Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities

***schford*** · 3rd January 2007, 00:38

This thread is to discuss my article on how we can minimise our chances of ending up another Rebreather fatility statistic.

I would ask that we keep the discussion focussed on diving practices.

I hope that you find it useful and I look forward to feedback so I can expand on it as needed.

Stuart

Captain Randy · 3rd January 2007, 00:59

Completly agree with bailout as the first best option.

Randy

Gilles · 3rd January 2007, 01:08

I realize many eCCR 'ers don't like this. As mentioned, habitually use your eCCR as mCCR, with the "e" as back-up. I use the sound of the solenoid going-off as an alarm indicating insufficient attention to PO2. It works

.

Much has to do with not complying to procedures (likewise occurs in HSE incidents in the oil industry). Emphasis on pre-dive checking and check-list utilization. I recall this as one of the "7-Sins" (see library)

Cell checking under-pressure. I wonder if an improvement could be made/designed that avoids removal/disconnection of the cells from the head. Makes everything more simple and test the unit leccies at the same time.

Installation of BOV/FFM could be considered a recomendation (don't have one yet but thinking about it).

May 2007 be fatality free!!!

curt · 3rd January 2007, 01:27

Excellent article, Stuart!

May I use this for my students?

cheers...

***schford*** · 3rd January 2007, 01:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by curt)

Excellent article, Stuart!

May I use this for my students?

cheers...

Yup no problems at all.

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 3rd January 2007, 03:19

Thanks for the article.

Might I add: Maintain your equipment. I just sent in my equipment for annual service per manufacturer's instructions despite working perfectly. Probably not a good idea to keep using your equipment until it starts to have problems.

Mixaddict · 3rd January 2007, 05:24

Stuart,

At first read, your article seems overly simplistic, but you have hit the nail right on the head. Follow these simple principals and 99% of the time, you will solve whatever problem is ailing you on your breather!

Thanks for the reminder of really how simple it really is, if we just follow the procedures!

Thanks for sharing.

Regards,
Randy

jptaylor9 · 3rd January 2007, 06:58

Don't agree with all the points you raised; fly the unit manually! If I'd wanted to do that, I'd have bought a Meg

JT

PCDiver · 3rd January 2007, 07:18

Hi Stuart,

great article.

My comments:
Bailout via open loop as prefered method.
I doubt that open loop breathing, which has higher WOB than a BOV or normal regulator, can be used in case of a CO2 hit. In case of a CO2 hit you will initially overbreath even the best regulator. Any extra WOB is not wanted and will increase the problem. For me a BOV is the preferred solution.

eCCR as a parachute only (flying it manually)
Flying an eCCR manualy has a higher task load than mCCR. Manualy operating the eCCR certainly needs to be practiced as a skill in case something happens to the solenoid, but as SOP?

You don't have the continous flow that you get with a mCCR. Therefore, there wil bel more deviations from the setpoint, since more manual interventions are required. So, if you are diving without integrated deco computer, how valid will your deco profile be?

I bought rebreathers for deep filming. In my case, manual operation is almost impossible. I have only two hands and both of those are on my camera. But even without camera, I run my Vision on automatic (except during long deco stops). It allows me to enjoy my dive more.

Peter

AD_ward9 · 3rd January 2007, 07:37

Your article is excellent! Especially, highlighting do not head for the surface if you have a problem. Bail out first.

This is such a good synopsis, I must ask, do you have any objection to companies incorporating it verbatim in their manuals? E.g. declaring it as being under GNU type copyright release.

Alex

3rd January 2007, 00:38	#1 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,660	Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities This thread is to discuss my article on how we can minimise our chances of ending up another Rebreather fatility statistic. I would ask that we keep the discussion focussed on diving practices. I hope that you find it useful and I look forward to feedback so I can expand on it as needed. Stuart __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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3rd January 2007, 00:59	#2 (permalink)
Captain Randy New Member Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 44	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Completly agree with bailout as the first best option. Randy
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3rd January 2007, 01:08	#3 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 761	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities I realize many eCCR 'ers don't like this. As mentioned, habitually use your eCCR as mCCR, with the "e" as back-up. I use the sound of the solenoid going-off as an alarm indicating insufficient attention to PO2. It works . Much has to do with not complying to procedures (likewise occurs in HSE incidents in the oil industry). Emphasis on pre-dive checking and check-list utilization. I recall this as one of the "7-Sins" (see library) Cell checking under-pressure. I wonder if an improvement could be made/designed that avoids removal/disconnection of the cells from the head. Makes everything more simple and test the unit leccies at the same time. Installation of BOV/FFM could be considered a recomendation (don't have one yet but thinking about it). May 2007 be fatality free!!! __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com Last edited by Gilles : 3rd January 2007 at 06:31.
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3rd January 2007, 01:27	#4 (permalink)
curt New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rockville, MD USA Posts: 81	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Excellent article, Stuart! May I use this for my students? cheers... __________________ Curt Harpold US Representative Rebreathers Australia http://rebreathers.com.au/
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3rd January 2007, 01:42	#5 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,660	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by curt) Excellent article, Stuart! May I use this for my students? cheers... Yup no problems at all. __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
(Offline)

3rd January 2007, 03:19	#6 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,890	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Thanks for the article. Might I add: Maintain your equipment. I just sent in my equipment for annual service per manufacturer's instructions despite working perfectly. Probably not a good idea to keep using your equipment until it starts to have problems. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com Last edited by ScubaDadMiami : 3rd January 2007 at 03:23. Reason: Adding: Maintain Your Equipment.
(Online)

3rd January 2007, 05:24	#7 (permalink)
Mixaddict Always Learning! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Draper, Utah USA Posts: 414	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Stuart, At first read, your article seems overly simplistic, but you have hit the nail right on the head. Follow these simple principals and 99% of the time, you will solve whatever problem is ailing you on your breather! Thanks for the reminder of really how simple it really is, if we just follow the procedures! Thanks for sharing. Regards, Randy __________________ Randy Thornton (MixAddict) Inspiration, Evolution,Hammerhead & Sentinel CCR Instructor
(Online)

3rd January 2007, 06:58	#8 (permalink)
jptaylor9 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 303	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Don't agree with all the points you raised; fly the unit manually! If I'd wanted to do that, I'd have bought a Meg JT
(Online)

3rd January 2007, 07:18	#9 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 879	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Hi Stuart, great article. My comments: Bailout via open loop as prefered method. I doubt that open loop breathing, which has higher WOB than a BOV or normal regulator, can be used in case of a CO2 hit. In case of a CO2 hit you will initially overbreath even the best regulator. Any extra WOB is not wanted and will increase the problem. For me a BOV is the preferred solution. eCCR as a parachute only (flying it manually) Flying an eCCR manualy has a higher task load than mCCR. Manualy operating the eCCR certainly needs to be practiced as a skill in case something happens to the solenoid, but as SOP? You don't have the continous flow that you get with a mCCR. Therefore, there wil bel more deviations from the setpoint, since more manual interventions are required. So, if you are diving without integrated deco computer, how valid will your deco profile be? I bought rebreathers for deep filming. In my case, manual operation is almost impossible. I have only two hands and both of those are on my camera. But even without camera, I run my Vision on automatic (except during long deco stops). It allows me to enjoy my dive more. Peter
(Offline)

3rd January 2007, 07:37	#10 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,553	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Your article is excellent! Especially, highlighting do not head for the surface if you have a problem. Bail out first. This is such a good synopsis, I must ask, do you have any objection to companies incorporating it verbatim in their manuals? E.g. declaring it as being under GNU type copyright release. Alex
(Offline)

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