Still curious of what happened - still confused.

Outlaw

Hi guys,

this one is going to be long. i've had quite an experience last summer, and the more i read jhaaa's story with the o2 hit, the more i think it happened to me. but still some things dont make sense to me. i am certainly impressed with the information one might gather from the contributions from others, so this is the reason i feel i need to post what happened to me.

here is goes.

i live in Cyprus, Nicosia which is the capital, and each timei have to dive i need to travel around with the car for nearly an hour. last year we decided, my buddy and i, to do something wild, which was to test our silent submersion scooters, and try to dive zenobia wreck from shore via scooters.

for those who know, we parked our car and geared up from Dive-In Larnaca, and the plan was to take a bearing, and then go straight to zenobia, do the dive, and get back.

once we were there, and we entered the water we realized that due to rough seas in the previous days, for a strange reason visibility was really bad. i mean this was the first time that such vis was seen in larnaca. off course it was shallow so the sand was stirred up but, there was no way to abort, because i work all day and the only time i had the chance to dive was either on saturdays or sundays, and that was if i could get away form kids and family...(point A)

then i realised that i was underweight. that was still in 5-6 metres just before we took off. (point B) i spent so much time trying to change set up on my unit, and each time i had the chance to test it and see results, it happened that that was my time to dive, so i wouldn't give up the dive and call it a day...

so i ended having very little air in my drysuit, but once we were scootering and getting deeper then it was ok. well, it took us nearly 40 minutes to travel the distance and finally hit zenobia, we were excited when we foung it because this was the first time to try such a thing. we ended up playing along the bottom, trying to speak to each other (you all know how easy it is to speak to each other via mouthpiece, where as in oc there is no way you can do that). where i am getting at is that we spent so much time on the bottom, 40m, so nitrogen started getting us, well me at least. (point C)

i remember i started raising my PPo2 to 1.4 so i would have less nitrogen which at the beggining seemed to work. i also remember that i was on 40m, right under the front of the ship and was doing flash, and i was getting something like 1.05 and was still pushing aiming to get .21 ... thinking about it so many times over and over, just makes me realize how badly i pushed my limits. well, am lucky i am here to tell.

so, i signalled my buddy and we ascended and completed our trip on zenobia but this time between 20-25m, again scootering around, which made me feel fine for a while, once narcosis was no problem. i remember first signs were tunnel vision, i think. just because my mind was still thinking why i could not get the .21 reading on my display, i took a stop and sat around and tried that damn flashing again just to get the .21 reading. believe me i've tried. still i could not get it and still could not understand why. (Point D)

so , after that we decided that it was time to head back cause we both started feeling the effects of exposure to nitrogen. there was a point where i thought of ascending and going back with the boat, but either due to problems that would have been created with this ( boat was going to harbour, we needed to get elsewhere) i thought that i'll go along. besides, i've had worst dives, i thought... (Point E)

so, we went to the back of the ship, and this time my buddy sort of wanted to lead so he pointed the direction to head, while i said no and we had a mini argument as to which direction, then i said ok. since time was going, i said ok, and we took off. i remember he was 2-3 metres in front of me, slightly to my right, and we were scootering when i felt a strong feeling to "hiccup", this was happening but in lesser extend before, so i tried to go through it, and suddenly i felt i wanted to throw up. this was happening really fast.in my head, i remember the thoughts going through my mind so fast. was i going to stop scootering, that way i would not be able to alert my buddy, and we would loose each other. was i not going to dothat, i was going to throw up and fill my hose with the product... there was no way to reach my arm and grab him, or make that noise ( imagine the sound of scooter) so i let the accelerator off, and in a split second i mananaged to close the dsv with one hand and grab my stage reg with the other. at that time i did threw up.

after i stuck the reg in my mouth, and took a long a deep breath, dont remember if it was one long or many short ones, the fact is that i did manage to throw up, cough and spit through that reg, my mind was constantly on my buddy, and i raised my head up to see him, believe me, i will never forget the image of him scootering away and gong through something that seemed like a cloud or particles and he dissappeared.just like that. he was going, and going and then he was gone. another weird thing was that i remember his fins just getting smaller and smaller but the colour i remember was white. while his are black. never mind this bit. i kept telling him after and he could not understand. nor do i, untill today.

well, since i decided that we were lost from each other, i sat on the bottom, cause with the sligth raise, i was feeling the effects of gas volume change and no weights, so i thought i sit on the bottom and stayed there for 3-5 minutes to calm down, take breaths from stage, and then either he would come back, or i would just go all the way. to remember which way i took my knife and positioned it on the bottom pointing the direction that i last remember my buddy going. just to get the picture, i stayed there 3-5 minutes, i could hear his motor going, then stopping, then going then stopping, he was very close to me, i was sure that he noticed i was gone and he was looking for me, and by that time my knife was nearly burried by the particles on sand flying in the water. it was scary to think of getting lost, so i made sure i kept my eyes on the direction i was to follow and reposition the knife. i heard him go on and off a couple of more times and then i could hear a constant running.

by that time, i was feeling good, i could see my VR3 stating 10-15 minutes of deco so i went back on the loop, and tried to chase my buddy. at times i would stop and listen for him, he would stop as well, probably listen for me.

depth was changing so fast and because my solenoid needed to keep up with 1.3 it kept pumping air in the lungs, which made my very boyant and many times i had to turn the scooter downwards to go down and not fly to the surface.

i decided to give it a rest. i had lost my buddy, there was no way i was going to catch up with him, so i prayed that he was ok and he made it out fine. i really prayed he did not turn back for me because the distance was about 1.5 km from shore to zenobia wreck, and i did not think our batteries (silent submersion UV-26) would allow him to do that. i had hoped he thought of that and follow his plan as if he was alone. at these situations things get to you. i was thinking what was i going to say to his family, how to confront them, and believe me, i've had tears in my mask. it was as if he was dead...

i sat down on thebottom, trying to relax and go through the deco, after i had lowered my set point to 0.7, so the solenoid would not pump and do it manually, each time stopping and trowing my knife on the bottom to the direction i was to follow.

time was going by. i was looking at my watch, and i knew that my wife would have been on the beach in 10 minutes, as pre - planned to have summer lunch with friends. i was imagining what she would be like? i was thinking about the constant talking i was to go through for being late...

by that time, my buddy was already out, and the exact time he was getting out of the water, my wife was coming with my son, and when she saw him only, she said to him in a joking way, " what happened to the other one? he drown?" you cannot believe how my buddy felt like as he later told me that in a split second his heart went to 1000rpm and back and he froze he said something like " he's coming now, he's testing something"...

my wife left angry ( for me being late again, and spoiling another weekend for my diving and not taking the family out again)..and he was there not knowing what to do.

in the mean time i had finished my deco and i was at 9m, and some boats or jet skis were going vertical above my head. i thought of getting the marker deployed, but then i did not want to drag that with the scooter as i felt the batteries were not going to last for long. so i did not and was joking with myself, that if the whole dive thing did not kill me, those jet skis will.

besides i didn't know if i was correct on my direction, and that was worrying as well. eventually my batteries went near dead, so i started to push myself with finning. that was some thing. it was so hard, and i was exausted, not good sleep the night before, (Point F) hard working througout the week, very tiring days, finish work on friday night and spent the night preparing stuff for the dive next day (Point G) and get up next morning to load stuff on car, calibrate and trave to larnaca, all go to me.

eventually with many talks with myself i reach to a point where i was 3-4 m, and i thought of going to the surface and see if i was ok. you cannot believe my suprise when i realized i was about 500m away from the target and right in front of me, i could see the beach with allthose sunbathing and children playing on the shore. there was no way i would go out through there, so i just said, "what the hell, sh*t happens", so i turned to my right, and got down and kept finning and finning, trying to go to where i was supposed to.

after about 15 minuts of finning, i decided to get above again, and check out and to my suprise, i had bearly moved...that was pissing me off. i went down again, and kept on for about another 10 minutes, this time giving it all on finning and scoteing. (scoter was dead, prop was turning but had no power. just kept going so i would not have to drag it.) and when i got up i head a loud shout, "Spyrossssssss" i turned around and i saw the image of my buddy, swimming through the waves, trying to get to me. that was one of the most touching moments of my life. it was like in the films. he was ok. i was glad... he told me he got out at that exact point and he went through the beach and people were looking at him like they were looking at James Bond coming out of the water with the car in that movie... he left his stuff there, and ran to the target destination, alerted the lifeguards, where they were doing a search for me. they were looking for a marker, which i did not use and then the boat came to me. they dropped me a line and they pulled me all the way to where i was supposed to go to.

we came out and didn't say a word to the others looking amazed. i only told Chris was happened, my battaties ran out. i did not change my scooter the night before, just because i thought that i would damage the batteries, doing over and over. i had done it last week, so i thought it would be ok. my buddy told me that his just bearly took him back.

anyway i was dead tired, we went over what happened, i told him mine, he told me his story, he came back, he could hear my scooter, he would stop for me to wait, but he was worrying that i might pass by him, so he charged up and went straight for the shore, hoping that i would be ok.

when i came home, after pointless efforts to explain what happened, i opened my cannister and found that i had a lot of water in it. here is what my scrubber looked like.


DSC_0095.JPG

DSC_0106.JPG

after reading a lot of articles in here and going through a lot of other reading, i thought that what made me vommit or hiccup was an 02 hit. but reading all the caustic coctail articles, is it possible to continue on the loop even if half of it is wet?

anyway, i really took some learning by this. the points i emphesized are the major things i was going wrong. because i spent the last year adding componets, changing tanks, undergarment, backplate, put an argon tank, helmet with lights, taking different stage tank eact time, i really did not do check. my time is limited. so the little time i had, i tried to do it all together.

this was wrong. now, my time, is MY TIME, and this is when i cool off from life's ever continuing pressures. i take things slowly. i dont dive if my unit is not set up for good. i am about to finish additions to my unit, and that is it. nothing else. am tired of changing stuff all the time.

again, other factors affecting my ability to dive, are really taken into consideration. i am 30 now, and not 20 when i was in the army and being able to do wild stuff. so i don't push it, nor i take chances. this past year has rreally made me a better diver, even though i deal with underwater activities for nearly 18 years now, i still think i have a lot to learn.

this is probably the longest post ever on Rebreather World, i doubt if anyone did have time to go through it at once. just thought of sharing this experience, and hopefully others will take notice of my "mistakes" and watch out for themselves.

Cheers all,

Spyros.

P.S sorry for breaking your b**ls. had to tell the whole story.

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JonnyB

Glad you are safe!

/Jonny

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PeteS

Sounds like a CO2 breakthrough to me.

Glad you survived. Is the wife still pissed at you?

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Pete S.

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Every silver lining has a cloud

MrClive

hey mate, good to hear you got back and all was well at the end. could have been nasty, trying to get sick on the loop while scootering and trying to get a hold of your buddy thanks for sharing

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clive

LakeLover

Outlaw,

First, glad you are safe!

Second; glad your buddy is safe,

Third, glad you are still married!!

diverreb

Glad your all OK & learned some valuable lessons.... Gotta tell you I got a kick out of the above... 30 now.... not 20.... Dude, just wait til you reach 58!

Richie

tibby

Hey Spyros, glad you've lived through that ordeal and you are safe. I wish I could be of more help with an explanation but I can't. I'll stay tuned hoping an answer turns out because your story scares the crap out of me.
It is amaizing how close calls put things into perspective, isn't it.
Best wishes,
Tibby

Abbo

I don't suppose, by any chance, you have a PO2 readout? What do you think your maximum PO2 was? - or do you think your sensors were current limited (because of being wet?), so the PO2 readings are unreliable anyway?

It seems most likely that your Meg flooded when you bailed out, doesn't it? My understanding is that it takes quite a lot to flood a Meg: was it perhaps partly open the whole time you were on OC? You don't mention at any point headaches, or ultra-heavy breathing, which makes scrubber breakthough sound unlikely doesn't it?

I often worry that I react to sleep deprivation, from a heavy work schedule and having young kids, by over-dosing on coffee: it concerns me that the caffeine coursing through my veins pre-disposes me to ox-tox hits. You don't sound like you were on tip-top condition when you did this dive.

I'm relieved you got out of this OK - shaken but not stirred. Thank you for sharing your experiences: I, for one, learn a lot from these close shave stories.
Cheers,
Nicholas

Outlaw

hello guys,

thanks for your comments and wishes. i have to say that even though all these took place, there is not a chance in the world that i wouldn't do the wildest dive with my buddy. just to clarify this, cause after reading this again, maybe i let him down.

for Jonny:

thanks mate, it was a good experience. learned a lot.

For PeteS:

i thought it was an o2 hit as well. epsecially after reading Jhaaa's thread and experience along with the posts from others. Wife was pissed, but got used to it. i just dont pay attention to the buzz anymore. what is there to explain..?

To Clive:

thank you too mate for the wishes.

To Lake Lover:

thanks a lot. i must say you made me laugh

well, i have another baby now, so that will keep the wife busy i guess

To diverreb:

you gave me a laugh as well! don't know how things are when i'll be 58. i hope i get to that age. i am sure you have a lot more to share.

To Tibby:

thanks for the wishes. and yes, it is amazing how fast things happen. my aim was to bring a few thing to others minds. am glad you like it.

To Abbo:

i dont know what you mean really. i was constantly looking at my display. most of the time was 1.2 and then 1.4 and sometimes over. by that time i was not well aware of the dangers of tox, or how suddenly it can happen. now, after having a few talks with more experience divers and instructors, i dive 1.1 or even 1 on the bottom and 1.3 on ascent. that's it. i case i do a longer dive i add some He to the diluent. remember at the time i was only Mod1 but now am Mod3 so no problem with that.

that also demonstrates why on Mod1 you are only allowed to go into 5 minutes or so into deco. we did push the limits, and on air, narcosis gets to you.

i think the sensors were ok, cause flooding can only get through the loop and the return goes straight into th bottom of the meg. dont knwo really.

you are right, i was not in my best condition that day. i tried to do everything you see. since you have young kids, then you know the hassle. so when you get a free day, you try to do it all. you end up frustrated cause you don't enjoy your dive and then monday morning and work again and routine comes back.

To all: my big question, since i am still confused on what happened is:

if the unit was flooded, either by not good seal with my lips because of constant scootering, (you tried scootering to see how the mouthpiece is being dragged and how bad you have to bite it?)maybe some water might have gone through there, i was wondering if any fumes could lead to my throwing up. Do you get fumes if some water is mixed up with scrubber? i did not feel anyting in my mouth, caustic or anything, but maybe fumes. i've never had it before, so i dont know. the experts shall tell us this.

and then, when i threw up and if the unit got flooded there, during the process of realeasing the mouthpiece, close it and grab the stage reg, then wouldn't i have some problem when i went back on the loop and finish the dive?

All this leads me to think that it must of been an O2 hit, but not because my CNS % was too high, because i kept changing my o2 set point. i need to read more about o2 convulsiions etc. i hope this will trigger a lot of information coming in.

Thanks to all guys. safe diving.

Spyros

__________________
CMAS - IANTD - TDI
Kamikazi Instrustor Trainer
DIRRebreather Team Member
----------------------------
"Once an Outlaw, always an Outlaw"

decoweenie

This is just IMHO since I have been scootering on Rebreather for a long time. The first thing I do with a DSV/BOV is building a chin rest.

If you are going to scooter, it is advisable to have a chin rest for whatever you are breathing on to relieve the drag thus the amount of biting on the mouth piece.

Biting the mouth piece hard will eventually ruin the mouth piece leading a potential bigger issue u/w. And it is not comfortable.

Some people are using longer bite piece to add security, but that doesn't take the pressure off from the top of the DSV/BOV resulting in pulling the DSV down. And that could result in a lead source around the upper lip area.

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