Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities

Nailer99

Wow. I just paid for my COPIS Meg, don't start training until November, but I just discovered the library here, and I'm blown away by the wealth of usefull information available on this site. Thanks to everyone who contributed, and extra thanks to Stuart for this excellent article! This "discussion" thread has been enlightening as well, but, mostly, thanks for the article!

sosha

I realize I'm reviving an old thread, but, as a fairly new KISS diver, I've got to ask a question.

Stuart, you say, " I was unable to identify a single fatality that occurred when a unit was being flown manually."

Are you saying that you have never heard of a fatality of a manually controlled Rebreather, such as the KISS?

Thanks for the site, and all of the fantastic information.

Patty

EBT

The KISS has had a few close calls, some from hardware problems, some from mushwear problems (grey matter still seems to have bugs).... however so far Im not aware of a single fatality.

Lets hope it remains that way, whilst not massively statistically significant it is certainly interesting. Theres other threads on the forum debating 'why' this may be the case. Its worth reading them to get a feel for things....

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Mark Chase

Its only a matter of time but it would appear that replacing the air bag with a sharp 6" spike in the middle of the stearing wheel does make people drive more safely.

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Mark

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Nailer99

That made me laugh- almost spilled my beer, as a matter of fact! Thanks, Chasey. To the op- yes, as a matter of fact, there are no documented fatalities on mCCR....yet. (knock on wood.) And I'll be damned if I'm going to be the first one. One possible explanation for this is that there are way more eCCR divers and units out there than mCCR........another is that hypoxia is one of the major culprits, and the constant 02 flow in an mCCR is a huge safety factor for us mCCR types (I dive a COPIS Meg). Yet another is what Chasey alludes to in his hillarious reply.....the diver's knowledge that there is no computer taking care of the p02 in the loop, and the increased vigillance that knowledge implies. I, personally, believe it's a combination of all 3 factors.

tele

With the thread being "Minimizing Rebreather Deaths" I'd like to throw out two ideas for discussion.

1st, what about tank valves that have an absolute position sensor that plugs into the computer. This would allow the computer to be able to warn if the tank is off. Of course it should be possible to detect gas at the injection solenoid. In the case of the tank valves, perhaps optical.

I realize proper procedure and protocol will eliminate this issue, but it continues to be a problem. And I can't help but try to think of ways to cut down risks.

2nd, what about automatic fail over to OC in the event of a catastrophic alarm condition? In situations where it's usable?

(Go easy, I just brainstorm :-)

Dsix36

My personal thoughts on anything to monitor tank valve position is "Just turn them on".

I have had 3 different times when my O2 was off. The first was on my second training dive. I halfassed accussed my instructor of shutting my O2 off as a test. The second time was the very next weekend. The third time was the second dive of the next day.

It turned out that my valve was being "rolled off" between dives while on the boat. It was never any issue at all. PO2 is not staying up, solenoid firing, no O2, check guages, check valve, open valve. It sounds like a lot of steps, but it was just second nature. On the 3rd instance, I noticed it while at the back of the boat, then it was DIVE DIVE DIVE, I dealt with it during the descent.

I learned to add a couple of extra checks to my checklist for any subsequent dives and have never had a problem since.

I think that any eCCR diver should be able to deal with flying manually just as naturally as relying on the computers to control setpoint.

It just seems like you would be adding another failure point to the system.

I may be an idiot, but this is my 2 cents.

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Mike Costanzo

Great article.

I agree, OC bailout first option. Recompose, get back on loop, try to resolve problem, if can't, OC bailout, abort dive.

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Mike

jmurba

Hi,

a rebreather must pre-breathed on the boat, if the o2 tap is not open you will collapse...but on the boat.
if you add something automatic to detect something you will have failed to do, you will one day have to install an automatic way to check the system that is supposed to detect your errors and an other system to check this system etc etc...


regards

jean mi

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