CE stamping Carbon Fiber Tanks in Europe

AD_ward9 · 17th March 2008, 20:50

Tino,

As I explained, my references and search was for light rebreather sized cylinders of 2 and 3 litres.

Cylinders above 5 litres are available for SCUBA use in carbon wrapped steel. When I checked last, they could not supply these in 2 and 3 litre sizes.

Alex

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

I checked with my mate who has them already (mine are on order).
These are Worthington 6.8 liter carbon whoop wrapped STEEL (CrMo) cylinders.
They are rated for scuba. They carry a CE rating.
You can find all details here: CARBONDIVE, including the CE certificate and product(ion) details.
They were delivered to us, by Hytech (Hytech - Hyperbaric Technology), one of Europe's bigger supplier to the offshore and diving industry, and one of the few manufacturers of hyperbaric tanks. They don't mess around with non-CE cylinders and/or non-scuba cylinders.

So Worthington DOES deliver composite cylinders fit for diving. Not alu, but CrMo steel - quite corrosion resistant (like normal steel scuba cylinders).
I have photos to back it all up, especially of the (CE) markings.
I don't know if they do 2 or 3 cylinders, I doubt it; I DO know they make bigger ones (10 and 12 liter), as another mate of me uses those for a while now.

So I guess you missed that one, and may want to retract your "Worthingtons are unfit for diving" remark.

Ciao,

Tino.

AD_ward9 · 17th March 2008, 20:56

Tino,

As I explained, my references and search was for light rebreather sized cylinders of 2 and 3 litres.

Cylinders above 5 litres are available for SCUBA use in carbon wrapped steel. When I checked last, they could not supply these in 2 and 3 litre sizes.

I can't find the remark you assert I made below: I did a word search on this thread. Just to be clear, I have not found so far any carbon wrapped cylinder of 3.3 litres or less that is suitable as it is for SCUBA diving. I am following up on the Faber lead and will post here if I find anything. I am not referring to any tank of more than 3.3 litres in my comment.

Reading the tone of your reply, it has clearly been a hard day. Don't worry. Someone out there loves you. Relax. Diving is meant to be fun.

Alex

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

I checked with my mate who has them already (mine are on order).
These are Worthington 6.8 liter carbon whoop wrapped STEEL (CrMo) cylinders.
They are rated for scuba. They carry a CE rating.
You can find all details here: CARBONDIVE, including the CE certificate and product(ion) details.
They were delivered to us, by Hytech (Hytech - Hyperbaric Technology), one of Europe's bigger supplier to the offshore and diving industry, and one of the few manufacturers of hyperbaric tanks. They don't mess around with non-CE cylinders and/or non-scuba cylinders.

So Worthington DOES deliver composite cylinders fit for diving. Not alu, but CrMo steel - quite corrosion resistant (like normal steel scuba cylinders).
I have photos to back it all up, especially of the (CE) markings.
I don't know if they do 2 or 3 cylinders, I doubt it; I DO know they make bigger ones (10 and 12 liter), as another mate of me uses those for a while now.

So I guess you missed that one, and may want to retract your "Worthingtons are unfit for diving" remark.

Ciao,

Tino.

Tino de Rijk · 18th March 2008, 06:37

Neither you nor Brainx specified in the first part of this thread you were looking for small cylinders. It only mentions "carbon fibre". See your own post below, and Brainx'. The reply you gave could easily be interpreted as Worthington's being unsuitable for diving in general, based on wrong info (alu versus steel, CE branding).
With your expert role here on Rebreather World you need to be cautious and precise in your statement, as they do affect the business of mnf's, especially as you rule them out.

Ciao,

Tino.

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

We have been trying to get CE carbon SCUBA tanks for quite a while. There a few things to look out for:

1. The tanks with a plastic liner are not O2 compatible, at all.
2. The tanks with an aluminium liner corrode severely in sea water, very fast: the aluminium is not protected.
3. They normally have 18mm tank threads.

Very few companies make pillar valves to fit 18mm that are any good for SCUBA applications, and those that do make poor quality valves (we tried 3 manufacturers' valves, all leaked within a week, and two were obviously not O2 compatible). Just now we are doing an NRE contract with Poseidon: they make very good quality valves, the NRE bit is to get them with an 18mm thread - you would be astonished at how expensive such a simple change is, on what is already an expensive valve. One has to do it twice because the new G5/8 and 26mm Nitrox regulations in Europe.

Alex

Brainx3 · 18th March 2008, 07:19

Hi,

Thanks again for the feedback guys. Tino, I wasn't referring to any specific size although I found sizes between 1.4 liters up to 9 liters which are in production. I had no information about what European manufacturers were producing beside what you mentioned previously and I really thank you for that. I'm currently negotiating a couple of asian manufacturers to produce specific samples for diving purposes, and just inform you about the updates, I found the following:

- O2 compatible plastic liner carbon fiber cylinders were produced by 1 big manufacturer in China but due to the lack of demands on such type they have cut the product line, and unless it's a big quantity (1000 pieces at least) then they won't be producing them anytime soon.

- Al-Alloy liner carbon fiber cylinders are available and they are ANODIZED in order to prevent corrossion and they are 100% oxygen compatible.

- All cylinders can be made with different thread sizes (18mm or 25mm) upon request.

- Currently, there's a possibility to get the cylinders CE apporved before they get exported to Europes and that's the current discussion I'm having with the manufacturers.

Alex, if you are interested in these cylinders then please send me PM to tell me the quantity and the sizes you want because the more we purchase the better discount we get. I will be asking for a few samples from the manufacturer so we can put it to test and I can send you a sample so you can test it to see the quality and give me some feedbacks.

Best Regards. Wael

Brad_Horn · 18th March 2008, 07:47

While I am sure that the single cylinder price is eye-watering, bulk may not be for a custom 2-3L sized run. Have you looked at linerless composite cylinders?

CTD: Elastic Memory Composite (EMC) Material

Alex,

Is this where you sourced the unusable batch of cylinders from Carleton Technologies - Pressure Technology Division designs, manufactures composite vessels, structures or was that from elsewhere?

As you seem to be after a pallet load, which is quite a few I would guess for a 2L sized cylinder you ought to have a little leverage...

If you have some made, feel free to have them meet the Australian spec for cylinders as well.

regards
Brad

Brainx3 · 18th March 2008, 08:02

Hi,

Thanks Brad for the link. The technology looks promising but no specifications were mentioned on the company's website. I will try to contact them and see what can be available for diving purposes.

Best Regards. Wael

Tino de Rijk · 18th March 2008, 12:25

So, for the 6.8 and 10 liters you don't have to look any further than Austria. no specials, off the shelf. And the price is really quite acceptable as well: 6.8 liter will set you back around 250-300 euro, including M25x2 valve.

ciao,

Tino.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brainx3)

Hi,

Thanks again for the feedback guys. Tino, I wasn't referring to any specific size although I found sizes between 1.4 liters up to 9 liters which are in production. I had no information about what European manufacturers were producing beside what you mentioned previously and I really thank you for that. I'm currently negotiating a couple of asian manufacturers to produce specific samples for diving purposes, and just inform you about the updates, I found the following:

- O2 compatible plastic liner carbon fiber cylinders were produced by 1 big manufacturer in China but due to the lack of demands on such type they have cut the product line, and unless it's a big quantity (1000 pieces at least) then they won't be producing them anytime soon.

- Al-Alloy liner carbon fiber cylinders are available and they are ANODIZED in order to prevent corrossion and they are 100% oxygen compatible.

- All cylinders can be made with different thread sizes (18mm or 25mm) upon request.

- Currently, there's a possibility to get the cylinders CE apporved before they get exported to Europes and that's the current discussion I'm having with the manufacturers.

Alex, if you are interested in these cylinders then please send me PM to tell me the quantity and the sizes you want because the more we purchase the better discount we get. I will be asking for a few samples from the manufacturer so we can put it to test and I can send you a sample so you can test it to see the quality and give me some feedbacks.

Best Regards. Wael

AD_ward9 · 20th March 2008, 13:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brad_Horn)

Alex,

Is this where you sourced the unusable batch of cylinders from Carleton Technologies - Pressure Technology Division designs, manufactures composite vessels, structures or was that from elsewhere?

As you seem to be after a pallet load, which is quite a few I would guess for a 2L sized cylinder you ought to have a little leverage...

If you have some made, feel free to have them meet the Australian spec for cylinders as well.

regards
Brad

Hi Brad,

The unusable batch were not Carleton cylinders.

You guessed right with the size: it is 2litre that we use. We sample by buying 12, then if they pass would need 100 immediately, with larger batches following that.

BrainX3 and I have spoken, and we look forward to following up his Chinese source. If they become available, then of course, anyone can buy now.

Cheers,

Alex

17th March 2008, 20:50	#21 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: CE stamping Carbon Fiber Tanks in Europs Tino, As I explained, my references and search was for light rebreather sized cylinders of 2 and 3 litres. Cylinders above 5 litres are available for SCUBA use in carbon wrapped steel. When I checked last, they could not supply these in 2 and 3 litre sizes. Alex Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) I checked with my mate who has them already (mine are on order). These are Worthington 6.8 liter carbon whoop wrapped STEEL (CrMo) cylinders. They are rated for scuba. They carry a CE rating. You can find all details here: CARBONDIVE, including the CE certificate and product(ion) details. They were delivered to us, by Hytech (Hytech - Hyperbaric Technology), one of Europe's bigger supplier to the offshore and diving industry, and one of the few manufacturers of hyperbaric tanks. They don't mess around with non-CE cylinders and/or non-scuba cylinders. So Worthington DOES deliver composite cylinders fit for diving. Not alu, but CrMo steel - quite corrosion resistant (like normal steel scuba cylinders). I have photos to back it all up, especially of the (CE) markings. I don't know if they do 2 or 3 cylinders, I doubt it; I DO know they make bigger ones (10 and 12 liter), as another mate of me uses those for a while now. So I guess you missed that one, and may want to retract your "Worthingtons are unfit for diving" remark. Ciao, Tino.
(Offline)

17th March 2008, 20:56	#22 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: CE stamping Carbon Fiber Tanks in Europs Tino, As I explained, my references and search was for light rebreather sized cylinders of 2 and 3 litres. Cylinders above 5 litres are available for SCUBA use in carbon wrapped steel. When I checked last, they could not supply these in 2 and 3 litre sizes. I can't find the remark you assert I made below: I did a word search on this thread. Just to be clear, I have not found so far any carbon wrapped cylinder of 3.3 litres or less that is suitable as it is for SCUBA diving. I am following up on the Faber lead and will post here if I find anything. I am not referring to any tank of more than 3.3 litres in my comment. Reading the tone of your reply, it has clearly been a hard day. Don't worry. Someone out there loves you. Relax. Diving is meant to be fun. Alex Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) I checked with my mate who has them already (mine are on order). These are Worthington 6.8 liter carbon whoop wrapped STEEL (CrMo) cylinders. They are rated for scuba. They carry a CE rating. You can find all details here: CARBONDIVE, including the CE certificate and product(ion) details. They were delivered to us, by Hytech (Hytech - Hyperbaric Technology), one of Europe's bigger supplier to the offshore and diving industry, and one of the few manufacturers of hyperbaric tanks. They don't mess around with non-CE cylinders and/or non-scuba cylinders. So Worthington DOES deliver composite cylinders fit for diving. Not alu, but CrMo steel - quite corrosion resistant (like normal steel scuba cylinders). I have photos to back it all up, especially of the (CE) markings. I don't know if they do 2 or 3 cylinders, I doubt it; I DO know they make bigger ones (10 and 12 liter), as another mate of me uses those for a while now. So I guess you missed that one, and may want to retract your "Worthingtons are unfit for diving" remark. Ciao, Tino.
(Offline)

18th March 2008, 06:37	#23 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 325	Re: CE stamping Carbon Fiber Tanks in Europs Neither you nor Brainx specified in the first part of this thread you were looking for small cylinders. It only mentions "carbon fibre". See your own post below, and Brainx'. The reply you gave could easily be interpreted as Worthington's being unsuitable for diving in general, based on wrong info (alu versus steel, CE branding). With your expert role here on Rebreather World you need to be cautious and precise in your statement, as they do affect the business of mnf's, especially as you rule them out. Ciao, Tino. Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) We have been trying to get CE carbon SCUBA tanks for quite a while. There a few things to look out for: 1. The tanks with a plastic liner are not O2 compatible, at all. 2. The tanks with an aluminium liner corrode severely in sea water, very fast: the aluminium is not protected. 3. They normally have 18mm tank threads. Very few companies make pillar valves to fit 18mm that are any good for SCUBA applications, and those that do make poor quality valves (we tried 3 manufacturers' valves, all leaked within a week, and two were obviously not O2 compatible). Just now we are doing an NRE contract with Poseidon: they make very good quality valves, the NRE bit is to get them with an 18mm thread - you would be astonished at how expensive such a simple change is, on what is already an expensive valve. One has to do it twice because the new G5/8 and 26mm Nitrox regulations in Europe. Alex
(Online)

18th March 2008, 07:19	#24 (permalink)
Brainx3 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 274	Re: CE stamping Carbon Fiber Tanks in Europe Hi, Thanks again for the feedback guys. Tino, I wasn't referring to any specific size although I found sizes between 1.4 liters up to 9 liters which are in production. I had no information about what European manufacturers were producing beside what you mentioned previously and I really thank you for that. I'm currently negotiating a couple of asian manufacturers to produce specific samples for diving purposes, and just inform you about the updates, I found the following: - O2 compatible plastic liner carbon fiber cylinders were produced by 1 big manufacturer in China but due to the lack of demands on such type they have cut the product line, and unless it's a big quantity (1000 pieces at least) then they won't be producing them anytime soon. - Al-Alloy liner carbon fiber cylinders are available and they are ANODIZED in order to prevent corrossion and they are 100% oxygen compatible. - All cylinders can be made with different thread sizes (18mm or 25mm) upon request. - Currently, there's a possibility to get the cylinders CE apporved before they get exported to Europes and that's the current discussion I'm having with the manufacturers. Alex, if you are interested in these cylinders then please send me PM to tell me the quantity and the sizes you want because the more we purchase the better discount we get. I will be asking for a few samples from the manufacturer so we can put it to test and I can send you a sample so you can test it to see the quality and give me some feedbacks. Best Regards. Wael __________________ The depth of life cannot be measured in Bars, nor can the sea of lies, that lies within. *I don't take crap for an answer...*
(Offline)

18th March 2008, 07:47	#25 (permalink)
Brad_Horn Checklist, tick! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 86	Re: CE stamping Carbon Fiber Tanks in Europe While I am sure that the single cylinder price is eye-watering, bulk may not be for a custom 2-3L sized run. Have you looked at linerless composite cylinders? CTD: Elastic Memory Composite (EMC) Material Alex, Is this where you sourced the unusable batch of cylinders from Carleton Technologies - Pressure Technology Division designs, manufactures composite vessels, structures or was that from elsewhere? As you seem to be after a pallet load, which is quite a few I would guess for a 2L sized cylinder you ought to have a little leverage... If you have some made, feel free to have them meet the Australian spec for cylinders as well. regards Brad Last edited by Brad_Horn : 18th March 2008 at 08:01. Reason: Added additional link to Carleton
(Online)

18th March 2008, 08:02	#26 (permalink)
Brainx3 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 274	Re: CE stamping Carbon Fiber Tanks in Europe Hi, Thanks Brad for the link. The technology looks promising but no specifications were mentioned on the company's website. I will try to contact them and see what can be available for diving purposes. Best Regards. Wael __________________ The depth of life cannot be measured in Bars, nor can the sea of lies, that lies within. *I don't take crap for an answer...*
(Offline)

18th March 2008, 12:25	#27 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 325	Re: CE stamping Carbon Fiber Tanks in Europe So, for the 6.8 and 10 liters you don't have to look any further than Austria. no specials, off the shelf. And the price is really quite acceptable as well: 6.8 liter will set you back around 250-300 euro, including M25x2 valve. ciao, Tino. Quote: (Originally Posted by Brainx3) Hi, Thanks again for the feedback guys. Tino, I wasn't referring to any specific size although I found sizes between 1.4 liters up to 9 liters which are in production. I had no information about what European manufacturers were producing beside what you mentioned previously and I really thank you for that. I'm currently negotiating a couple of asian manufacturers to produce specific samples for diving purposes, and just inform you about the updates, I found the following: - O2 compatible plastic liner carbon fiber cylinders were produced by 1 big manufacturer in China but due to the lack of demands on such type they have cut the product line, and unless it's a big quantity (1000 pieces at least) then they won't be producing them anytime soon. - Al-Alloy liner carbon fiber cylinders are available and they are ANODIZED in order to prevent corrossion and they are 100% oxygen compatible. - All cylinders can be made with different thread sizes (18mm or 25mm) upon request. - Currently, there's a possibility to get the cylinders CE apporved before they get exported to Europes and that's the current discussion I'm having with the manufacturers. Alex, if you are interested in these cylinders then please send me PM to tell me the quantity and the sizes you want because the more we purchase the better discount we get. I will be asking for a few samples from the manufacturer so we can put it to test and I can send you a sample so you can test it to see the quality and give me some feedbacks. Best Regards. Wael
(Online)

20th March 2008, 13:48	#28 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: CE stamping Carbon Fiber Tanks in Europe Quote: (Originally Posted by Brad_Horn) Alex, Is this where you sourced the unusable batch of cylinders from Carleton Technologies - Pressure Technology Division designs, manufactures composite vessels, structures or was that from elsewhere? As you seem to be after a pallet load, which is quite a few I would guess for a 2L sized cylinder you ought to have a little leverage... If you have some made, feel free to have them meet the Australian spec for cylinders as well. regards Brad Hi Brad, The unusable batch were not Carleton cylinders. You guessed right with the size: it is 2litre that we use. We sample by buying 12, then if they pass would need 100 immediately, with larger batches following that. BrainX3 and I have spoken, and we look forward to following up his Chinese source. If they become available, then of course, anyone can buy now. Cheers, Alex
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