Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities

**Dave Sutton** · 7th January 2007, 01:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

damn - guess I must be an internet diver then

Errr.... that actually *wasn't* addressed to you.... far from it. Sorry if you thought so.

Interesting about the 15 solenoid, since I dive the same solenoid. Never have had a problem with any of my (3) Mark-15's, however I always let 'em run as designed. The more this stuff is used the better it works.

Dave

Drmike · 7th January 2007, 04:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

The more this stuff is used the better it works.

yup that was my point (and experience)

***jradomski*** · 7th January 2007, 04:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I said that many moons ago, and glad to see more people are taking that view now...

Since there are very few Meg instructors around relative to other units, and just about 99% of them were trained by Leon (except for the recent one by Cedric), I would tend to think it came from the same source. Could be wrong though...

There were more than a few meg instructors that were made prior to Leon cancelling all the other IT ratings..

decoweenie · 7th January 2007, 04:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

There were more than a few meg instructors that were made prior to Leon cancelling all the other IT ratings..

Could you expand on that please ?

***jradomski*** · 7th January 2007, 05:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Could you expand on that please ?

I can think of 2 early instructors that were not certified my Leon and another about 2-3 years ago (not sure really how many were done this way but they are out there).. One I know has been back to the factory frequently (hint hint) but one I know has not... There are also a few instructors down in florida that I don't think were certified by leon..

dive2dive2000 · 7th January 2007, 05:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

I can think of 2 early instructors that were not certified my Leon and another about 2-3 years ago (not sure really how many were done this way but they are out there).. One I know has been back to the factory frequently (hint hint) but one I know has not... There are also a few instructors down in florida that I don't think were certified by leon..

What are their names, and who certified them? Why would Leon (ISC) advocate this?

***jradomski*** · 7th January 2007, 06:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000)

What are their names, and who certified them? Why would Leon (ISC) advocate this?

AT the beginning there were other ITs.. This only changed a few years ago..

decoweenie · 7th January 2007, 06:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

AT the beginning there were other ITs.. This only changed a few years ago..

I believe this is in-line with what Ron has mentioned, Leon is the only IT on the Meg which means a visit to US is required for x-over.

**jmurba** · 7th January 2007, 06:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by cys)

I have personally observed a KISS valve fail in a way that resulted in delivery of double the amount of O2 through the leak (e.g., a change from 1 lpm to 2 lpm). The following words from the Jetsam website are relevant: "A key point to remember is that everything eventually fails."

The must not hav ben responsible for that, the IP reg must have increased, it happened to me but with an overpresure valvel tum just above the kiss valve pressure you wouldnot have increased your flow rate .

***jradomski*** · 7th January 2007, 06:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

The must not hav ben responsible for that, the IP reg must have increased, it happened to me but with an overpresure valvel tum just above the kiss valve pressure you wouldnot have increased your flow rate .

I common failure is a failure of the oring which will allow much more oxygen to pass than anticipated.. The original SS valves needed oring replacement about every 6 months of use, the newer moldedunits are much easier on the orings..

7th January 2007, 01:06	#131 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,674	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) damn - guess I must be an internet diver then Errr.... that actually wasn't addressed to you.... far from it. Sorry if you thought so. Interesting about the 15 solenoid, since I dive the same solenoid. Never have had a problem with any of my (3) Mark-15's, however I always let 'em run as designed. The more this stuff is used the better it works. Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
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7th January 2007, 04:26	#132 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) The more this stuff is used the better it works. yup that was my point (and experience) __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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7th January 2007, 04:41	#133 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,015	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I said that many moons ago, and glad to see more people are taking that view now... Since there are very few Meg instructors around relative to other units, and just about 99% of them were trained by Leon (except for the recent one by Cedric), I would tend to think it came from the same source. Could be wrong though... There were more than a few meg instructors that were made prior to Leon cancelling all the other IT ratings.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Online)

7th January 2007, 04:54	#134 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) There were more than a few meg instructors that were made prior to Leon cancelling all the other IT ratings.. Could you expand on that please ? __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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7th January 2007, 05:21	#135 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,015	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Could you expand on that please ? I can think of 2 early instructors that were not certified my Leon and another about 2-3 years ago (not sure really how many were done this way but they are out there).. One I know has been back to the factory frequently (hint hint) but one I know has not... There are also a few instructors down in florida that I don't think were certified by leon.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Online)

7th January 2007, 05:27	#136 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) I can think of 2 early instructors that were not certified my Leon and another about 2-3 years ago (not sure really how many were done this way but they are out there).. One I know has been back to the factory frequently (hint hint) but one I know has not... There are also a few instructors down in florida that I don't think were certified by leon.. What are their names, and who certified them? Why would Leon (ISC) advocate this? __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
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7th January 2007, 06:00	#137 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,015	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000) What are their names, and who certified them? Why would Leon (ISC) advocate this? AT the beginning there were other ITs.. This only changed a few years ago.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Online)

7th January 2007, 06:06	#138 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) AT the beginning there were other ITs.. This only changed a few years ago.. I believe this is in-line with what Ron has mentioned, Leon is the only IT on the Meg which means a visit to US is required for x-over. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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7th January 2007, 06:44	#139 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 864	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by cys) I have personally observed a KISS valve fail in a way that resulted in delivery of double the amount of O2 through the leak (e.g., a change from 1 lpm to 2 lpm). The following words from the Jetsam website are relevant: "A key point to remember is that everything eventually fails." The must not hav ben responsible for that, the IP reg must have increased, it happened to me but with an overpresure valvel tum just above the kiss valve pressure you wouldnot have increased your flow rate .
(Offline)

7th January 2007, 06:56	#140 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,015	Re: Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) The must not hav ben responsible for that, the IP reg must have increased, it happened to me but with an overpresure valvel tum just above the kiss valve pressure you wouldnot have increased your flow rate . I common failure is a failure of the oring which will allow much more oxygen to pass than anticipated.. The original SS valves needed oring replacement about every 6 months of use, the newer moldedunits are much easier on the orings.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Online)

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