port erin verdict

si_b_lanzarote

i'm not sure if anyone has posted this, i know this inquest created ALOT of debate and controversy, and thus everyone was asked to cease all forms of colloquy until the coroner had delivered his verdict, well here it is:

:: Manx Radio :: Isle of Man News ::

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http://www.thediveshoplanzarote.com

jptaylor9

The full coroner's inquest report is available: Inquest Report

Drmike

wow.

just finished reading coroners findings.


Its clear he had little choice declaring an open verdict as theres no way to prove the batteries bounced or prove he didnt turn it on.

I was surprised to read representation from the factory disputing that 'battery bounce was a known problem' and that 'its never happened to a unit correctly assembled and maintained' Isnt battery bounce a known problem?

hasnt it been seen/reported and discussed before both here and on the inspo list? I thought it had been.

Or by 'maintained' do they mean 'sent back to factory for chargeable 'upgrade' to better battery pack?


Or is it the case that the battery bounce (if it indeed exists) will only happen if the pins/spring are allowed to corode (ie the unit isnt properly maintained) ?


Not trying to pick a fight, just genuinely asking.


It also looks like Alex didnt do himself or the family many favours by so clearly demonstrating his enthusiasm. On that note I thought Alex said he was asked by the courts to submit the report? the coroner made a special point of making it clear it was unsolicited.am I right about that?



Tracking the drop in poo2 in the short time of the dive apears to be the best tool we have to workout what happened and it does to me sound more likely that the unit must have had a very low ppo2 at jump in, suggesting that it indeed either wasnt turned on or turned on imediately before jumping in and battery bounce switched it off before ppo2 had chance to raise. But that being the case I dont see why any user would instinctively turn the handsets on then off again once discovered. Instinct would i suggest force one to leave them on even if they arent working. I also doubt anyone would stay on the unit if they discovered it off and couldnt restart it by turning it on,if and if they did I cant see then turning it off again and not instead going straight to bail gas. Of course it may have been switched off by accident when the body was recovered. I know when we pulled Robs body into the boat one of the handsets got knocked off.

alas we will never know for certain.


what can we learn from this?

I do predive test before EVERY dive
The last stage of that test is 100%o2 flush to check cal.

I therefore always start every dive with a high ppo2.

If that had happened here even if unit was switched off or if batteries did bounce it would have taken some time to become a problem


everyone please check your battery boxes for signs of corrosion/issues and pump up that ppo2!

__________________
Cave diving is a sport
Wreck diving is a sport
Diving in general is a sport

'Rebreather diving' is not a sport
its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment

AD_ward9

My work was commissioned by the family.

If this case moves to a civil court it will allow the different expert evidence to be tested vigorously, to the point where the events that actually took place can be given a known degree of certainty, and the contributing factors determined, so there can be a final closure on this sad accident.

Alex

jkaterenchuk

Add to the list.....

the manufacturer is running a business for profit they are not your friend.

John

Ilikerisk

I'm really curious about the profile that APD presented for what would have happened if he started with his handsets turned off. Factoring that he (like a normal diver) probably had a breath or two on the boat before "walking" in (as the coroner oddly put it), and a few more at the surface before descending, I would have thought that he'd have become hypoxic and gone unconscious quite rapidly especially with a hypoxic mixture. But don't we know from his computer that he was active for 7 minutes or so?

Maybe I have it wrong...

Ilikerisk

It really depends on what one means by "proof." Generally, in a civil dispute, the plaintiff has "proven" their case if, after hearing all the evidence, the finder of fact decides that it is more likely than not that the plaintiff's view of events is correct. The inquest report does not say, but it seems the sense of the report that a different standard was being applied.

Drmike

Perhaps the coroner emphasised the 'walking-in' to indicate the drop height to the water (12-18 inches) wasnt very high in light of the suggestion batteries could bounce on drop impact with water? (interesting to note that battery bounce was demo'd dropping just 4 inches onto hard surface. Whats the deceleration force from 12-18" onto water compared to 4" to hard surface?)


Assuming fully loaded diver weight is 100kg
drop height is 12" to water then sinks 1m before stopping

Impact force = 1303N

a 1kg battery pack falling 10cm onto a hard surface

Impact force = 9.8N


Hmm I think thats correct (perhaps someone can check my maths)

Hmm Perhaps whats actually more important is the rate of deceleration?

from the coronors report the time from start of dive to surfacing was 2mins

anyone want to do the maths?

__________________
Cave diving is a sport
Wreck diving is a sport
Diving in general is a sport

'Rebreather diving' is not a sport
its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment

Devils Advocate

Having skipped through the report it was interesting to note that the deceased was not qualified on the unit?? Could have something to do with it!!!!

I have witnessed a very qualified CCR diver do a pre breathe, jump in the water and swim to the reef with the handsets turned off. Total time from putting the mouthpiece in to unconsciousness - 3 minutes. Luckily they survived to dive another day. It doesnt take long for hypoxia to strike.

Aaron.

Drmike

yeh I was surprised to read that too.

Surprisingly (from the report) that didnt seem to be an issue or a consideration for the coroner or the factory.

Guess it doesnt effect product -fitness for purpose? Lets hope we never come to a time when we have to prove diver -fitness for purpose! ..although that may save a few lives

__________________
Cave diving is a sport
Wreck diving is a sport
Diving in general is a sport

'Rebreather diving' is not a sport
its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment