Lesson Learnt The Hard Way

Mark Chase · 7th August 2007, 08:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by colinicky)

They are held to the spider by a small nut & bolt & it had torn away round the bolt .Personally I think it is a weak point , as to the age of them I bought the BOV seconhand so have no clue but they do not appear or feel dry or stiff at all .

That will teach you to buy something from me

Far as I am aware the Bov is less than two years old. Off KISS Unit No184

Q: Did you cough during the dive? this always concerns me and i normaly do a hose crush test after such an incident in order to check the mushroom valves. I am a little concerned i can no longer do this with my shiney new Cooper hoses

ATB

Mark Chase

silent running · 7th August 2007, 16:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Sounds like an old, dry flapper valve which fell apart. My flapper sits in an all plastic/nylon spider, the rubber part being very wide at the base and being held in place by the narrow aperature of the spider means that the original parts were not taken so seriously....

My impression/2cs worth....

Sorry for the weird wording, posted too late at night. What makes a man get on his riding mower at 3AM? Must be the same thing that causes a man to post at 3AM-too much booze...

I meant to say that I don't like the idea of rubber being in held in place by a nut and bolt as it tends to cut into rubber and may eventually cause a rip, as colinicky said it did on his. Most flappers I've seen are held in place by squeezing a center stem of rubber through a tightly fitting hole in the center of a plastic spider, so only the rubber itself is holding it in place, no compression except when you're putting the flapper in place. This seems like a better way to go...

silent running · 7th August 2007, 16:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Q: Did you cough during the dive? this always concerns me and i normaly do a hose crush test after such an incident in order to check the mushroom valves. I am a little concerned i can no longer do this with my shiney new Cooper hoses

ATB

Mark Chase

Mark, have you ever blown out a flapper after a coughing? Never thought of this before, has it happened to anybody else?

Mark Chase · 7th August 2007, 17:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Mark, have you ever blown out a flapper after a coughing? Never thought of this before, has it happened to anybody else?

I am concerned about the power of the cough damaging the fragile valves and also the resultant greeny wedging it open a tad

As a result i always check after coughing.

ATB

Mark

jhaaja · 8th August 2007, 05:23

I can´t imagine that you could do any harm on a working and not flawed flabber valve by coughing. I guess problems might occur if the rubber part is not properly fixed to the surroundings. Then it might get loose and end flying up the exhale hose :O)

**wedivebc** · 10th August 2007, 14:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Just a word of advice here, the suck and blow tests on a removed loop to check the mushroom valves should be conducted gently.

If you use too much respiratory force, you can tear or invert the flaps on some units.

Be gentle.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Wouldn't it make more sense to stress test the valves where a failure would not be potentially fatal than to have it fail when you are working hard, or even coughing as has been mentioned above?

AD_ward9 · 10th August 2007, 14:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja)

I can´t imagine that you could do any harm on a working and not flawed flabber valve by coughing. I guess problems might occur if the rubber part is not properly fixed to the surroundings. Then it might get loose and end flying up the exhale hose :O)

Not quite true.

We use the "trumpet test", where you blow into the mouthpiece like blowing a trumpet: tongue on teeth, full cheeks, remove tongue. A lot of valves flip, or get caught under the spider when you do that. There is some FMECA stuff on this on the Deep Life Open Revolution site (FMECA Volume 4, in particular), including photos of the failure when the mushroom is not attached well enough, or there are not enough fingers on the spider.

"WediveBC" put it nicely. Too much kit is not been tested properly before it is sold.

Alex

Mike · 12th August 2007, 11:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Mark, have you ever blown out a flapper after a coughing? Never thought of this before, has it happened to anybody else?

Nope - and I've coughed my lungs out a few times on dives earlier this year. I'm pretty happy that if that didn't budge them, coughing never will.

(I also have decided to self diagnose myself as not having a shunting PFO as I didn't get bent on those dives)

Mike

7th August 2007, 08:52	#21 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,700	Re: Lesson Learnt The Hard Way Quote: (Originally Posted by colinicky) They are held to the spider by a small nut & bolt & it had torn away round the bolt .Personally I think it is a weak point , as to the age of them I bought the BOV seconhand so have no clue but they do not appear or feel dry or stiff at all . That will teach you to buy something from me Far as I am aware the Bov is less than two years old. Off KISS Unit No184 Q: Did you cough during the dive? this always concerns me and i normaly do a hose crush test after such an incident in order to check the mushroom valves. I am a little concerned i can no longer do this with my shiney new Cooper hoses ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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7th August 2007, 16:52	#22 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,834	Re: Lesson Learnt The Hard Way Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Sounds like an old, dry flapper valve which fell apart. My flapper sits in an all plastic/nylon spider, the rubber part being very wide at the base and being held in place by the narrow aperature of the spider means that the original parts were not taken so seriously.... My impression/2cs worth.... Sorry for the weird wording, posted too late at night. What makes a man get on his riding mower at 3AM? Must be the same thing that causes a man to post at 3AM-too much booze... I meant to say that I don't like the idea of rubber being in held in place by a nut and bolt as it tends to cut into rubber and may eventually cause a rip, as colinicky said it did on his. Most flappers I've seen are held in place by squeezing a center stem of rubber through a tightly fitting hole in the center of a plastic spider, so only the rubber itself is holding it in place, no compression except when you're putting the flapper in place. This seems like a better way to go...
(Online)

7th August 2007, 16:56	#23 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,834	Re: Lesson Learnt The Hard Way Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Q: Did you cough during the dive? this always concerns me and i normaly do a hose crush test after such an incident in order to check the mushroom valves. I am a little concerned i can no longer do this with my shiney new Cooper hoses ATB Mark Chase Mark, have you ever blown out a flapper after a coughing? Never thought of this before, has it happened to anybody else?
(Online)

7th August 2007, 17:16	#24 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,700	Re: Lesson Learnt The Hard Way Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Mark, have you ever blown out a flapper after a coughing? Never thought of this before, has it happened to anybody else? I am concerned about the power of the cough damaging the fragile valves and also the resultant greeny wedging it open a tad As a result i always check after coughing. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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8th August 2007, 05:23	#25 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 885	Re: Lesson Learnt The Hard Way I can´t imagine that you could do any harm on a working and not flawed flabber valve by coughing. I guess problems might occur if the rubber part is not properly fixed to the surroundings. Then it might get loose and end flying up the exhale hose :O)
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10th August 2007, 14:43	#26 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,446	Re: Lesson Learnt The Hard Way Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Just a word of advice here, the suck and blow tests on a removed loop to check the mushroom valves should be conducted gently. If you use too much respiratory force, you can tear or invert the flaps on some units. Be gentle. Cheers, Dave Cooper. Wouldn't it make more sense to stress test the valves where a failure would not be potentially fatal than to have it fail when you are working hard, or even coughing as has been mentioned above? __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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10th August 2007, 14:48	#27 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,875	Re: Lesson Learnt The Hard Way Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja) I can´t imagine that you could do any harm on a working and not flawed flabber valve by coughing. I guess problems might occur if the rubber part is not properly fixed to the surroundings. Then it might get loose and end flying up the exhale hose :O) Not quite true. We use the "trumpet test", where you blow into the mouthpiece like blowing a trumpet: tongue on teeth, full cheeks, remove tongue. A lot of valves flip, or get caught under the spider when you do that. There is some FMECA stuff on this on the Deep Life Open Revolution site (FMECA Volume 4, in particular), including photos of the failure when the mushroom is not attached well enough, or there are not enough fingers on the spider. "WediveBC" put it nicely. Too much kit is not been tested properly before it is sold. Alex Last edited by AD_ward9 : 10th August 2007 at 14:51.
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12th August 2007, 11:20	#28 (permalink)
Mike Prism 'prentice Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 329	Re: Lesson Learnt The Hard Way Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Mark, have you ever blown out a flapper after a coughing? Never thought of this before, has it happened to anybody else? Nope - and I've coughed my lungs out a few times on dives earlier this year. I'm pretty happy that if that didn't budge them, coughing never will. (I also have decided to self diagnose myself as not having a shunting PFO as I didn't get bent on those dives) Mike __________________ Open ....... Closed Mind ........ Loop
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