we need your help for the perfect light

mbsub · 29th March 2008, 21:09

Hello,
at first sorry for my bad English. I hope you can follow my idea.
We are well known by our "normal" diving lamps. With special light for tech-diving we start in the moment.
The first success was our LED-CAVE and the PHOTON, both with the 1000 lumen LED "Ostar".
Now we think about the perfect light for tech-diving, but we need your help.
Please write in your answers all what you want for this light.
For example: which kind of battaries, which kind of light source (halogen, HID, LED), lamp electronic, focusing,
holder for the battery cannister, material for canister ..........
I have already a special idea for this light, but nobody is perfect

Maybe we can construct with your help the perfect light.

Thank you for your help

Michael

mb-sub.com: Home

Sutty · 29th March 2008, 21:45

As I'm still looking for a new light I'll put my wish list forward:

Umbilical, or preferably a modular system with interchangeable hand-held and tank-mounted battery cannisters to make umbilical or hand-held.

Long Burn time
As small a battery cannister as possible
No memory effect
- Probably lithium-ion then!

Good lumen output
Very robust
Ok for signalling
Lights up enough area
- So variable beam angle ideally

Switch on the handset rather than the battery cannister,

Copes OK with switching on and off frequently (unlike HID).

Good depth capability (200m). (not that I'm at that depth)

Remaining charge indicator on the handset

Able to use out of the water.

For me the Solus lights look like they come closest at the moment - make me something better! eg if tighter beam angle LEDs become available or combine them with the wider angle ones and be able to have wide/narrow/both as a switcheable option. Have interchangeable light heads and battery cannisters, etc. . .

Having said that your LED-Cave light looks interesting - can you give more details...

How many LEDs are in the head? is it just one?!

What is the beam angle?

What is the charging time?

What sort of connectors are used between cannister and light head?

Thanks
Neil

Meng_Tze · 29th March 2008, 22:49

Ideal light:
5+ hrs burntime
Can be ignited above water
6degrees, or variable focus throw
no-memory battery technology
compact size on goodman type handle (good example is DR 10W light)
more than 1500 lumen
Temperature around 6000K
mechanically strong (both housing and light emitter)
Depth rated to about 200m

Can be can/umbelical; but if stand alone, form factor should not be greater than a backup light.

Make light like that and you will sell many

mik · 30th March 2008, 02:23

We have done this before here

**Gill Envy** · 30th March 2008, 04:57

1. long burn time
2. high intensity, next generation LED's. (durable, energy efficient, long lasting buld, bright, cool burning for use above water too)
3. I don't care so much but it seems that many folks really, really want to be able to focus the beam so that it's ideal for signalling a buddy from a long distance, while also having the ability for a nice even, wide beam for close up viewing.
4.reasonable cost, $600ish USD

5.NMH or better in terms of battery capacity and decay characteristics and no memory.
6.able to take standard alkaline batteries, standard rechargable batteries or rechargable battery pack.
7. compact... I'd love the option to interchange between imbillical and one piece/hand held.

currently I use a dinky hand held LED light as I wait and pray for the "perfect" light...

AD_ward9 · 30th March 2008, 06:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty)

For me the Solus lights look like they come closest at the moment - make me something better! eg if tighter beam angle LEDs become available or combine them with the wider angle ones and be able to have wide/narrow/both as a switcheable option. Have interchangeable light heads and battery cannisters, etc. . .

Solus supply the lights we incorporated into the O.R. commercial diving rebreather. They worked perfectly, despite our deliberately scoring them then dunking them in salt water for months at a time, helium compression tests, dropping them, twisting the cable etc.

Only complaint we got was they were too bright on full power (they have 4 brightness settings on the rebreather).

Solus are a very good company to work with also.

Not often you find me saying a piece of kit works perfectly, but credit where credit is due. All you need is a power pack to go with them: the ones we tested are powered by the rebreather.

If anyone comes up with anything better than "perfect", send us one and we will let you know how perfect it is.

Sutty's suggestion on the LEDs though was very perceptive: as one does not need all the brightness available from the best LEDs, put half the LEDs in as narrow beam and half as wide beam, then on narrow beam switch the wide beam off.

Incidentally, if you need a nice colour OLED pcb to charge and monitor the batteries, give me a call: we have one we developed for another application, that would work nicely for dive lights. We also have a great deal of verified data on battery charge and discharge chacteristics: watch them in cold water - they only last half as long. Given the grief in taking big lithium batteries on planes now, I would take 50% more space for the batteries and go for Lithium Phosphate technology, such as from Valence: at least you can take them in your baggage. This offer applies to any other light mnfrs out there: if you want a sexy and cheap battery charger board with OLED and accurate battery life indicator, PM me.

Alex

**Fun Under Pressure** · 30th March 2008, 09:47

Having said that your LED-Cave light looks interesting - can you give more details...

How many LEDs are in the head? is it just one?!

What is the beam angle?

What is the charging time?

What sort of connectors are used between cannister and light head?

Thanks
Neil[/quote]

One LED ; 6 hours burn time(100%) 9 hours burn time(75%)
Charging approx. 4 hours, no memory effect
permanent connectors, you change the akku over the light head

My next toy

Cheers Markku

__________________________________________________ ______________

"DIR is the nanny state for divers who cannot think on their own" Ron Micjan

mbsub · 30th March 2008, 10:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by mik)

We have done this before here

Sorry, but we look for new and better solutions. I think, existing solutions are not state of the art, but maybe good enough for someone.

Michael

mb-sub.com: Home

Mdemon · 30th March 2008, 14:38

What do you think of the 20w and 50w single package LEDs? I've been playing with a 20w one here and it's certainly brighter than a 50w halogen. However, heat is a real issue - it was melting sellotape and that was with a 12v fan and heatsink running!!!!

I was thinking this might make the lighthead a dual purpose light source + hand warmer!

These LEDs are very cheap, as are the regulator boards (mine will happily run 2 x 20w LED). If you can create battery cannisters and light heads very cheaply then you could market them very cheaply and get market share that way.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mbsub)

Sorry, but we look for new and better solutions. I think, existing solutions are not state of the art, but maybe good enough for someone.

Michael

mb-sub.com: Home

mbsub · 30th March 2008, 15:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

What do you think of the 20w and 50w single package LEDs?

sorry, but which LED you have seen with 50W?
The 22W LED (Ostar by Osram) we use since last year in our LED-CAVE and PHOTON. A 50W LED is unkown.

Michael

mb-sub.com: Home

29th March 2008, 21:09	#1 (permalink)
mbsub New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cologne Posts: 25	we need your help for the perfect light Hello, at first sorry for my bad English. I hope you can follow my idea. We are well known by our "normal" diving lamps. With special light for tech-diving we start in the moment. The first success was our LED-CAVE and the PHOTON, both with the 1000 lumen LED "Ostar". Now we think about the perfect light for tech-diving, but we need your help. Please write in your answers all what you want for this light. For example: which kind of battaries, which kind of light source (halogen, HID, LED), lamp electronic, focusing, holder for the battery cannister, material for canister .......... I have already a special idea for this light, but nobody is perfect Maybe we can construct with your help the perfect light. Thank you for your help Michael mb-sub.com: Home
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29th March 2008, 21:45	#2 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 789	Re: we need your help for the perfect light As I'm still looking for a new light I'll put my wish list forward: Umbilical, or preferably a modular system with interchangeable hand-held and tank-mounted battery cannisters to make umbilical or hand-held. Long Burn time As small a battery cannister as possible No memory effect - Probably lithium-ion then! Good lumen output Very robust Ok for signalling Lights up enough area - So variable beam angle ideally Switch on the handset rather than the battery cannister, Copes OK with switching on and off frequently (unlike HID). Good depth capability (200m). (not that I'm at that depth) Remaining charge indicator on the handset Able to use out of the water. For me the Solus lights look like they come closest at the moment - make me something better! eg if tighter beam angle LEDs become available or combine them with the wider angle ones and be able to have wide/narrow/both as a switcheable option. Have interchangeable light heads and battery cannisters, etc. . . Having said that your LED-Cave light looks interesting - can you give more details... How many LEDs are in the head? is it just one?! What is the beam angle? What is the charging time? What sort of connectors are used between cannister and light head? Thanks Neil __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource. Last edited by Sutty : 29th March 2008 at 21:53.
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29th March 2008, 22:49	#3 (permalink)
Meng_Tze 246 Bubbleless Cove Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: FL, USA Posts: 106	Re: we need your help for the perfect light Ideal light: 5+ hrs burntime Can be ignited above water 6degrees, or variable focus throw no-memory battery technology compact size on goodman type handle (good example is DR 10W light) more than 1500 lumen Temperature around 6000K mechanically strong (both housing and light emitter) Depth rated to about 200m Can be can/umbelical; but if stand alone, form factor should not be greater than a backup light. Make light like that and you will sell many __________________ Homo Bonae Voluntatis Last edited by Meng_Tze : 30th March 2008 at 03:46. Reason: i meant 6000K not 600k
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30th March 2008, 02:23	#4 (permalink)
mik New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney North Posts: 63	Re: we need your help for the perfect light We have done this before here __________________ It just fell apart in my hands, Chief!
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30th March 2008, 04:57	#5 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Diver Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,302	Re: we need your help for the perfect light 1. long burn time 2. high intensity, next generation LED's. (durable, energy efficient, long lasting buld, bright, cool burning for use above water too) 3. I don't care so much but it seems that many folks really, really want to be able to focus the beam so that it's ideal for signalling a buddy from a long distance, while also having the ability for a nice even, wide beam for close up viewing. 4.reasonable cost, $600ish USD 5.NMH or better in terms of battery capacity and decay characteristics and no memory. 6.able to take standard alkaline batteries, standard rechargable batteries or rechargable battery pack. 7. compact... I'd love the option to interchange between imbillical and one piece/hand held. currently I use a dinky hand held LED light as I wait and pray for the "perfect" light... __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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30th March 2008, 06:20	#6 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: we need your help for the perfect light Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty) For me the Solus lights look like they come closest at the moment - make me something better! eg if tighter beam angle LEDs become available or combine them with the wider angle ones and be able to have wide/narrow/both as a switcheable option. Have interchangeable light heads and battery cannisters, etc. . . Solus supply the lights we incorporated into the O.R. commercial diving rebreather. They worked perfectly, despite our deliberately scoring them then dunking them in salt water for months at a time, helium compression tests, dropping them, twisting the cable etc. Only complaint we got was they were too bright on full power (they have 4 brightness settings on the rebreather). Solus are a very good company to work with also. Not often you find me saying a piece of kit works perfectly, but credit where credit is due. All you need is a power pack to go with them: the ones we tested are powered by the rebreather. If anyone comes up with anything better than "perfect", send us one and we will let you know how perfect it is. Sutty's suggestion on the LEDs though was very perceptive: as one does not need all the brightness available from the best LEDs, put half the LEDs in as narrow beam and half as wide beam, then on narrow beam switch the wide beam off. Incidentally, if you need a nice colour OLED pcb to charge and monitor the batteries, give me a call: we have one we developed for another application, that would work nicely for dive lights. We also have a great deal of verified data on battery charge and discharge chacteristics: watch them in cold water - they only last half as long. Given the grief in taking big lithium batteries on planes now, I would take 50% more space for the batteries and go for Lithium Phosphate technology, such as from Valence: at least you can take them in your baggage. This offer applies to any other light mnfrs out there: if you want a sexy and cheap battery charger board with OLED and accurate battery life indicator, PM me. Alex Last edited by AD_ward9 : 30th March 2008 at 06:30.
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30th March 2008, 09:47	#7 (permalink)
Fun Under Pressure Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 651	Re: we need your help for the perfect light Having said that your LED-Cave light looks interesting - can you give more details... How many LEDs are in the head? is it just one?! What is the beam angle? What is the charging time? What sort of connectors are used between cannister and light head? Thanks Neil[/quote] One LED ; 6 hours burn time(100%) 9 hours burn time(75%) Charging approx. 4 hours, no memory effect permanent connectors, you change the akku over the light head My next toy Cheers Markku __________________________________________________ ______________ "DIR is the nanny state for divers who cannot think on their own" Ron Micjan
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30th March 2008, 10:53	#8 (permalink)
mbsub New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cologne Posts: 25	Re: we need your help for the perfect light Quote: (Originally Posted by mik) We have done this before here Sorry, but we look for new and better solutions. I think, existing solutions are not state of the art, but maybe good enough for someone. Michael mb-sub.com: Home
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30th March 2008, 14:38	#9 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,906	Re: we need your help for the perfect light What do you think of the 20w and 50w single package LEDs? I've been playing with a 20w one here and it's certainly brighter than a 50w halogen. However, heat is a real issue - it was melting sellotape and that was with a 12v fan and heatsink running!!!! I was thinking this might make the lighthead a dual purpose light source + hand warmer! These LEDs are very cheap, as are the regulator boards (mine will happily run 2 x 20w LED). If you can create battery cannisters and light heads very cheaply then you could market them very cheaply and get market share that way. Quote: (Originally Posted by mbsub) Sorry, but we look for new and better solutions. I think, existing solutions are not state of the art, but maybe good enough for someone. Michael mb-sub.com: Home __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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30th March 2008, 15:14	#10 (permalink)
mbsub New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cologne Posts: 25	Re: we need your help for the perfect light Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) What do you think of the 20w and 50w single package LEDs? sorry, but which LED you have seen with 50W? The 22W LED (Ostar by Osram) we use since last year in our LED-CAVE and PHOTON. A 50W LED is unkown. Michael mb-sub.com: Home
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