ADV scare

**Dsix36** · 7th October 2007, 17:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I bet you a beer that you will change your mind after a life-threatening open-loop incident...

please elaborate - what do you mean

I guess the bet is on

decoweenie · 7th October 2007, 18:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

please elaborate - what do you mean

Do a Search (on the menu bar) on the words "open loop" to read all of the threads discussed about it in the past. And its usage...

In very short descriptions, you breath out thru the nose (or side of lips) to dump the loop gas. Then breath in, activating the ADV to add fresh diluent.

If the ADV is very tight, you will feel like breathing thru a straw.

Quote:

I guess the bet is on

Just tighten your ADV and try open loop at the end of your next dive until you are about to exhaust the diluent just before you surface.

Then PM for my shipping address to send the beer...

**Dsix36** · 7th October 2007, 18:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Do a Search (on the menu bar) on the words "open loop" to read all of the threads discussed about it in the past. And its usage...

I know what open loop is, just didn't understand the rest of it

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

If the ADV is very tight, you will feel like breathing thru a straw.

I don't have it set THAT tight, just enough that it is noticeable with normal light breathing. When overexerted and breathing hard it is not noticeable at all.

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Just tighten your ADV and try open loop at the end of your next dive until you are about to exhaust the diluent just before you surface.

I have sucked my lungs out of my chest enough to now better than to try that

Hell, I already did it, not with it adjusted too tight but turned off. I didn't like it then either

I am just saying that it should be adjusted just tight enough so that it can be noticed when firing (on demand). But not so tight as to cause extreme WOB in a crisis situation.

But I am still a newbie and learnig about this stuff. The way that my ADV is adjusted seems to work very very well for me. I do not have any problem with getting dil from the ADV whenever I need it. I must admit, that it took about a dozen trys to get it adjusted properly for the way I wanted it to work

***jradomski*** · 8th October 2007, 16:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

OK, I know that this post is no big deal (now I know this, didn't back then), but with the recent posts about ADV's and if they should be turned off or not has prompted me to write this post.

I was a pretty confident OC advanced water diver and could deal with any situation with ease because of my training and every thing being drilled into my head until it was second nature. Then I bought a Dolphin and had to learn a bunch of new stuff and get it drilled into my head. For a couple of years, I dove with both my SCR and OC, just which ever one struck my fancy at the time. I never had any problems or issues with jumping back and forth from SCR and OC.

Now I have an Optima and dive CCR. I needed more training and more drilling, no big deal right, I am already SCR certified. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! Bouyancy would be the same as SCR right? Except that I always dive a little bit negative and will sink if I stop moving. I was always afraid of a runaway ascent (my buddy in my first OC class did this) so I stayed negative at all times. First thing was to relearn bouyancy as neutral instead of negative (got that now).

Back to the issue at hand. I was taught to turn off the ADV once on the bottom. I always forgot, my instructor tried to tell me this undwater, but I did not understand. He just reached over and turned it off for me. I had no idea what he did. I was still venting out my nose and loosing a lot of loop volumn. Guess what? I suddenly could not get a breathe, I bailed to OC, I figured it out and turned the ADV back on, went back on the loop and finished the dive.

I was so used to the undersupply valve of my previous SCR that I was not familiar with "turning my lungs inside out" and still not being able to breathe. As I fine tuned my skills, I found that having the ADV off at depth is fine. It reminds me of descents (I tend to wander around and not pay attention to my depth, I just go up and down wherever things are), warns about loss of loop volumn, and warns if I am breathing too hard.

Next senario: Since I can't remember to turn of the ADV at depth, why not leave it off? I will just add dil manually during descent. Pretty simple, now all I have to remember is to change my setpoint at depth. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! I was still in training and not very familiar with my rig yet. I jumped in and started to kick my way down. I had no idea just how fast my lungs would collapse upon descent. At about 10ft I could not breathe and went for the manual add button. I could not find it (yes, I was sh*tting myself) by 20ft I was turned over and no longer descending but didnt have the breathe to ascend either. I went for bailout and (seemed like slow motion) decided that I did not have time to:
1-pull tank from under my armpit
2-turn tank on
3-grab regulator
4-purge
5-breathe
I made a last chance grab for the ADV valve (I must have made it, how else am I writing this :-) This is a lesson for the Rebreather novices like I was/am. If you have an ADV on your unit USE IT. I was at 30ft before I got a breathe and have never been that close to passing out from lack of air. My lungs hurt just from thinking about that day.

I know that my grammar and paragraph structure really sucks, but I hope that I got my mistakes across. My intent is for this information to possibly help prevent another near miss.

Why do all the threads that I start make me look stupid?

I gotta stop diverting from the norm

The scenarios you describe is exactly why I don't let students use the ADV at all on initial training dives.. On units where the adv can be easily disabled, It gets disabled so that the diver becomes confortable with manual loop control.. Once this is mastered, the diver is allowed to use the ADV.. In this way they don't panic when the loop gets low and they instinctively get to know where the manual add is.. Personally the only time I ever use my ADV's are on dives where I know I will need both my hands available during a descent.. I prefer the manual control of the loop since gas only gets added when I want it added.. The ADV is a mere convenience when I need it..

**Dsix36** · 14th October 2007, 15:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

If you have an ADV on your unit USE IT.

I know that I am quoting myself!

I still believe in my previous statement. I think that I need to expand upon it after yesterdays dive.

My buddy and I were the only divers on the boat that were doing a second dive. Everyone else was chumming the water and decided not to dive again. We were in a big rush to get back in the water for our second dive. We were going to do a drift dive on a wreck in 72'. I had the flag and the current was picking up. By the time that we hit the water I was already breathing very hard and the ADV was keeping up well. The problem was that I could not decend. I flipped over and kicked 3 times and just popped back up. I finally figured that I couldn't keep my loop volumn small enough with the ADV open and my heavy breathing. I turned off the ADV, dumped some of the loop, and tried again, It worked, I was descending. I had to add dil manually a couple of time (I can now find the add button quickly

). Then I turned the ADV back on for the rest of the descent.

Yes, we missed the wreck and landed on the sand

but I found it within 150' so we had a good dive after all.

My buddy was a tourist from Phoenix diving OC air (not even Nitrox). I am glad that the dive was good for him. He got to interact with a nd photograph a large moray eel and a stingray.

Off subject

Anyway I guess that the ADV is personel preference, but I still believe that it is best to leave it on if possible

7th October 2007, 17:25	#11 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,080	Re: ADV scare Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I bet you a beer that you will change your mind after a life-threatening open-loop incident... please elaborate - what do you mean I guess the bet is on __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Online)

7th October 2007, 18:34	#12 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: ADV scare Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) please elaborate - what do you mean Do a Search (on the menu bar) on the words "open loop" to read all of the threads discussed about it in the past. And its usage... In very short descriptions, you breath out thru the nose (or side of lips) to dump the loop gas. Then breath in, activating the ADV to add fresh diluent. If the ADV is very tight, you will feel like breathing thru a straw. Quote: I guess the bet is on Just tighten your ADV and try open loop at the end of your next dive until you are about to exhaust the diluent just before you surface. Then PM for my shipping address to send the beer...
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7th October 2007, 18:58	#13 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,080	Re: ADV scare Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Do a Search (on the menu bar) on the words "open loop" to read all of the threads discussed about it in the past. And its usage... I know what open loop is, just didn't understand the rest of it Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) If the ADV is very tight, you will feel like breathing thru a straw. I don't have it set THAT tight, just enough that it is noticeable with normal light breathing. When overexerted and breathing hard it is not noticeable at all. Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Just tighten your ADV and try open loop at the end of your next dive until you are about to exhaust the diluent just before you surface. I have sucked my lungs out of my chest enough to now better than to try that Hell, I already did it, not with it adjusted too tight but turned off. I didn't like it then either I am just saying that it should be adjusted just tight enough so that it can be noticed when firing (on demand). But not so tight as to cause extreme WOB in a crisis situation. But I am still a newbie and learnig about this stuff. The way that my ADV is adjusted seems to work very very well for me. I do not have any problem with getting dil from the ADV whenever I need it. I must admit, that it took about a dozen trys to get it adjusted properly for the way I wanted it to work __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Online)

8th October 2007, 16:54	#14 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,023	Re: ADV scare Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) OK, I know that this post is no big deal (now I know this, didn't back then), but with the recent posts about ADV's and if they should be turned off or not has prompted me to write this post. I was a pretty confident OC advanced water diver and could deal with any situation with ease because of my training and every thing being drilled into my head until it was second nature. Then I bought a Dolphin and had to learn a bunch of new stuff and get it drilled into my head. For a couple of years, I dove with both my SCR and OC, just which ever one struck my fancy at the time. I never had any problems or issues with jumping back and forth from SCR and OC. Now I have an Optima and dive CCR. I needed more training and more drilling, no big deal right, I am already SCR certified. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! Bouyancy would be the same as SCR right? Except that I always dive a little bit negative and will sink if I stop moving. I was always afraid of a runaway ascent (my buddy in my first OC class did this) so I stayed negative at all times. First thing was to relearn bouyancy as neutral instead of negative (got that now). Back to the issue at hand. I was taught to turn off the ADV once on the bottom. I always forgot, my instructor tried to tell me this undwater, but I did not understand. He just reached over and turned it off for me. I had no idea what he did. I was still venting out my nose and loosing a lot of loop volumn. Guess what? I suddenly could not get a breathe, I bailed to OC, I figured it out and turned the ADV back on, went back on the loop and finished the dive. I was so used to the undersupply valve of my previous SCR that I was not familiar with "turning my lungs inside out" and still not being able to breathe. As I fine tuned my skills, I found that having the ADV off at depth is fine. It reminds me of descents (I tend to wander around and not pay attention to my depth, I just go up and down wherever things are), warns about loss of loop volumn, and warns if I am breathing too hard. Next senario: Since I can't remember to turn of the ADV at depth, why not leave it off? I will just add dil manually during descent. Pretty simple, now all I have to remember is to change my setpoint at depth. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! I was still in training and not very familiar with my rig yet. I jumped in and started to kick my way down. I had no idea just how fast my lungs would collapse upon descent. At about 10ft I could not breathe and went for the manual add button. I could not find it (yes, I was shtting myself) by 20ft I was turned over and no longer descending but didnt have the breathe to ascend either. I went for bailout and (seemed like slow motion) decided that I did not have time to: 1-pull tank from under my armpit 2-turn tank on 3-grab regulator 4-purge 5-breathe I made a last chance grab for the ADV valve (I must have made it, how else am I writing this :-) This is a lesson for the Rebreather novices like I was/am. If you have an ADV on your unit USE IT. I was at 30ft before I got a breathe and have never been that close to passing out from lack of air. My lungs hurt just from thinking about that day. I know that my grammar and paragraph structure really sucks, but I hope that I got my mistakes across. My intent is for this information to possibly help prevent another near miss. Why do all the threads that I start make me look stupid? I gotta stop diverting from the norm The scenarios you describe is exactly why I don't let students use the ADV at all on initial training dives.. On units where the adv can be easily disabled, It gets disabled so that the diver becomes confortable with manual loop control.. Once this is mastered, the diver is allowed to use the ADV.. In this way they don't panic when the loop gets low and they instinctively get to know where the manual add is.. Personally the only time I ever use my ADV's are on dives where I know I will need both my hands available during a descent.. I prefer the manual control of the loop since gas only gets added when I want it added.. The ADV is a mere convenience when I need it.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI* Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 15th October 2007 at 23:41.
(Online)

14th October 2007, 15:42	#15 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,080	Re: ADV scare Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) If you have an ADV on your unit USE IT. I know that I am quoting myself! I still believe in my previous statement. I think that I need to expand upon it after yesterdays dive. My buddy and I were the only divers on the boat that were doing a second dive. Everyone else was chumming the water and decided not to dive again. We were in a big rush to get back in the water for our second dive. We were going to do a drift dive on a wreck in 72'. I had the flag and the current was picking up. By the time that we hit the water I was already breathing very hard and the ADV was keeping up well. The problem was that I could not decend. I flipped over and kicked 3 times and just popped back up. I finally figured that I couldn't keep my loop volumn small enough with the ADV open and my heavy breathing. I turned off the ADV, dumped some of the loop, and tried again, It worked, I was descending. I had to add dil manually a couple of time (I can now find the add button quickly ). Then I turned the ADV back on for the rest of the descent. Yes, we missed the wreck and landed on the sand but I found it within 150' so we had a good dive after all. My buddy was a tourist from Phoenix diving OC air (not even Nitrox). I am glad that the dive was good for him. He got to interact with a nd photograph a large moray eel and a stingray. Off subject Anyway I guess that the ADV is personel preference, but I still believe that it is best to leave it on if possible __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Online)

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