Signal for Catastrophic Situation....?

netmage · 21st July 2011, 14:42

So I was pondering a situation, where time was of the essence and thinking about how we could better communicate.

In a hyperoxic or hypoxic scenario, a common resolution is to perform a dil flush.....

Can anyone think of a rapid, no-nonsense signal for a team to communicate - "I see something wrong - you need to do a dil-flush now...!" without turning things into a conversation....?

**diverreb** · 21st July 2011, 14:52

The DIVA in the Hammerhead kind of does that for you... When it's vibrating it's telling you to react NOW or face the consequences. The new one also has a warning system facing outward so team members can see possible problems...

I would think that if the diver is in such a state where he/she doesn't realize that he/she is in a dire situation, you'd probably have to try to initiate the dil flush for him/her... Which is easy to do on front/shoulder mounted lungs.... Not sure if it's even possible with BMCL.

Richie

**ChrisBrown** · 21st July 2011, 15:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage)

So I was pondering a situation, where time was of the essence and thinking about how we could better communicate.

In a hyperoxic or hypoxic scenario, a common resolution is to perform a dil flush.....

Can anyone think of a rapid, no-nonsense signal for a team to communicate - "I see something wrong - you need to do a dil-flush now...!" without turning things into a conversation....?

I have one I use in class for Dil flush.

Its a crossed arm signal with on hand pointed finger and the other one pulling the opv cord. Guess it would work too well for a backmounted diver though.

what do you mean by hypoxic / hyperoxic scenario? A low oxygen alarm / HUD flash should show the diver way before a buddy notices something?

Methinks you would be recovering an unconscious diver off the bottom for the former if it got to that stage or watching your buddy aggressively dumping gas and injecting dil on the latter before you could get involved.

netmage · 21st July 2011, 15:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris at Silent World)

what do you mean by hypoxic / hyperoxic scenario? A low oxygen alarm / HUD flash should show the diver way before a buddy notices something?

We've all sat here behind the keyboard and said "that can never happen" because of x, y, z.....

The operative word is 'should'...

I do like the idea of the crossed arms... but would try to not 'mimic' the action on myself - it might not convey as an instruction/command, vs. "oh I thought you were doing a flush...."

alpine44 · 21st July 2011, 17:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage)

We've all sat here behind the keyboard and said "that can never happen" because of x, y, z.....

The operative word is 'should'...

I do like the idea of the crossed arms... but would try to not 'mimic' the action on myself - it might not convey as an instruction/command, vs. "oh I thought you were doing a flush...."

How about surrounding it with the YOU command?

YOU - (crossed arms mimicking dil flush) - YOU

That plus the look on your face should get the urgency across.

Steve Schultz · 21st July 2011, 17:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage)

So I was pondering a situation, where time was of the essence and thinking about how we could better communicate.

In a hyperoxic or hypoxic scenario, a common resolution is to perform a dil flush.....

Can anyone think of a rapid, no-nonsense signal for a team to communicate - "I see something wrong - you need to do a dil-flush now...!" without turning things into a conversation....?

It's not quite what you're looking for, but my buddies and I have a "bailout" signal. It's used to get someone off the loop. If someone gives you the bailout signal, you don't question it, you bailout. After you bailout, then question it or discuss it if you need to.

The signal is putting a flat hand in front of your mouth, then turning your hand so that it's pointing vertically. It's essentially the movement that you make when flipping a BOV lever, so it's quite intuitive.

This can be used to get someone off the loop if you suspect that they're suffering or at risk of suffering from one of the 3 H's. Not quite a dil flush, but it solves the problem fast.

**ChrisBrown** · 21st July 2011, 18:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage)

We've all sat here behind the keyboard and said "that can never happen" because of x, y, z.....

The operative word is 'should'...

I do like the idea of the crossed arms... but would try to not 'mimic' the action on myself - it might not convey as an instruction/command, vs. "oh I thought you were doing a flush...."

What I mean is - how are you going to spot something wrong with your buddies before they either a) spot it themselves, b) keel over unconscious or c) convulse?

Whats the scenario exactly? Are you talking about spotting something not too concerning such as 1.6 on your buddies handset and wanting them to perform a flush to bring it back down to set point or something more severe?

Steve Schultz · 21st July 2011, 18:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris at Silent World)

Whats the scenario exactly? Are you talking about spotting something not too concerning such as 1.6 on your buddies handset and wanting them to perform a flush to bring it back down to set point or something more severe?

The obvious one would be a clumsy buddy displaying early signs of hypercapnia.
Less obvious would be a PO2 problem. In my case with a pSCR, it could mean spotting an incorrect gas is plugged into the switchblock.

Dsix36 · 21st July 2011, 20:27

Tim, as far as a signal goes, I think that if you held your BO reg up to your buddy as if for him to use it would be an effective signal.

I would certainly understand it if someone shoved a reg in front of me.

I know that this is not quite a hand signal. Just my 2 cents.

tecdiverdude · 21st July 2011, 21:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve Schultz)

It's not quite what you're looking for, but my buddies and I have a "bailout" signal. It's used to get someone off the loop. If someone gives you the bailout signal, you don't question it, you bailout. After you bailout, then question it or discuss it if you need to.

The signal is putting a flat hand in front of your mouth, then turning your hand so that it's pointing vertically. It's essentially the movement that you make when flipping a BOV lever, so it's quite intuitive.

This can be used to get someone off the loop if you suspect that they're suffering or at risk of suffering from one of the 3 H's. Not quite a dil flush, but it solves the problem fast.

I like this and will teach it to my buddies... simple and imperative

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

Tim, as far as a signal goes, I think that if you held your BO reg up to your buddy as if for him to use it would be an effective signal.

I would certainly understand it if someone shoved a reg in front of me.

I know that this is not quite a hand signal. Just my 2 cents.

Don, we are all taught in O/C tec courses, that when someone shoves a reg in your mouth you take it no questions asked,, then discuss the issue... so its also utilising a skill that most of us have already learnt.. I think a combination or either of these would suffice... but I'm only a Noob..

21st July 2011, 14:42	#1 (permalink)
netmage Tim Owens Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 1,453	Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? So I was pondering a situation, where time was of the essence and thinking about how we could better communicate. In a hyperoxic or hypoxic scenario, a common resolution is to perform a dil flush..... Can anyone think of a rapid, no-nonsense signal for a team to communicate - "I see something wrong - you need to do a dil-flush now...!" without turning things into a conversation....?
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21st July 2011, 14:52	#2 (permalink)
diverreb Richie Burr O2ptima FX Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 1,463	Re: Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? The DIVA in the Hammerhead kind of does that for you... When it's vibrating it's telling you to react NOW or face the consequences. The new one also has a warning system facing outward so team members can see possible problems... I would think that if the diver is in such a state where he/she doesn't realize that he/she is in a dire situation, you'd probably have to try to initiate the dil flush for him/her... Which is easy to do on front/shoulder mounted lungs.... Not sure if it's even possible with BMCL. Richie __________________ Richie Burr.... Probing the Deep Blue Seas since 1966!
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21st July 2011, 15:00	#3 (permalink)
ChrisBrown Supporting Member Evo+, Pos MKVI, Sentinel rEvo II & III Minis & Micros Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Key Largo Posts: 1,460	Re: Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage) So I was pondering a situation, where time was of the essence and thinking about how we could better communicate. In a hyperoxic or hypoxic scenario, a common resolution is to perform a dil flush..... Can anyone think of a rapid, no-nonsense signal for a team to communicate - "I see something wrong - you need to do a dil-flush now...!" without turning things into a conversation....? I have one I use in class for Dil flush. Its a crossed arm signal with on hand pointed finger and the other one pulling the opv cord. Guess it would work too well for a backmounted diver though. what do you mean by hypoxic / hyperoxic scenario? A low oxygen alarm / HUD flash should show the diver way before a buddy notices something? Methinks you would be recovering an unconscious diver off the bottom for the former if it got to that stage or watching your buddy aggressively dumping gas and injecting dil on the latter before you could get involved. __________________ Chris Brown IANTD, PADI & TDI CCR Instructor Inspiration & Evolution, Sentinel, Poseidon MKVI
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21st July 2011, 15:14	#4 (permalink)
netmage Tim Owens Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 1,453	Re: Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris at Silent World) what do you mean by hypoxic / hyperoxic scenario? A low oxygen alarm / HUD flash should show the diver way before a buddy notices something? We've all sat here behind the keyboard and said "that can never happen" because of x, y, z..... The operative word is 'should'... I do like the idea of the crossed arms... but would try to not 'mimic' the action on myself - it might not convey as an instruction/command, vs. "oh I thought you were doing a flush...."
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21st July 2011, 17:33	#5 (permalink)
alpine44 RBW Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New England / Maryland Posts: 87	Re: Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage) We've all sat here behind the keyboard and said "that can never happen" because of x, y, z..... The operative word is 'should'... I do like the idea of the crossed arms... but would try to not 'mimic' the action on myself - it might not convey as an instruction/command, vs. "oh I thought you were doing a flush...." How about surrounding it with the YOU command? YOU - (crossed arms mimicking dil flush) - YOU That plus the look on your face should get the urgency across.
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21st July 2011, 17:41	#6 (permalink)
Steve Schultz Nearly Bubbleless Halcyon RB80 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 448	Re: Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage) So I was pondering a situation, where time was of the essence and thinking about how we could better communicate. In a hyperoxic or hypoxic scenario, a common resolution is to perform a dil flush..... Can anyone think of a rapid, no-nonsense signal for a team to communicate - "I see something wrong - you need to do a dil-flush now...!" without turning things into a conversation....? It's not quite what you're looking for, but my buddies and I have a "bailout" signal. It's used to get someone off the loop. If someone gives you the bailout signal, you don't question it, you bailout. After you bailout, then question it or discuss it if you need to. The signal is putting a flat hand in front of your mouth, then turning your hand so that it's pointing vertically. It's essentially the movement that you make when flipping a BOV lever, so it's quite intuitive. This can be used to get someone off the loop if you suspect that they're suffering or at risk of suffering from one of the 3 H's. Not quite a dil flush, but it solves the problem fast.
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21st July 2011, 18:17	#7 (permalink)
ChrisBrown Supporting Member Evo+, Pos MKVI, Sentinel rEvo II & III Minis & Micros Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Key Largo Posts: 1,460	Re: Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage) We've all sat here behind the keyboard and said "that can never happen" because of x, y, z..... The operative word is 'should'... I do like the idea of the crossed arms... but would try to not 'mimic' the action on myself - it might not convey as an instruction/command, vs. "oh I thought you were doing a flush...." What I mean is - how are you going to spot something wrong with your buddies before they either a) spot it themselves, b) keel over unconscious or c) convulse? Whats the scenario exactly? Are you talking about spotting something not too concerning such as 1.6 on your buddies handset and wanting them to perform a flush to bring it back down to set point or something more severe? __________________ Chris Brown IANTD, PADI & TDI CCR Instructor Inspiration & Evolution, Sentinel, Poseidon MKVI
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21st July 2011, 18:53	#8 (permalink)
Steve Schultz Nearly Bubbleless Halcyon RB80 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 448	Re: Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris at Silent World) Whats the scenario exactly? Are you talking about spotting something not too concerning such as 1.6 on your buddies handset and wanting them to perform a flush to bring it back down to set point or something more severe? The obvious one would be a clumsy buddy displaying early signs of hypercapnia. Less obvious would be a PO2 problem. In my case with a pSCR, it could mean spotting an incorrect gas is plugged into the switchblock.
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21st July 2011, 20:27	#9 (permalink)
Dsix36 anti-hammerhead rEvo Optima Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield_Beach, Florida Posts: 3,455	Re: Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? Tim, as far as a signal goes, I think that if you held your BO reg up to your buddy as if for him to use it would be an effective signal. I would certainly understand it if someone shoved a reg in front of me. I know that this is not quite a hand signal. Just my 2 cents.
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21st July 2011, 21:31	#10 (permalink)
tecdiverdude little man, big dreams JJ CCR.. Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: nsw-newcastle Posts: 380	Re: Signal for Catastrophic Situation....? Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve Schultz) It's not quite what you're looking for, but my buddies and I have a "bailout" signal. It's used to get someone off the loop. If someone gives you the bailout signal, you don't question it, you bailout. After you bailout, then question it or discuss it if you need to. The signal is putting a flat hand in front of your mouth, then turning your hand so that it's pointing vertically. It's essentially the movement that you make when flipping a BOV lever, so it's quite intuitive. This can be used to get someone off the loop if you suspect that they're suffering or at risk of suffering from one of the 3 H's. Not quite a dil flush, but it solves the problem fast. I like this and will teach it to my buddies... simple and imperative Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) Tim, as far as a signal goes, I think that if you held your BO reg up to your buddy as if for him to use it would be an effective signal. I would certainly understand it if someone shoved a reg in front of me. I know that this is not quite a hand signal. Just my 2 cents. Don, we are all taught in O/C tec courses, that when someone shoves a reg in your mouth you take it no questions asked,, then discuss the issue... so its also utilising a skill that most of us have already learnt.. I think a combination or either of these would suffice... but I'm only a Noob..
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