Minimising Rebreather Deaths / Fatalities

the opinion about the solenoid failing from non use is silly

Keeping in mind that the heart of this thread is minimizing rebreather deaths...



Hmmm... I would not put 100% blind faith into anything. Are you absolutely sure it's impossible for a hyperoxic breathing loop to creep up on you?


++++++ true neither do it, I absolutly sur of nothing, but if no on pushed the button i don't see what could drive o2 in the loop between 2 hits ?
I never heard of a kiss valve , an hydrogom valve or any manual valve that has turned on by itself....it is possible tell me I will change my mind about mccr straigth away.


If your O2 cells were current limited in your unit, do you think your mCCR could become a sly killer (maybe hyperoxic)?

+++++ OK we are not on the same frequency, I was trying to analyze what could happend between to ppo2 checks, I was not trying to analze general behaviour of the 2 machine.

I will not rely on hearing a solenoid "click" to keep me alive.


++++ this really no what I meant !!! between 2 check in eccr if you hear the solenoid open you have to make sure it closes seconds after , you have to feel , listen your machine mccr don't this is all that I was saying.

That "click" is supplemental information. It's life sustaining information that I am primarily interested in and I only get that from the PO2 display.

++++ I know that, otherwise you would not be there !!! go on (((-: but the point is not here,
-the point is how long does it take for a stucked open solenoid to bring ppo2 to dangerous levels?
is th time between 2 check short enough to exempt the eccr diver to listen carefully to his machine to make sure the solenoids has not stucked opened ?
the mccr diver has nothing to listen to , this is all i neant, I don't say that it is better to dive kiss, I am just trying to analyze things


I still fail to see the difference though. If one can remember to add dil/O2 to the mCCR, one certainly can remember to check a PO2 display on a eCCR.

+++++ this is the situantion between 2 check or check addition that i was trying to compare.

It's a machine. I would not put 100% trust in it.

+++++ you are absolutly rigth, but betwen 2 checks/o2 addition the kiss is not a machine, it is only an orifince that can stop giving oxygen but certainely not dicide to give more....the eccr can because he drives o2 injection , the kiss drives nothing,
of course i an not saying that the kiss can be 100% trusted unlike eccr's god not, i was thinking the kiss could not open o2 between 2 check...THE POINT IS THAT I DID NOT CEARLY EXPLAINED THIS SORRY


All rebreather divers put some amount of trust into their unit or else they simply wouldn't dive them. However, if one put 100% trust into their unit, then there would be no need to monitor anything at all. We certainly are not to that level with these machines.

++++ 100% true, the point is on the on ther hand that all ccr divers only check their machines periodicaly, nven if it is every minutes , the checking time must represent 30% of the total time, the question is "is the rebreather a quick enough killer to kill you when you are not watching the gage" and i hope you sometime have a look to something lse then your ppo2 monitors otherwise ?

I am gonna be tottaly honest with you; i don't mind beeing wrong or rigth at all : so when i dive I get to the bottom (usually arround 40m cause i am too lazy to blend trimix), once at th bottom i adjust my po2 (1,2 bars), and at constant depth I check my po2 meter every 5 minutes, in fact every time i watch my explorer,
I am a mad ... I don't think so, I am stupid .... I don't think so I don't want to die...but i know that there is not chance at all that ppo2 can built up or that my ppo2 can get down in a dangerous level in 5 minutes...
it can't build up caus no one pressed the button for me... and it can't get dangerously down cause I know and tried many time to shut my o2 too see how long it take at constant depth to get down and perfectly know that it gets down very slowly.
But it is at constant depth without effort... as soon as I have to swim hard of to ascend... of course I check and check and check....like you.


Whether mCCR or eCCR, we should be vigilent in monitoring our PO2.

Dive safe

The chances of both me being distracted, AND the electronics failing at the same time are pretty low, considering my "goal" is to catch it prior to it wanting to fire automatically.

Running manual is an ISC recommendation, Leon is the ONLY IT on the MEG and that is what he teaches, so expect Meg divers to follow that moreso than others. There are not too many guys who have been diving CCR as long as leon, so Im inclined to go with his training.

the opinion about the solenoid failing from non use is silly (IMHO)

Who cares what my PO2 is, as long its ABOVE what I have told my computer I am diving? So what if it bounces between 1.3 and 1.1 as long as it doesnt go below 1.1? It adds a tiny bit of DCS margin.

You have expressed your opion - theres no need to keep going on and on

Right on Ron. This is a typical internet couch-diver opinon.

Advice to that unspectacular species: Dive more. Write less.



Dave

This is a typical internet couch-diver opinon.

Advice to that unspectacular species: Dive more. Write less.


Dave

One other opinion (perhaps fact), those susceptible to performing unprovoked personal attacks on strangers is potentially exhibiting psychotic disorder. A contribution to Rebreather fatality minimization is to maybe consider some counselling?


True I'm a relative newbie, but I make multi-million dollar decisions (that sometimes puts others health at risk) based on partial info on a weekly basis. Hence I feel qualified to spur debate. I have only expressed a preference for a logical method and with yours and others help, reached some important clarifications .

I cannot accept the oppression and attempted brow-beating. May all others be as stubborn.