Dave Shaw/Don Shirley Report

***EBT*** · 19th April 2005, 20:08

Hi All,

No doubt some of your are aware (and even attended)... Don Shirley gave a small lecture on the Boesmansgat dive, in south east london yesterday. The event was attended by about 40 people with mixed experience levels and arranged by some regulars on Yorkshire Divers .

Don started with a backgrounder showing the logistics involved in the diving operation (staff/gas/safety systems) and discussing the why's etc of the dive. The event was very frank and a good balance of honesty and humour (which has to be tough when you're talking about a friend). It finished with the actual footage from Daves helmet cam, cut off at an appropriate time.

A short summary from my point of view (any errors are entirely my fault);

The schedule was planned using vplanner and some tweaking following conversation with Ross Hemmingway. two VR3's were also carried. Safety gas was pre-staged (25 x AL80 CU ft) on a line (1/2") and backup CCR's available from the surface.

Dave dived on 4/80 dil to a depth of 270m, using a mk15 with hammerhead electronics. His compression rate was just over 20 mpm. The video shows Dave descending the line, hitting depths on time. At 260m he hits the bottom and swims down his previously laid penetration line (cave line) to 270m to meet Deon Dwyers body.

The original plan had been to cut the body free of the tank/harness which WERE stuck in the mud. Upon reaching the body, it is evident that the tanks have somehow come free from the mud and Mr Dwyers remains are now almost neutral. You see Dave deploy the bag that had been originally intended to house Deons remains for their journey to the surface. I was interested to note that the conditions were not particularly silty....

Its about now that you see Daves dangling light head catch in the cave line that is now festooning Deon's remains. Dave frees this, then continues to try and struggle to get Deon's remains into the bag within his 5 minutes of alloted bottom time. About now, you notice Dave deploying some shears with his hands shaking (presumably from HPNS). Sadly, you cant hear the sound track, since this was understandably too traumatic for Don to listen to.

Shortly after this, Dave starts back from the body to the ascent line (about 4 mins 30 secs of elapsed bottom time). The video cuts here, for obvious reasons. Apparently shortly after this you see Daves progress halted with a jerk (presumed to be entanglement).

Don's attempted descent to assist his friend was ceased when his hammerhead controller imploded (he failled to fully fill the controller with oil) at 240m. Don then spends a lot of time describing his ascent and the problems therein (vestibular bend at about 45m). This somewhat epic process goes to show just how close things were for Don and his determination to live. Since I said this was a summary I wont go into much on this. Suffice to say Don bailled to OC and completed an extended schedule, before undergoing 7 days of recompression, which has left him with residual symptoms.

Don's opinion was that Dave died of deepwater blackout, brought on by high CO2. This was caused by buildup on the descent, the exertion of working with Deon's remains and ultimately getting entangled in the cave line (laid by dave previously).

When the descent line was recovered, both Dave and Deons remains surfaced with it. Dave was attached to the line and deon was tangled in cave line, which was tangled in Dave's light head.

I wouldnt presume to comment on the events, but I will say that Im very impressed at Dons fortitude and grateful to him for sharing events in an honest manner. Hopefully this sad tale will inform the diving community and contribute to improved safety.

/Zak

PS. Don is arranging a collection in Daves memory to provide more recompression facilities in south africa. To contribute; iantdsa@iafrica.com

***Decodiver*** · 19th April 2005, 20:10

Not having been able to make the presentation, thanks Zak for your summary.

Cheers

Dave

***caveseeker7*** · 19th April 2005, 20:17

Thanks for the summary, Zak, it's much appreciated.

Juz · 19th April 2005, 21:22

It was a great presentation, with just the right mix of solemn and humour.

It must tear Don up everytime he gives it, so I'd like to extend my gratitude and respect to him.

The video from Dave's Head cam was very sobering.

Thanks to Spike and Claire for sorting it out.

Juz

dteubner · 19th April 2005, 23:32

Simon Mitchell gave an excellent presentation about the accident at OzTek IV which was attended by pretty much everyone at the meeting.

His opinion was that the accident was caused by CO2 retention due to a very high work of breathing caused by gas density and contributed to by fine grade sorb and some assembly issues. He had some really important points to make about cross over training.

I understand that the investigation report will be published (probably in the UHMS journal) hopefully soon.

Dave T

Mark Chase · 20th April 2005, 08:29

I also attended the talk and was both impressed and sobered by the experience. Zac covered it pretty well. As for the video I have seen it with sound and I would struggle to match Dave's rate of breathing at the end it was truly disturbing to listen to and I can well understand it not being plaid like that. A CO2 hit is very very likley. The breathing rate was simulated by Don on dry land and he nearly passed out and needed a considerable time to recover from the experiment.

Two points that I felt were very important were raised. First there was no plan for an assessment dive. The dive plan was based on the findings of Dave's initial dive. As it turned out the condition of the body and the problems with the body floating free were unforeseen and resulted in an unrehearsed attempt at recovery.

Secondly Dave chose to do the dive on an END of 40 - 45m. This was to avoid HPNS but compounded with the Co2 retention and its effect on narcosis it was concluded that the real effect could have been equivalent to 60m.

Finally I must say the talk dispelled any thoughts I had as to weather or not attempting this recovery was a good idea. Dave Shaw was someone who wanted to push it all the way and this dive was typical of what he wanted to achieve.

ATB

Mark Chase

Pierre Farrugia · 20th April 2005, 08:41

Is there somewhere on the net where I can see this fottage ! As now it seems to have been shown in public.

Regards

Pierre

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I also attended the talk and was both impressed and sobered by the experience. Zac covered it pretty well. As for the video I have seen it with sound and I would struggle to match Dave's rate of breathing at the end it was truly disturbing to listen to and I can well understand it not being plaid like that. A CO2 hit is very very likley. The breathing rate was simulated by Don on dry land and he nearly passed out and needed a considerable time to recover from the experiment.

Two points that I felt were very important were raised. First there was no plan for an assessment dive. The dive plan was based on the findings of Dave's initial dive. As it turned out the condition of the body and the problems with the body floating free were unforeseen and resulted in an unrehearsed attempt at recovery.

Secondly Dave chose to do the dive on an END of 40 - 45m. This was to avoid HPNS but compounded with the Co2 retention and its effect on narcosis it was concluded that the real effect could have been equivalent to 60m.

Finally I must say the talk dispelled any thoughts I had as to weather or not attempting this recovery was a good idea. Dave Shaw was someone who wanted to push it all the way and this dive was typical of what he wanted to achieve.

ATB

Mark Chase

Mdemon · 20th April 2005, 09:16

Thanks for the summaries. I'd be interested in seeing the DVD when it's made available...

"Lessons learnt" is I think the hardest but the most important thing to establish in these situations.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Dave Shaw was someone who wanted to push it all the way and this dive was typical of what he wanted to achieve.

That was my feeling when I heard about the plans to recover the body. It pissed me off no end that people felt it necessary to criticise the guy (once he had died) for attempting it. We can't live our lives wrapped in cotton wool. It appears that Dave Shaw was a man who saw a challenge and accepted it. There are very few guys like that.

Was the gas choice considered a very major factor then? On balance, it seems a clear head and HPNS may be the lesser of two evils compared to narcosis...

***Decodiver*** · 20th April 2005, 09:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by dteubner)

He had some really important points to make about cross over training.

Hi Dave,

Can you expand on Simon's comments here, I teach crossovers and am interested in his thoughts.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

***EBT*** · 20th April 2005, 09:42

IANTD South Africa Home Page

19th April 2005, 20:08	#1 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,995	Dave Shaw/Don Shirley Report Hi All, No doubt some of your are aware (and even attended)... Don Shirley gave a small lecture on the Boesmansgat dive, in south east london yesterday. The event was attended by about 40 people with mixed experience levels and arranged by some regulars on Yorkshire Divers . Don started with a backgrounder showing the logistics involved in the diving operation (staff/gas/safety systems) and discussing the why's etc of the dive. The event was very frank and a good balance of honesty and humour (which has to be tough when you're talking about a friend). It finished with the actual footage from Daves helmet cam, cut off at an appropriate time. A short summary from my point of view (any errors are entirely my fault); The schedule was planned using vplanner and some tweaking following conversation with Ross Hemmingway. two VR3's were also carried. Safety gas was pre-staged (25 x AL80 CU ft) on a line (1/2") and backup CCR's available from the surface. Dave dived on 4/80 dil to a depth of 270m, using a mk15 with hammerhead electronics. His compression rate was just over 20 mpm. The video shows Dave descending the line, hitting depths on time. At 260m he hits the bottom and swims down his previously laid penetration line (cave line) to 270m to meet Deon Dwyers body. The original plan had been to cut the body free of the tank/harness which WERE stuck in the mud. Upon reaching the body, it is evident that the tanks have somehow come free from the mud and Mr Dwyers remains are now almost neutral. You see Dave deploy the bag that had been originally intended to house Deons remains for their journey to the surface. I was interested to note that the conditions were not particularly silty.... Its about now that you see Daves dangling light head catch in the cave line that is now festooning Deon's remains. Dave frees this, then continues to try and struggle to get Deon's remains into the bag within his 5 minutes of alloted bottom time. About now, you notice Dave deploying some shears with his hands shaking (presumably from HPNS). Sadly, you cant hear the sound track, since this was understandably too traumatic for Don to listen to. Shortly after this, Dave starts back from the body to the ascent line (about 4 mins 30 secs of elapsed bottom time). The video cuts here, for obvious reasons. Apparently shortly after this you see Daves progress halted with a jerk (presumed to be entanglement). Don's attempted descent to assist his friend was ceased when his hammerhead controller imploded (he failled to fully fill the controller with oil) at 240m. Don then spends a lot of time describing his ascent and the problems therein (vestibular bend at about 45m). This somewhat epic process goes to show just how close things were for Don and his determination to live. Since I said this was a summary I wont go into much on this. Suffice to say Don bailled to OC and completed an extended schedule, before undergoing 7 days of recompression, which has left him with residual symptoms. Don's opinion was that Dave died of deepwater blackout, brought on by high CO2. This was caused by buildup on the descent, the exertion of working with Deon's remains and ultimately getting entangled in the cave line (laid by dave previously). When the descent line was recovered, both Dave and Deons remains surfaced with it. Dave was attached to the line and deon was tangled in cave line, which was tangled in Dave's light head. I wouldnt presume to comment on the events, but I will say that Im very impressed at Dons fortitude and grateful to him for sharing events in an honest manner. Hopefully this sad tale will inform the diving community and contribute to improved safety. /Zak PS. Don is arranging a collection in Daves memory to provide more recompression facilities in south africa. To contribute; iantdsa@iafrica.com __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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19th April 2005, 20:10	#2 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,197	Not having been able to make the presentation, thanks Zak for your summary. Cheers Dave __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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19th April 2005, 20:17	#3 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,496	Thanks for the summary, Zak, it's much appreciated. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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19th April 2005, 21:22	#4 (permalink)
Juz Team Kinky Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London UK Posts: 147	It was a great presentation, with just the right mix of solemn and humour. It must tear Don up everytime he gives it, so I'd like to extend my gratitude and respect to him. The video from Dave's Head cam was very sobering. Thanks to Spike and Claire for sorting it out. Juz __________________ ~KINKY DIVERS~ Because going down is fun We are all prompted by the same motives, all deceived by the same fallacies, all animated by hope, obstructed by danger, entangled by desire and seduced by pleasure. Welcome to Kinky Divers!
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19th April 2005, 23:32	#5 (permalink)
dteubner Pedant Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 217	Simon Mitchell gave an excellent presentation about the accident at OzTek IV which was attended by pretty much everyone at the meeting. His opinion was that the accident was caused by CO2 retention due to a very high work of breathing caused by gas density and contributed to by fine grade sorb and some assembly issues. He had some really important points to make about cross over training. I understand that the investigation report will be published (probably in the UHMS journal) hopefully soon. Dave T
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20th April 2005, 08:29	#6 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,694	I also attended the talk and was both impressed and sobered by the experience. Zac covered it pretty well. As for the video I have seen it with sound and I would struggle to match Dave's rate of breathing at the end it was truly disturbing to listen to and I can well understand it not being plaid like that. A CO2 hit is very very likley. The breathing rate was simulated by Don on dry land and he nearly passed out and needed a considerable time to recover from the experiment. Two points that I felt were very important were raised. First there was no plan for an assessment dive. The dive plan was based on the findings of Dave's initial dive. As it turned out the condition of the body and the problems with the body floating free were unforeseen and resulted in an unrehearsed attempt at recovery. Secondly Dave chose to do the dive on an END of 40 - 45m. This was to avoid HPNS but compounded with the Co2 retention and its effect on narcosis it was concluded that the real effect could have been equivalent to 60m. Finally I must say the talk dispelled any thoughts I had as to weather or not attempting this recovery was a good idea. Dave Shaw was someone who wanted to push it all the way and this dive was typical of what he wanted to achieve. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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20th April 2005, 08:41	#7 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Is there somewhere on the net where I can see this fottage ! As now it seems to have been shown in public. Regards Pierre Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I also attended the talk and was both impressed and sobered by the experience. Zac covered it pretty well. As for the video I have seen it with sound and I would struggle to match Dave's rate of breathing at the end it was truly disturbing to listen to and I can well understand it not being plaid like that. A CO2 hit is very very likley. The breathing rate was simulated by Don on dry land and he nearly passed out and needed a considerable time to recover from the experiment. Two points that I felt were very important were raised. First there was no plan for an assessment dive. The dive plan was based on the findings of Dave's initial dive. As it turned out the condition of the body and the problems with the body floating free were unforeseen and resulted in an unrehearsed attempt at recovery. Secondly Dave chose to do the dive on an END of 40 - 45m. This was to avoid HPNS but compounded with the Co2 retention and its effect on narcosis it was concluded that the real effect could have been equivalent to 60m. Finally I must say the talk dispelled any thoughts I had as to weather or not attempting this recovery was a good idea. Dave Shaw was someone who wanted to push it all the way and this dive was typical of what he wanted to achieve. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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20th April 2005, 09:16	#8 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,931	Thanks for the summaries. I'd be interested in seeing the DVD when it's made available... "Lessons learnt" is I think the hardest but the most important thing to establish in these situations. Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Dave Shaw was someone who wanted to push it all the way and this dive was typical of what he wanted to achieve. That was my feeling when I heard about the plans to recover the body. It pissed me off no end that people felt it necessary to criticise the guy (once he had died) for attempting it. We can't live our lives wrapped in cotton wool. It appears that Dave Shaw was a man who saw a challenge and accepted it. There are very few guys like that. Was the gas choice considered a very major factor then? On balance, it seems a clear head and HPNS may be the lesser of two evils compared to narcosis... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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20th April 2005, 09:23	#9 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,197	Quote: (Originally Posted by dteubner) He had some really important points to make about cross over training. Hi Dave, Can you expand on Simon's comments here, I teach crossovers and am interested in his thoughts. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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20th April 2005, 09:42	#10 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,995	More Information IANTD South Africa Home Page __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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