position (as most Dive computers do)? Hi Steve, the Ouroboros does. Cheers, Dave. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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17th January 2007, 12:39	#25 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS) So, no matter what you are doing, check your PPO2. If you get distracted, if you stop thinking about what you are breathing, you die. Simple. Just don't let it be you. I really wouldn't want one of you guys to be doing CPR on a body while the Widow looks on. I have never felt so inadequate in my life. So, next you you are out having a great dive, every time you look at your gauges, just say "Thanks Nigel". If that's his legacy, it's a good one. But I'd rather he was here to tell you himself. Perhaps the most pertinent and informative thing I have read in a long while. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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17th January 2007, 12:42	#26 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT) You can drown in a puddle This is so true, I was asked awhile back by someone what I considered to be a deep dive. One where if you stand up your head is not above the surface, was my reply. We ain't supposed to be there, it ain't our environment. Please lets all take care and have a 2007 without fatalities, that is my wish for this year & of course rich & welath to you all too. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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17th January 2007, 21:06	#27 (permalink)
delidiver DELIDIVER Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Merion, PA USA Posts: 47	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) This is so true, I was asked awhile back by someone what I considered to be a deep dive. One where if you stand up your head is not above the surface, was my reply. We ain't supposed to be there, it ain't our environment. Please lets all take care and have a 2007 without fatalities, that is my wish for this year & of course rich & wealth to you all too. So True that it is worth reading twice! LB __________________ Dive Safe & Dive Often!
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17th January 2007, 21:52	#28 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,673	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Hi Steve, the Ouroboros does. Cheers, Dave. Ye the Meg and shearwater adn the hammerhead to. Funny thing is I dont think the KISS does and it has never had any problems....... Stuart __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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17th January 2007, 23:12	#29 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,932	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Funny thing is I dont think the KISS does and it has never had any problems....... My PERSONAL view is again... vigilance. The KISS is a nice bit of kit, but fundamentally its attracting people with a mindset of mistrust. I may be a cynic, but cynics have a longer life expectancy than optimists.... __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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17th January 2007, 23:16	#30 (permalink)
UKSteve Still a novice... Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Weymouth, UK Posts: 577	Re: Read and Learn...... Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Ye the Meg and shearwater adn the hammerhead to. Funny thing is I dont think the KISS does and it has never had any problems....... Stuart Stuart ... dont you have to switch the Meg on inside the head first?? Steve
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