Australian Incident

tekdiver170 · 28th April 2007, 08:17

Robert glad to hear your hit was not more serious. I look forward to reading your report as I often have O2 tox problems when I "should" be in the clear and others are OK. After research, talking with DAN and other dive physiological experts they tell me that some people are just more susceptible to high levels of oxygen. Sucks.

I'm just lucky that my hits are usually at 1.6 for more than 10min. I have it narrowed down to when I can expect it, and do things to try to avoid it.

There is an article that DAN sent me explaining how the whole 1.4 PO2 level for your max limit with 1.6 PO2 for contingencies was set, it just seems that only a "small" percentage of divers experienced symptoms at these different levels. I have to go back and read the article again but something like 4% of testers had O2 tox symptoms at 1.6 and 2% had them at a 1.4, but they still had some get hit at a 1.3. Just goes to show there is no one safe limit for everyone.

rdmmdr · 7th May 2007, 01:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by andz)

This latest incident has enormous repercussions in SEQLD. The last major rebreather incident in SEQLD cost the LDS over $5000 to clear their name. How much will this latest incident cost them? Did the previous person contribute to the LDS lawyer fees? Will this latest person contribute?

Tech diving with a LDS in SEQLD is dead. No LDS will take the risk with rebreathers.

i don't know the incident that you are referring to but, Any time i have to pickup the phone to call my lawyer it is five grand. The owner of the unit has yet to post what happened, so at this time we do not know. the only way that you could go against the lds is if the o2 fill was not 100% o2. and it screwed up the cal off the unit. This incident resulted in a o2 convulsion, which tells me that the o2 level was right. It sounds like a unit or physiological failure.

lets us stop guessing until the report comes in.

rick

marekm · 7th May 2007, 01:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by andz)

No LDS will take the risk with rebreathers.

But will a LDS still take on divers using rich nitrox mixes, given they too can potentially cause o-tox hits in susceptible people?

-Marek

bendomatic · 7th May 2007, 02:00

the problem is andz, is that you just like being a shit-stirrer.

Bazza · 7th May 2007, 02:58

The problem is a very real concern for all of Oz, not just you guys in Qld.

Think about this, for an off the top of my head possibility. Workcover notes that the "Rebreather Supervisor" is not qualified on the unit that the accident occurred, ie not Meg trained.

Now it is not beyond the realms of those anal tossers to change the Qld std. to read "must be trained on the units they are supervising". Take it one step further NSW takes on board the change and other states also note the change, what's the bets that the Oz std. gets changed next.

We really do need to know what went on in this case so that as a industry we can try and stop such events reoccurring again and hopefully short circuit the workcover/lawyer/pay lots of dosh thing.

Trust me if I have to find $5k for a workcover related inquiry I will be upping the prices to recoup the loss. That means the end user pays bvecause either a diver stuffed up or its a manufactures fault.

I for one is waiting for Rob's report for just such reasons as mentioned above.

Sober thoughts eh!

regards Baz

bendomatic · 7th May 2007, 03:05

you guys are building up hysteria unnecessarily. workplace health and safety have 12 months to finalise any investigation they have. However, given their response this time (compared to last time) they aren't going to do anything. Baz as it is state enacted legislation you would be better off expending your energy lobbying your state MP to maintain the status quo in NSW.

***caveseeker7*** · 7th May 2007, 03:25

I posted this elsewhere in regards to this accident
and still believe it is correct. Let's hope the QL investigators
come to the same conclusion.

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

As far as repercussions for QL, the local gov't may be a pita,
but the accident was, from what little has been posted, handled
very well by QL-required personal both in and out of the water.
If anything they oughta be slapping shoulders and shaking hands
because of that.

Diving accidents will happen, I'm sure just about anyone got that.
How such an emergency is handled, from the buddy to the medical
personel, makes the difference. In that instance, as well as in the
recent WKPP accident, strict accident protocols were in place and
followed. Both divers walked away.
Well done, by both emergeny crews.

Bazza · 7th May 2007, 03:31

I hope you are correct in your assessment of Workcover's response, that will resolve the legal issues but, I for one would still like to know what happened, I wait Rob's report with great interest.

regards Baz

***caveseeker7*** · 7th May 2007, 03:32

So do I, I would like to dive there some day ...

bendomatic · 7th May 2007, 06:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by andz)

This latest incident has enormous repercussions in SEQLD. The last major rebreather incident in SEQLD cost the LDS over $5000 to clear their name. How much will this latest incident cost them? Did the previous person contribute to the LDS lawyer fees? Will this latest person contribute?

Tech diving with a LDS in SEQLD is dead. No LDS will take the risk with rebreathers.

You know what really gives me the shits about all of your post? It's that my legal representation for the incident you talk about cost me nothing! But the whole thing cost me my marriage, strained friendships, my health and my employability. You'd think i might be over it by now but you thinkj your smart making the comments you did, but they're just plain stupid! thanks for nothing.
rachel

28th April 2007, 08:17	#21 (permalink)
tekdiver170 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 87	Re: Australian Incident Robert glad to hear your hit was not more serious. I look forward to reading your report as I often have O2 tox problems when I "should" be in the clear and others are OK. After research, talking with DAN and other dive physiological experts they tell me that some people are just more susceptible to high levels of oxygen. Sucks. I'm just lucky that my hits are usually at 1.6 for more than 10min. I have it narrowed down to when I can expect it, and do things to try to avoid it. There is an article that DAN sent me explaining how the whole 1.4 PO2 level for your max limit with 1.6 PO2 for contingencies was set, it just seems that only a "small" percentage of divers experienced symptoms at these different levels. I have to go back and read the article again but something like 4% of testers had O2 tox symptoms at 1.6 and 2% had them at a 1.4, but they still had some get hit at a 1.3. Just goes to show there is no one safe limit for everyone.
(Offline)

7th May 2007, 01:38	#22 (permalink)
rdmmdr designer of death Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: kerman,california Posts: 372	Re: Australian Incident Quote: (Originally Posted by andz) This latest incident has enormous repercussions in SEQLD. The last major rebreather incident in SEQLD cost the LDS over $5000 to clear their name. How much will this latest incident cost them? Did the previous person contribute to the LDS lawyer fees? Will this latest person contribute? Tech diving with a LDS in SEQLD is dead. No LDS will take the risk with rebreathers. i don't know the incident that you are referring to but, Any time i have to pickup the phone to call my lawyer it is five grand. The owner of the unit has yet to post what happened, so at this time we do not know. the only way that you could go against the lds is if the o2 fill was not 100% o2. and it screwed up the cal off the unit. This incident resulted in a o2 convulsion, which tells me that the o2 level was right. It sounds like a unit or physiological failure. lets us stop guessing until the report comes in. rick
(Offline)

7th May 2007, 01:40	#23 (permalink)
marekm Banned Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 196	Re: Australian Incident Quote: (Originally Posted by andz) No LDS will take the risk with rebreathers. But will a LDS still take on divers using rich nitrox mixes, given they too can potentially cause o-tox hits in susceptible people? -Marek
(Offline)

7th May 2007, 02:00	#24 (permalink)
bendomatic Morgan's Mum Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 201	Re: Australian Incident the problem is andz, is that you just like being a shit-stirrer. __________________ why deal with idiots on the net when you have to spend all day dealing with them at work. Last edited by bendomatic : 7th May 2007 at 02:09.
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7th May 2007, 02:58	#25 (permalink)
Bazza New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 161	Re: Australian Incident The problem is a very real concern for all of Oz, not just you guys in Qld. Think about this, for an off the top of my head possibility. Workcover notes that the "Rebreather Supervisor" is not qualified on the unit that the accident occurred, ie not Meg trained. Now it is not beyond the realms of those anal tossers to change the Qld std. to read "must be trained on the units they are supervising". Take it one step further NSW takes on board the change and other states also note the change, what's the bets that the Oz std. gets changed next. We really do need to know what went on in this case so that as a industry we can try and stop such events reoccurring again and hopefully short circuit the workcover/lawyer/pay lots of dosh thing. Trust me if I have to find $5k for a workcover related inquiry I will be upping the prices to recoup the loss. That means the end user pays bvecause either a diver stuffed up or its a manufactures fault. I for one is waiting for Rob's report for just such reasons as mentioned above. Sober thoughts eh! regards Baz Last edited by Bazza : 7th May 2007 at 03:02.
(Offline)

7th May 2007, 03:05	#26 (permalink)
bendomatic Morgan's Mum Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 201	Re: Australian Incident you guys are building up hysteria unnecessarily. workplace health and safety have 12 months to finalise any investigation they have. However, given their response this time (compared to last time) they aren't going to do anything. Baz as it is state enacted legislation you would be better off expending your energy lobbying your state MP to maintain the status quo in NSW. __________________ why deal with idiots on the net when you have to spend all day dealing with them at work. Last edited by bendomatic : 7th May 2007 at 03:26.
(Offline)

7th May 2007, 03:25	#27 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,435	Re: Australian Incident I posted this elsewhere in regards to this accident and still believe it is correct. Let's hope the QL investigators come to the same conclusion. Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) As far as repercussions for QL, the local gov't may be a pita, but the accident was, from what little has been posted, handled very well by QL-required personal both in and out of the water. If anything they oughta be slapping shoulders and shaking hands because of that. Diving accidents will happen, I'm sure just about anyone got that. How such an emergency is handled, from the buddy to the medical personel, makes the difference. In that instance, as well as in the recent WKPP accident, strict accident protocols were in place and followed. Both divers walked away. Well done, by both emergeny crews. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"
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7th May 2007, 03:31	#28 (permalink)
Bazza New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 161	Re: Australian Incident I hope you are correct in your assessment of Workcover's response, that will resolve the legal issues but, I for one would still like to know what happened, I wait Rob's report with great interest. regards Baz
(Offline)

7th May 2007, 03:32	#29 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,435	Re: Australian Incident So do I, I would like to dive there some day ... __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"
(Offline)

7th May 2007, 06:44	#30 (permalink)
bendomatic Morgan's Mum Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 201	Re: Australian Incident Quote: (Originally Posted by andz) This latest incident has enormous repercussions in SEQLD. The last major rebreather incident in SEQLD cost the LDS over $5000 to clear their name. How much will this latest incident cost them? Did the previous person contribute to the LDS lawyer fees? Will this latest person contribute? Tech diving with a LDS in SEQLD is dead. No LDS will take the risk with rebreathers. You know what really gives me the shits about all of your post? It's that my legal representation for the incident you talk about cost me nothing! But the whole thing cost me my marriage, strained friendships, my health and my employability. You'd think i might be over it by now but you thinkj your smart making the comments you did, but they're just plain stupid! thanks for nothing. rachel __________________ why deal with idiots on the net when you have to spend all day dealing with them at work.
(Offline)

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