Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw

sven · 18th May 2007, 14:47

Some infro on a cock-up recently:

This is just a quick report on the effect of personal stupidity when trying to solve a rather simple problem at 110msw ...

Last weekend, the Sydney Project traveled to Bermagui (300km south of Sydney) in order to make another effort to positively identify a wreck we have found a year ago. We believe it is the SS Wear, but we have nothing to prove it.

The plan was to dive in 2 teams of 3, 25min bottom time, 3.5h runtime, with the teams carrying bailout, sufficient to get back to 40msw and stay there for 15min, in order to be able to wait for the surface crew to get 50% and 100% to us if we need it.

All went well - we (the 1st team) hit the sand (rather than the wreck) and were pondering what to do. There is just not enough time to run a reel and search for the wreck. As I had not seen anything like a wreck during the descent (30M+ viz) I signalled to the other 2 members of the team that I wanted to abort the dive in order to keep the deco at a minimum. So I ascended slowly to 110msw, while the other 2 still pondered their options. Suddenly, I had a sensor warning, followed shortly by a low battery warning on the master (Inspiration Classic). At that stage, I knew something was wrong, but I had no idea what (the warnings disappear from the screen very quickly!). Once I realised the problem, I attempted to rectify it. Unfortunately (in panic mode) I switched off the slave, which after a reboot told me to "reset other unit". When re-booting the master, I unfortunately selected YES to the Calibrate? question during the boot-up ... When I realised this, I switched the master off. After that I tried to bring up the old master for a few times, but it crapped out during the startup due to low battery. It took me approx 4 mins to bring up the ex-slave as a master. From there everything worked just fine.

Learnings:
1) Read the Inspo manual and memorize the error messages & what they mean
2) Read the messages on the screen prior to performing ANY action
3) 4min at 120msw without monitoring your pO2 drops it to just about 1.25 (from 1.3) - no need to panic!
4) the rig is VERY forgiving when it comes to operator stupidity :-)
5) the sand is the same in 3m and in 120m

Ahhh: Thye 2nd team hit the wreck ...

BTW: The batteries were new and I tested them after the dive (6.07 and 6.08V)

Corollary: Don't panic, but rather think about your options first ...

Anyway: I am in the process of replacing 2 cells and, of course, the batteries.

Don't try this at home!!!

AD_ward9 · 18th May 2007, 14:57

Like a Mr Bean sketch. You know, where he does something that you have done yourself, or can see yourself doing, and know just what the next step is.

You see "Calibrate now" and think no-one would be so dumb as to enable firmware to cal underwater. I too was dumb enough to say "Yes" to the Calibrate question, then immediately realised on hearing the injector what "Yes" meant. I am told it has been fixed in firmware for some years after the first idiot did this (me). I just switched the beast off and came back to the surface on bail out. Shows the software fix must be working, because you got your unit working again.

A very funny post. I can recommend the latest Mr Bean film: helps underline the point that we fools are not alone

Alex

NB: The only reason your PPO2 did not fall was because your depth hardly changed relative to the surface, and your breathing rate was slow. As you know, same number of O2 molecules at 110msw as at 3msw for any given PPO2, so with a loop volume of 12 litres with a PPO2 of 1.3, then your time from "Good grief" to "Good bye" is roughly 16 mins give or take 5, so long as depth is constant.

sven · 18th May 2007, 15:12

Alex,

Yes, very funny!
The post is just to show how stupid a diver (ME!) can be.
Sometimes, we are our biggest enemy. No kiddin'

Mikel-Deko · 18th May 2007, 15:52

JA, JA, JA

Very funny now but not underwater.

I was preparing a 110 msv dive, but if the sand it is the same in 3 msv...

Thanks for sharing and good way for learnig.

Best

Mikel

PD: next time good luck targeting the wrek

JS1scuba · 18th May 2007, 16:23

Might you consider putting a small slate on the back of each hand set with a short check list on it?

If this says THIS -- DO X kind of thing.

I'm not the brightest bulb on the string of lights but if it's complicated one might want to just make it simpler.

You guys got balls brassier than mine.

Glad it worked out.

JDS

Andy Del · 18th May 2007, 20:38

Yes well, those alarms are bloody distracting aren't they? Here we are all dressd up and no wreck to go to - peering into the gloom hoping there is a dark shape in the distance,

but all we get is this

beep beep beep

beep beep beep

sigh!

Despite the disappointment of a 120m sand dive, a few things struck me about the dive:

Firstly my KISS worked flawlessly, which was a great relief! To hear to O2 flow with the second cylinder valve opened was quite nice.
Things seem to take forever at this depth. I found the sand at 7 minutes, heard your alarms, stabilised my PO2, looked up at you, signalled a conversation about searching or not with Frits, looked at you again (looking fine in that blue drysuit you suave dude you ) saw we were at 10 minutes run time and conversed again about pulling the plug and going, and started the ascent!.
It was a lurvely 19C. mmm mmm mmm. Warm!

I also learned a few things...

Always have your contingency tables with the main table. I had stowed them in a pocket, and they were a bitch to get out, being rather large laminted tables, bungeed together.
Make sure your bottom timer is securely fastened, or it will fall off while pulling the said ****ing tables out of pocket.
Make sure Frits is below to catch all the gear you drop. Thanks mate!
Left-handed people should put arm slates on their right arm, the alternative makes for difficulty in writing.
Rig sling tanks so they lie further back and not under me like keels. It may look nice, but is a bit of a drag. Pun intended!
All the above are so simple you'd expect to have to resolved these as a matter of course while prepping or gearing up, but being out of one's comfort zone does all manner of screwy things to one's mind! (or lack thereof)

The learning curve keeps things hidden from view until you see them up close.

Sutty · 18th May 2007, 21:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy Del)

The learning curve keeps things hidden from view until you see them up close.

So true!

Andy Del · 19th May 2007, 02:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty)

So true!

I'll be using it at work from now on, on ALL the kids when they resist!

We've tried to tell 'em resistence is futile, but they just don't get it...

Mixaddict · 19th May 2007, 04:04

Sven,

Glad to hear things worked out OK! As you said, the Inspo is a pretty forgiving unit. I think this is especially true when the diver is able to keep his head and eventually work through the issues. I'm sure it got your attention at that depth! Sounds like you kept your head. Thanks for sharing the experience.

Regards,
Randy

divetheworld · 19th May 2007, 09:58

There are still failure modes that can sneak up on you. Good post to re-illiterate one of them.
I noticed that you turned off the slave first.
Those with Classics will know that if you turn off the Master first there is a double beep to alert the user of a Primary failure, the Slave then takes over as Master. If you turn off the slave, there is no such annunciation. Ergo, if your slave fails and you only check your master handset for PO2, then you will be unaware of a serious failure. If you have a secondary failure the whole system will be off with absolutely no alarm.
Better to monitor both, but if you must only monitor one handset, monitor the slave.

p.s. did you sack the skipper?

18th May 2007, 14:47	#1 (permalink)
sven Blogs Admin / Forum Mod Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 574	Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw Some infro on a cock-up recently: This is just a quick report on the effect of personal stupidity when trying to solve a rather simple problem at 110msw ... Last weekend, the Sydney Project traveled to Bermagui (300km south of Sydney) in order to make another effort to positively identify a wreck we have found a year ago. We believe it is the SS Wear, but we have nothing to prove it. The plan was to dive in 2 teams of 3, 25min bottom time, 3.5h runtime, with the teams carrying bailout, sufficient to get back to 40msw and stay there for 15min, in order to be able to wait for the surface crew to get 50% and 100% to us if we need it. All went well - we (the 1st team) hit the sand (rather than the wreck) and were pondering what to do. There is just not enough time to run a reel and search for the wreck. As I had not seen anything like a wreck during the descent (30M+ viz) I signalled to the other 2 members of the team that I wanted to abort the dive in order to keep the deco at a minimum. So I ascended slowly to 110msw, while the other 2 still pondered their options. Suddenly, I had a sensor warning, followed shortly by a low battery warning on the master (Inspiration Classic). At that stage, I knew something was wrong, but I had no idea what (the warnings disappear from the screen very quickly!). Once I realised the problem, I attempted to rectify it. Unfortunately (in panic mode) I switched off the slave, which after a reboot told me to "reset other unit". When re-booting the master, I unfortunately selected YES to the Calibrate? question during the boot-up ... When I realised this, I switched the master off. After that I tried to bring up the old master for a few times, but it crapped out during the startup due to low battery. It took me approx 4 mins to bring up the ex-slave as a master. From there everything worked just fine. Learnings: 1) Read the Inspo manual and memorize the error messages & what they mean 2) Read the messages on the screen prior to performing ANY action 3) 4min at 120msw without monitoring your pO2 drops it to just about 1.25 (from 1.3) - no need to panic! 4) the rig is VERY forgiving when it comes to operator stupidity :-) 5) the sand is the same in 3m and in 120m Ahhh: Thye 2nd team hit the wreck ... BTW: The batteries were new and I tested them after the dive (6.07 and 6.08V) Corollary: Don't panic, but rather think about your options first ... Anyway: I am in the process of replacing 2 cells and, of course, the batteries. Don't try this at home!!! __________________ Regards, Sven [SIZE=1]The Sydney Project website: [URL]http://www.sydneyproject.com[/URL] My Blog: [URL]http://sven.rebreatherworld.com[/URL] "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain[/SIZE]
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18th May 2007, 14:57	#2 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,853	Re: Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw Like a Mr Bean sketch. You know, where he does something that you have done yourself, or can see yourself doing, and know just what the next step is. You see "Calibrate now" and think no-one would be so dumb as to enable firmware to cal underwater. I too was dumb enough to say "Yes" to the Calibrate question, then immediately realised on hearing the injector what "Yes" meant. I am told it has been fixed in firmware for some years after the first idiot did this (me). I just switched the beast off and came back to the surface on bail out. Shows the software fix must be working, because you got your unit working again. A very funny post. I can recommend the latest Mr Bean film: helps underline the point that we fools are not alone Alex NB: The only reason your PPO2 did not fall was because your depth hardly changed relative to the surface, and your breathing rate was slow. As you know, same number of O2 molecules at 110msw as at 3msw for any given PPO2, so with a loop volume of 12 litres with a PPO2 of 1.3, then your time from "Good grief" to "Good bye" is roughly 16 mins give or take 5, so long as depth is constant. Last edited by AD_ward9 : 18th May 2007 at 17:11.
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18th May 2007, 15:12	#3 (permalink)
sven Blogs Admin / Forum Mod Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 574	Re: Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw Alex, Yes, very funny! The post is just to show how stupid a diver (ME!) can be. Sometimes, we are our biggest enemy. No kiddin' __________________ Regards, Sven [SIZE=1]The Sydney Project website: [URL]http://www.sydneyproject.com[/URL] My Blog: [URL]http://sven.rebreatherworld.com[/URL] "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain[/SIZE]
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18th May 2007, 15:52	#4 (permalink)
Mikel-Deko Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Basque Country -Sp- Posts: 448	Re: Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw JA, JA, JA Very funny now but not underwater. I was preparing a 110 msv dive, but if the sand it is the same in 3 msv... Thanks for sharing and good way for learnig. Best Mikel PD: next time good luck targeting the wrek __________________ Mikel-Deko Basque Country www.olatu.net "DIR is the nanny state for divers who cannot think on their own" Ron Micjan
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18th May 2007, 16:23	#5 (permalink)
JS1scuba RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ - USA Posts: 494	Re: Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw Might you consider putting a small slate on the back of each hand set with a short check list on it? If this says THIS -- DO X kind of thing. I'm not the brightest bulb on the string of lights but if it's complicated one might want to just make it simpler. You guys got balls brassier than mine. Glad it worked out. JDS
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18th May 2007, 20:38	#6 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 421	Re: Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw Yes well, those alarms are bloody distracting aren't they? Here we are all dressd up and no wreck to go to - peering into the gloom hoping there is a dark shape in the distance, but all we get is this beep beep beep beep beep beep sigh! Despite the disappointment of a 120m sand dive, a few things struck me about the dive: Firstly my KISS worked flawlessly, which was a great relief! To hear to O2 flow with the second cylinder valve opened was quite nice. Things seem to take forever at this depth. I found the sand at 7 minutes, heard your alarms, stabilised my PO2, looked up at you, signalled a conversation about searching or not with Frits, looked at you again (looking fine in that blue drysuit you suave dude you ) saw we were at 10 minutes run time and conversed again about pulling the plug and going, and started the ascent!. It was a lurvely 19C. mmm mmm mmm. Warm! I also learned a few things... Always have your contingency tables with the main table. I had stowed them in a pocket, and they were a bitch to get out, being rather large laminted tables, bungeed together. Make sure your bottom timer is securely fastened, or it will fall off while pulling the said ***ing tables out of pocket. Make sure Frits is below to catch all the gear you drop. Thanks mate! Left-handed people should put arm slates on their right arm, the alternative makes for difficulty in writing. Rig sling tanks so they lie further back and not under me like keels. It may look nice, but is a bit of a drag. Pun intended! All the above are so simple you'd expect to have to resolved these as a matter of course while prepping or gearing up*, but being out of one's comfort zone does all manner of screwy things to one's mind! (or lack thereof) The learning curve keeps things hidden from view until you see them up close. __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
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18th May 2007, 21:35	#7 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 798	Re: Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy Del) The learning curve keeps things hidden from view until you see them up close. So true! __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource.
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19th May 2007, 02:19	#8 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 421	Re: Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty) So true! I'll be using it at work from now on, on ALL the kids when they resist! We've tried to tell 'em resistence is futile, but they just don't get it... __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
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19th May 2007, 04:04	#9 (permalink)
Mixaddict Always Learning! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Draper, Utah USA Posts: 474	Re: Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw Sven, Glad to hear things worked out OK! As you said, the Inspo is a pretty forgiving unit. I think this is especially true when the diver is able to keep his head and eventually work through the issues. I'm sure it got your attention at that depth! Sounds like you kept your head. Thanks for sharing the experience. Regards, Randy __________________ Randy Thornton (MixAddict) Inspiration, Evolution,Hammerhead & Sentinel CCR Instructor
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19th May 2007, 09:58	#10 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,585	Re: Fiddling with your handsets at 110msw There are still failure modes that can sneak up on you. Good post to re-illiterate one of them. I noticed that you turned off the slave first. Those with Classics will know that if you turn off the Master first there is a double beep to alert the user of a Primary failure, the Slave then takes over as Master. If you turn off the slave, there is no such annunciation. Ergo, if your slave fails and you only check your master handset for PO2, then you will be unaware of a serious failure. If you have a secondary failure the whole system will be off with absolutely no alarm. Better to monitor both, but if you must only monitor one handset, monitor the slave. p.s. did you sack the skipper? __________________ Attitude and self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe
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