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Old 22nd September 2008, 04:01   #1 (permalink)
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Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

Diver: Jan Otys
Unit: Habanero PASCR
Wreck dive to 115m with surface support of Croatia.

Expedition Garibaldi 2008 - News
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Old 22nd September 2008, 17:37   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brad_Horn) View Original Post
Diver: Jan Otys
Unit: Habanero PASCR
Wreck dive to 115m with surface support of Croatia.

Expedition Garibaldi 2008 - News
Another heart attack on a rebreather.

The number of heart attacks on rebreathers is already astonishing, and the more and more of these that get added to the list, the stronger this becomes.

At 90msw, where the victim's problems started, the WOB on is Habanero must have been pretty high. Very few pathologists are aware of the links between retained CO2 and heart attacks.

Another sad accident.

Alex

Last edited by AD_ward9; 22nd September 2008 at 17:53..
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Old 22nd September 2008, 17:49   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

''Dilation Cardiomyopathy'' means what in layman's terms please Doctors?

Looking at his bio pic he didn't look like the first candidate for a heart attack, but then I suppose looks can be very, very deceiving & who knows the efferct of CCR on our systems.

Sad news and the 2nd I've read about on this forum today.

Condolancies to the family, friends & buddies of both divers.
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Old 22nd September 2008, 19:07   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jim) View Original Post
''Dilation Cardiomyopathy'' means what in layman's terms please Doctors?

Looking at his bio pic he didn't look like the first candidate for a heart attack, but then I suppose looks can be very, very deceiving & who knows the efferct of CCR on our systems.

Sad news and the 2nd I've read about on this forum today.

Condolancies to the family, friends & buddies of both divers.
This is what I found on the web:
Cardiomyopathy – heart muscle disease – is a growing public health problem. In the United States alone, 3 million people are currently living with cardiomyopathy, and another 400,000 are diagnosed each year. Many of these people suffer every day from heart failure – the most common manifestation of cardiomyopathy – and every year cardiomyopathy is a contributing factor in nearly a quarter million deaths. As the population ages, the incidence of cardiomyopathy is expected to increase greatly.
Patients with cardiomyopathy tend to do much better if they understand their disease, and actively participate in monitoring it and treating it. The purpose of this article is to help patients with cardiomyopathy, and their loved ones, to understand the basics of this disorder, and what they ought to be doing to help themselves.

What is cardiomyopathy? What is heart failure?

Cardiomyopathy is disease of the heart muscle. In most cases, cardiomyopathy causes the heart muscle to become weak. Various medical disorders cause various types of cardiomyopathy, but all types of cardiomyopathy ultimately do the same thing – they reduce the efficient functioning of the heart muscle, and diminish the ability of the heart to meet the needs of the body. When the heart can no longer pump enough blood to meet the needs of the body, heart failure is said to be present.
What are the types of cardiomyopathy?

There are three major types of cardiomyopathy – dilated cardiomyopathy, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and restrictive cardiomyopathy. The vast majority of patients who develop cardiomyopathy have the dilated form. So, after briefly describing hypertrophic and restrictive cardiomyopathies, we will concentrate on dilated cardiomyopathy for the remainder of this article.
Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is a genetic disorder that causes a chaotic growth of heart muscle cells within the ventricles. The disordered, thickened (or hypertrophic) heart muscle can lead to problems pumping sufficient blood to the body’s organs, and can cause potentially fatal cardiac arrhythmias. Click here for a more detailed discussion of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

]i]Restrictive cardiomyopathy is a very rare condition in which the heart muscle is infiltrated, and made stiff, by abnormal cells, protein, or scar tissue. The stiffening of the ventricles restricts the return of blood to the heart, causing the blood to “dam up” into the body’s organs. The most common cause of restrictive cardiomyopathy is amyloidosis, a disease in which protein-like substance is deposited within the body’s tissues. Other causes include sarcoidosis and hemochromatosis.

In dilated cardiomyopathy (often referred to as congestive cardiomyopathy or congestive heart failure), previously normal heart muscle becomes damaged, leading to a generalized weakening of the walls of the cardiac chambers. To compensate for the weakening of their muscular walls, the cardiac chambers dilate. (The dilation of the cardiac chambers, especially of the left ventricle, is often referred to as "remodeling.") The weakening and the dilation of the heart muscle eventually lead to heart failure.

What causes dilated cardiomyopathy?

Because almost anything that damages cardiac muscle can lead to dilated cardiomyopathy, there are many causes.
The most common cause of cardiomyopathy in developed nations is coronary artery disease. Heart attacks cause death of heart muscle by obstruction of a coronary artery. While the damage is localized to the region of muscle supplied by that artery, within a few months the entire left ventricle dilates (or remodels) to compensate for the damage. With a small heart attack, the amount of ventricular dilation is minimal. But with a large heart attack or a series of smaller heart attacks, dilated cardiomyopathy becomes extensive, and heart failure ensues.

Another common cause of dilated cardiomyopathy is inflammation of the heart muscle, a condition called myocarditis. Myocarditis is most often caused by viral infections, but can also be caused by bacterial infections and by non-infectious causes such as lupus and other inflammatory diseases.

Alcohol is another cause of cardiomyopathy. In some patients (probably determined by genetic predisposition), alcohol acts as a powerful toxin to heart muscle, directly damaging cardiac cells. Alcoholic cardiomyopathy can be seen after as few of five years of excessive alcohol intake.

Condolences to family and friends.
Nad
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Old 22nd September 2008, 21:13   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) View Original Post
Very few pathologists are aware of the links between retained CO2 and heart attacks.
Have any studies been done?
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Old 23rd September 2008, 08:21   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) View Original Post
Another heart attack on a rebreather.

At 90msw, where the victim's problems started, the WOB on is Habanero must have been pretty high.

Alex
Why, I assume they had a high helium mix, so see no reason why WOB would be a problem in normal dive position floating down the line, maybe current?

No mention of current or using scooters which I think is important on deeper dives.

No BOV's on the units in the photos and small back tanks on some of the pictures. Did they bail on ascent?

Does anyone know why they have male qc6s on the switch blocks?

Regards


Hugh

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Old 23rd September 2008, 09:46   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc) View Original Post
Have any studies been done?
There are lots showing extremely high rises in blood pressure with increasing blood CO2 levels. It is taught as fundamentals of anaesthesia.
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Old 23rd September 2008, 10:22   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

Quote: (Originally Posted by Hugh) View Original Post
No BOV's on the units in the photos and small back tanks on some of the pictures. Did they bail on ascent?

Does anyone know why they have male qc6s on the switch blocks?

If I read the report right, of the 4 cylinders (size?) he was carrying 3 were full and one empty:
> Is 1 enough gas for SCR descent to 90m & then ascent to 6m on OC?
> If 3 of the 4 cylinders were still full, what gas was used prior to the hypoxic mix, did he even switch gases on descent from a surface breathable gas?

With regard to the male QC-6, IIRC it was posted by someone on Rebreather World (within past 2 years: Boris thread?) that the male QC-6's are more prone to damage, they may have copied this advice - does it really matter provided all of the team are standardised?

Regards
Brad

Last edited by Brad_Horn; 23rd September 2008 at 10:23.. Reason: typo
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Old 23rd September 2008, 11:06   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brad_Horn) View Original Post
If I read the report right, of the 4 cylinders (size?) he was carrying 3 were full and one empty:
> Is 1 enough gas for SCR descent to 90m & then ascent to 6m on OC?
> If 3 of the 4 cylinders were still full, what gas was used prior to the hypoxic mix, did he even switch gases on descent from a surface breathable gas?

With regard to the male QC-6, IIRC it was posted by someone on Rebreather World (within past 2 years: Boris thread?) that the male QC-6's are more prone to damage, they may have copied this advice - does it really matter provided all of the team are standardised?

Regards
Brad
My query about the QC6 males is not related to accident analysis, just not sure why. All my regs are the same config and have male cheaters, thus my switchblock has female qc's. Maybe right tank has female and left is plugged with male being independents?

There is no info about gassess used, what point switched from oc/scr. If was struggling at 90metres, and asceneded on the unit this could have contributed. They talk about 4 tanks, I note they are independent, do they count the two back tanks as 2 of the 4 or are they talking 4 stages?

Lots of questions, obviously with manifolded back tanks of an appropriate size, you could comfortably descend to the wreck on oc, switch to scr, do the dive and still have plenty of gas to bail back to scr. If your relying on a single bottom gas tank, this may not work and may lead to a reluctance to bail.

Note: I am interested in learning/understanding, im not critisizing, im not an expert.

Regards


Hugh

Last edited by Hugh; 23rd September 2008 at 11:56..
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Old 23rd September 2008, 11:19   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Czech Habanero PASCR fatality of Croatia

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brad_Horn) View Original Post
If I read the report right, of the 4 cylinders (size?) he was carrying 3 were full and one empty:
> Is 1 enough gas for SCR descent to 90m & then ascent to 6m on OC?
> If 3 of the 4 cylinders were still full, what gas was used prior to the hypoxic mix, did he even switch gases on descent from a surface breathable gas?

With regard to the male QC-6, IIRC it was posted by someone on Rebreather World (within past 2 years: Boris thread?) that the male QC-6's are more prone to damage, they may have copied this advice - does it really matter provided all of the team are standardised?

Regards
Brad
they bhad traveling bgases and did all the switches correctly. The other tanks had around 150 bars left ( nso not realy full). This should be about right on the consuption, specialy if I assume they had more than 200bars to start with. Why the 4th tank was empty nobody knows.
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