Boat Burnt down from O2 fire caused by Rebreather

P6017 · 5th March 2005, 18:22

After reading a post on another site I'd be very careful about setting up 02 fill stations at or near the home. The story details an unexplained 02 fire, originating at the rebreather, that burnt the boat to the water line. Not something I'd want to see happen in the basement.
Pete

decoweenie · 6th March 2005, 11:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by P6017)

The story details an unexplained 02 fire, originating at the rebreather, that burnt the boat to the water line.

Here is the picture of the boat burning while we were pickep up by another boat near-by. The boat eventually burned to the water line as mentioned and everything on board was destroyed.

***schford*** · 6th March 2005, 11:59

Thanks for the picture....

Is this where a fire spontaneously started just by turning the o2 on...

Glad your ok!!!

Were you stuck in the water long or could he get close enough in the pick you up - or was it swim like mad!

On another note - is the Rebreather diver liable for the damage caused to the boat?

Stuart

imdown · 6th March 2005, 13:50

When and where did this happen?

***schford*** · 6th March 2005, 15:32

Phi (Decoweenie's) original post iss below...

Quote:

I am trying to learn from doing a clinical accidental analysis on something
that happened recently, so please no flame war. If you don't have anything
useful to say, please refrain.

Could anyone give some possible reasons for a:

- relatively brand new first stage on O2 tank
- reg and tanks were O2-cleaned
- reg had 3 dives recently without problem

then on the 4th dive, this happened...

- O2 tank is turned on
- electronic is turned on
- low-set-point is established

and when the diver was picking the unit up to set on a higher surface on the
boat to don, all of the sudden with no loud explosion, big yellow flames
started continuously shooting out from the bottom of the unit like a big
blow torch.

I understand adiabatic compression could be the cause if something would
have happened at the moment the tank valve was turned on, but not a few
minutes later as if everything was fine.

Even if the hose was ruptured, where was the source of the spark to feed the
"fuel" ?

Again, let's work with just the "raw data" given without having to ask for
name of people/places/events. I am really trying to learn the possible
causes to prevent it from happening again in the future. That's all!

Thanks in advance for the help,

-Phi

I assume this was diving some where in the UAE...

Stuart

decoweenie · 6th March 2005, 17:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Were you stuck in the water long or could he get close enough in the pick you up - or was it swim like mad!

On another note - is the Rebreather diver liable for the damage caused to the boat?

We were lucky that the wreck was only ~12km from shore so plenty of traffic. We were picked up within 10-15 mins with 3 boats came to the rescue.

If it had been other sites that we go to (~50km off-shore) it would have been a long time before we get rescued.

I don't know how the insurance company will handle about the boat since it was insured. As far as the personal dive equipment lost (~US$30,000 total), I don't think anything was insured.

The person whose unit started the fire is a close friend, and he lost about 1/2 of the total lost by the group. I am not going to worry about my lost since it is much lighter when compared to his.

At the end of the day, it is only dive equipment that we all could replace over time. If anyone had died, it would have been a great lost to a lot of people that could never be replaced.

So be careful out there! Thus far, I can't see anything blantantly obvious how the fire got started -- especially the fire came ~3 mins after the tank was turned on -- which has always been my thinking that it would be almost instantenous. Learn something new...

decoweenie · 6th March 2005, 17:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by imdown)

When and where did this happen?

In the Gulf of Oman 2 days ago (Friday)

Padowan · 7th March 2005, 21:37

I saw on the list that someone proposed a oxygen fueled dust explosion as a possible cause of this - I've some knowledge of dust explosions from working around grain dust environments in the past, and I was thinking about whether Slime dust would potentially fuel a dust explosion?

AFAIUI the dust in a dust explosion has to be combustible in order for a cloud explosion to occur, grain dust contaions lots of starch which will burn based on the carbon content, but is Sofnolime combustible?

If it's not Slime dust implied, then what other dust possibilities would there be in a Rebreather - I can't see any? Some O2 lubes are chalk based I think, but I dont think that chalk dust would be combustible?

This is certainly a frightening incident, and until a root cause is identified, I'm gonna be treating HP O2 with the respect it deserves!

FathomsDown · 8th March 2005, 09:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan)

This is certainly a frightening incident, and until a root cause is identified, I'm gonna be treating HP O2 with the respect it deserves!

O2 is nasty stuff, something which was hammered in to my head many times when I was being taught to gas weld.

There are two main reasons that O2 fires start, adiabatic compression which is when high flowing O2 hits an obstruction causing it to heat up and ignite and infraction which is dust in the O2 flow hitting the sides of the lines and causing sparking. Both of these dangers are easily avoided by keeping your O2 kit extremely clean and sourcing high grade O2 from reliable suppliers.

Of course, commening on the nature of the incident without knowing exactly what went wrong is pretty pointless and unhelpful, but handling O2 with kid gloves is always a worthwhile idea. :)

KevDD · 14th October 2005, 13:23

I know this thread is long old but...

Would it be possible if the divers oxygen 1st stage blew an oring and the resulting oxygen flow heasted up and caught fire? It would explain why it didn't happen when the valve was turned on ...

i've had orings go after the valve is turned on for a minute or two (one time the blanking plug wasn't in tight enough and the oring just managed to burst out). If it happened with pure O2 i would imagine there would be a possibility of a fire.

5th March 2005, 18:22	#1 (permalink)
P6017 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 84	After reading a post on another site I'd be very careful about setting up 02 fill stations at or near the home. The story details an unexplained 02 fire, originating at the rebreather, that burnt the boat to the water line. Not something I'd want to see happen in the basement. Pete
(Offline)

6th March 2005, 11:59	#3 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,563	Thanks for the picture.... Is this where a fire spontaneously started just by turning the o2 on... Glad your ok!!! Were you stuck in the water long or could he get close enough in the pick you up - or was it swim like mad! On another note - is the Rebreather diver liable for the damage caused to the boat? Stuart __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of RBW is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
(Offline)

6th March 2005, 13:50	#4 (permalink)
imdown New Member Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Dolphin Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: INDY--USA Posts: 8	When and where did this happen?
(Offline)

6th March 2005, 15:32	#5 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,563	UAE I believe Phi (Decoweenie's) original post iss below... Quote: I am trying to learn from doing a clinical accidental analysis on something that happened recently, so please no flame war. If you don't have anything useful to say, please refrain. Could anyone give some possible reasons for a: - relatively brand new first stage on O2 tank - reg and tanks were O2-cleaned - reg had 3 dives recently without problem then on the 4th dive, this happened... - O2 tank is turned on - electronic is turned on - low-set-point is established and when the diver was picking the unit up to set on a higher surface on the boat to don, all of the sudden with no loud explosion, big yellow flames started continuously shooting out from the bottom of the unit like a big blow torch. I understand adiabatic compression could be the cause if something would have happened at the moment the tank valve was turned on, but not a few minutes later as if everything was fine. Even if the hose was ruptured, where was the source of the spark to feed the "fuel" ? Again, let's work with just the "raw data" given without having to ask for name of people/places/events. I am really trying to learn the possible causes to prevent it from happening again in the future. That's all! Thanks in advance for the help, -Phi I assume this was diving some where in the UAE... Stuart __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of RBW is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
(Offline)

6th March 2005, 17:16	#6 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,506	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Were you stuck in the water long or could he get close enough in the pick you up - or was it swim like mad! On another note - is the Rebreather diver liable for the damage caused to the boat? We were lucky that the wreck was only ~12km from shore so plenty of traffic. We were picked up within 10-15 mins with 3 boats came to the rescue. If it had been other sites that we go to (~50km off-shore) it would have been a long time before we get rescued. I don't know how the insurance company will handle about the boat since it was insured. As far as the personal dive equipment lost (~US$30,000 total), I don't think anything was insured. The person whose unit started the fire is a close friend, and he lost about 1/2 of the total lost by the group. I am not going to worry about my lost since it is much lighter when compared to his. At the end of the day, it is only dive equipment that we all could replace over time. If anyone had died, it would have been a great lost to a lot of people that could never be replaced. So be careful out there! Thus far, I can't see anything blantantly obvious how the fire got started -- especially the fire came ~3 mins after the tank was turned on -- which has always been my thinking that it would be almost instantenous. Learn something new...
(Offline)

6th March 2005, 17:16	#7 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,506	Quote: (Originally Posted by imdown) When and where did this happen? In the Gulf of Oman 2 days ago (Friday)
(Offline)

7th March 2005, 21:37	#8 (permalink)
Padowan RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Exeter, UK. Posts: 541	I saw on the list that someone proposed a oxygen fueled dust explosion as a possible cause of this - I've some knowledge of dust explosions from working around grain dust environments in the past, and I was thinking about whether Slime dust would potentially fuel a dust explosion? AFAIUI the dust in a dust explosion has to be combustible in order for a cloud explosion to occur, grain dust contaions lots of starch which will burn based on the carbon content, but is Sofnolime combustible? If it's not Slime dust implied, then what other dust possibilities would there be in a Rebreather - I can't see any? Some O2 lubes are chalk based I think, but I dont think that chalk dust would be combustible? This is certainly a frightening incident, and until a root cause is identified, I'm gonna be treating HP O2 with the respect it deserves!
(Offline)

8th March 2005, 09:55	#9 (permalink)
FathomsDown New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London Posts: 76	Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan) This is certainly a frightening incident, and until a root cause is identified, I'm gonna be treating HP O2 with the respect it deserves! O2 is nasty stuff, something which was hammered in to my head many times when I was being taught to gas weld. There are two main reasons that O2 fires start, adiabatic compression which is when high flowing O2 hits an obstruction causing it to heat up and ignite and infraction which is dust in the O2 flow hitting the sides of the lines and causing sparking. Both of these dangers are easily avoided by keeping your O2 kit extremely clean and sourcing high grade O2 from reliable suppliers. Of course, commening on the nature of the incident without knowing exactly what went wrong is pretty pointless and unhelpful, but handling O2 with kid gloves is always a worthwhile idea. :)
(Offline)

14th October 2005, 13:23	#10 (permalink)
KevDD RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 106	I know this thread is long old but... Would it be possible if the divers oxygen 1st stage blew an oring and the resulting oxygen flow heasted up and caught fire? It would explain why it didn't happen when the valve was turned on ... i've had orings go after the valve is turned on for a minute or two (one time the blanking plug wasn't in tight enough and the oring just managed to burst out). If it happened with pure O2 i would imagine there would be a possibility of a fire.
(Offline)

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