Using AL 80's for Bailout

diverreb · 13th February 2008, 14:52

The butt plate doesn't work out very well for me as it gets in the way gearing up and sitting back down on the boats. But I use a similar solution on the foot of the O2ptima. It works out well. I use the bungies from the butt plate to secure the tops of the tanks while clipping off the bottoms to the rings on the foot. They are easy to get to and if your only using one bottle can be used to clip other stuff off. Here are some pics....

The brass rings are from my local Amish Harness shop. The clamps are from McMaster Carr. Counter sunk the screws.... (same way the foot is attached)

Richie

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 13th February 2008, 15:17

Regarding putting the weight on yourself versus your tanks, you might want to consider the configuration of your your team members. If you attach the weights to the tanks and then have to trade 80 bottles with a team member during a bail out situation when the tank is getting low, this will not work so well if your team member does not have the weights on the tank. If you all have the same configuration, no problem.

**Bobmac** · 13th February 2008, 15:20

I'm a convert to Al80s as bail-out. I used steel tanks for ages then had to use aluminum once while traveling and now will never go back. I use a cam strap and weight to balance the cylinder while nearly empty.

Depth-junkie · 13th February 2008, 18:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bobmac)

I'm a convert to Al80s as bail-out. I used steel tanks for ages then had to use aluminum once while traveling and now will never go back. I use a cam strap and weight to balance the cylinder while nearly empty.

Never mind when they are empty, have you seen how the ****ers float when you have gas like 10/52 or 6/69 in??

I always used a 2kg weight at the bottom 1/4 of a ali80 tank on a bottom gas mix bottle just to keep the arse end down and make it hang a bit better inline with the neck of the bottle.

Have carried 3 80's before now on dives with no bother, big ugly bastards on land and a total PITA, but underwater they are pretty sweet.

Dont bother with them big bottles any more but thats a different story all together

ATB
Gareth

Shawn · 14th February 2008, 02:21

I use Al 80's all the time usually between 4 and 6 plus a couple of 40's.

If you use luxfer tanks the bouyancy swing isn't bad at all. Here's how to get your weighting;

with 500 PSI in ALL of your tanks you should be neutral at 20' fresh water (slight adjustments will be needed for salt water)

IF you needed to breath your tanks down to vacume you can without making an uncontrolled ascent to the surface DT under weighting.

As previously stated by scubadadmiami you need to think about your dive buddies.

at 160' or 200' your going to need more than a few tanks to get back safely. You should consider in you gas calculations the artificial ceiling dt deco obligations, your sac rate and your buddies sac rate in a full blown catastrophic event where you and your partner are forced to go OC.

We can prevent our own deaths by using a little common sence. Rebreathers are a different tool, and should never be used as a means of taking less and omitting safety for the sake of convience.

I have done a couple of other posts on bail out configuration and gas planning, and i'm more than willing to speak with you directly if you (or anyone else) would like.

The best part of a dive is making it back!

Didn't mean to throw a speach at you, but this is something I feel very strongly about!

PS: my spelling sucks...I know, but you get the point.

Depth-junkie · 14th February 2008, 08:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by Shawn)

I use Al 80's all the time usually between 4 and 6 plus a couple of 40's.

If you use luxfer tanks the bouyancy swing isn't bad at all. Here's how to get your weighting;

with 500 PSI in ALL of your tanks you should be neutral at 20' fresh water (slight adjustments will be needed for salt water)

IF you needed to breath your tanks down to vacume you can without making an uncontrolled ascent to the surface DT under weighting.

As previously stated by scubadadmiami you need to think about your dive buddies.

at 160' or 200' your going to need more than a few tanks to get back safely. You should consider in you gas calculations the artificial ceiling dt deco obligations, your sac rate and your buddies sac rate in a full blown catastrophic event where you and your partner are forced to go OC.

We can prevent our own deaths by using a little common sence. Rebreathers are a different tool, and should never be used as a means of taking less and omitting safety for the sake of convience.

I have done a couple of other posts on bail out configuration and gas planning, and i'm more than willing to speak with you directly if you (or anyone else) would like.

The best part of a dive is making it back!

Didn't mean to throw a speach at you, but this is something I feel very strongly about!

PS: my spelling sucks...I know, but you get the point.

I presme your speach was aimed at me?

dont worry fella, me and my buds have been full circle on bailout. We have a very clear understanding of what really works and what dont!!.

forget your 160-200ft dives, how many tins do you need for bailout on a 330-380ft dive for a 25min BT diving in cold dark UK waters??

But this thread aint about my bailout stratergies, we have a very clear and precise system of what can and cant be coverd for the diving we do. This has come from experiance and realistic practases. Dont mean to piss on your chips m8, but i accept the calculated risk of what will cause me to come off the loop (full-flood) rather than walking around with 4 or 5 80's hanging from me just in case i get a full flood at depth. As for CO2 dont even get me started

ATB
Gareth

Gadget · 15th February 2008, 13:27

Quick question what make of ali 80's are lift bags when empty. I have used luufers for years yeas the do turn tail up so what.

I had to prove it to people once thatthey where not lift bags. drained then completly re attached my first stage and thre them of the pontoons at the local dive site. trust me they sank all the way down to 50mtrs.

hand to make a dive then to recover them.

**Dave Sutton** · 15th February 2008, 14:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gadget)

I had to prove it to people once thatthey where not lift bags. drained then completly re attached my first stage and thre them of the pontoons at the local dive site. trust me they sank all the way down to 50mtrs.

Re-Try in Salt Water.....

Dave

.

***EBT*** · 15th February 2008, 14:14

Catalina's certainlty float in fresh when they're empty, even with rigging and a stage reg on it.

Deepwreck · 15th February 2008, 23:30

Everyone will think Im crazy but don't forget that if I am bailing out to begin with then I will be off the loop and that gas will need to be vented. If you colllapse the CL's thats a lot of bouyancy you wont have anymore. And if the dive is deep needing a full deco plan or you think you may need deco then where is the reel and lift bag? Once the bag is deployed and the CL kept more or less reduced in volume, you are not going to have a problem with emply tanks, and for sake of argument if you did you can still flood the system. Or just ditch the emply tanks in favor of living.

13th February 2008, 15:17	#12 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,939	Re: Using AL 80's for Bailout Regarding putting the weight on yourself versus your tanks, you might want to consider the configuration of your your team members. If you attach the weights to the tanks and then have to trade 80 bottles with a team member during a bail out situation when the tank is getting low, this will not work so well if your team member does not have the weights on the tank. If you all have the same configuration, no problem. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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13th February 2008, 15:20	#13 (permalink)
Bobmac I'm working on it! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 95	Re: Using AL 80's for Bailout I'm a convert to Al80s as bail-out. I used steel tanks for ages then had to use aluminum once while traveling and now will never go back. I use a cam strap and weight to balance the cylinder while nearly empty.
(Online)

13th February 2008, 18:09	#14 (permalink)
Depth-junkie 10/52 Psycho Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wrexham Posts: 288	Re: Using AL 80's for Bailout Quote: (Originally Posted by Bobmac) I'm a convert to Al80s as bail-out. I used steel tanks for ages then had to use aluminum once while traveling and now will never go back. I use a cam strap and weight to balance the cylinder while nearly empty. Never mind when they are empty, have you seen how the ****ers float when you have gas like 10/52 or 6/69 in?? I always used a 2kg weight at the bottom 1/4 of a ali80 tank on a bottom gas mix bottle just to keep the arse end down and make it hang a bit better inline with the neck of the bottle. Have carried 3 80's before now on dives with no bother, big ugly bastards on land and a total PITA, but underwater they are pretty sweet. Dont bother with them big bottles any more but thats a different story all together ATB Gareth __________________ Alpine low rider of the P.D.D.T
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14th February 2008, 02:21	#15 (permalink)
Shawn Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kansas City Kansas Posts: 106	Re: Using AL 80's for Bailout I use Al 80's all the time usually between 4 and 6 plus a couple of 40's. If you use luxfer tanks the bouyancy swing isn't bad at all. Here's how to get your weighting; with 500 PSI in ALL of your tanks you should be neutral at 20' fresh water (slight adjustments will be needed for salt water) IF you needed to breath your tanks down to vacume you can without making an uncontrolled ascent to the surface DT under weighting. As previously stated by scubadadmiami you need to think about your dive buddies. at 160' or 200' your going to need more than a few tanks to get back safely. You should consider in you gas calculations the artificial ceiling dt deco obligations, your sac rate and your buddies sac rate in a full blown catastrophic event where you and your partner are forced to go OC. We can prevent our own deaths by using a little common sence. Rebreathers are a different tool, and should never be used as a means of taking less and omitting safety for the sake of convience. I have done a couple of other posts on bail out configuration and gas planning, and i'm more than willing to speak with you directly if you (or anyone else) would like. The best part of a dive is making it back! Didn't mean to throw a speach at you, but this is something I feel very strongly about! PS: my spelling sucks...I know, but you get the point. __________________ WWW.DiveOne.net
(Offline)

14th February 2008, 08:08	#16 (permalink)
Depth-junkie 10/52 Psycho Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wrexham Posts: 288	Re: Using AL 80's for Bailout Quote: (Originally Posted by Shawn) I use Al 80's all the time usually between 4 and 6 plus a couple of 40's. If you use luxfer tanks the bouyancy swing isn't bad at all. Here's how to get your weighting; with 500 PSI in ALL of your tanks you should be neutral at 20' fresh water (slight adjustments will be needed for salt water) IF you needed to breath your tanks down to vacume you can without making an uncontrolled ascent to the surface DT under weighting. As previously stated by scubadadmiami you need to think about your dive buddies. at 160' or 200' your going to need more than a few tanks to get back safely. You should consider in you gas calculations the artificial ceiling dt deco obligations, your sac rate and your buddies sac rate in a full blown catastrophic event where you and your partner are forced to go OC. We can prevent our own deaths by using a little common sence. Rebreathers are a different tool, and should never be used as a means of taking less and omitting safety for the sake of convience. I have done a couple of other posts on bail out configuration and gas planning, and i'm more than willing to speak with you directly if you (or anyone else) would like. The best part of a dive is making it back! Didn't mean to throw a speach at you, but this is something I feel very strongly about! PS: my spelling sucks...I know, but you get the point. I presme your speach was aimed at me? dont worry fella, me and my buds have been full circle on bailout. We have a very clear understanding of what really works and what dont!!. forget your 160-200ft dives, how many tins do you need for bailout on a 330-380ft dive for a 25min BT diving in cold dark UK waters?? But this thread aint about my bailout stratergies, we have a very clear and precise system of what can and cant be coverd for the diving we do. This has come from experiance and realistic practases. Dont mean to piss on your chips m8, but i accept the calculated risk of what will cause me to come off the loop (full-flood) rather than walking around with 4 or 5 80's hanging from me just in case i get a full flood at depth. As for CO2 dont even get me started ATB Gareth __________________ Alpine low rider of the P.D.D.T
(Offline)

15th February 2008, 13:27	#17 (permalink)
Gadget Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon rEvo Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Dolphin Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: Hoddesdon, Herts. Posts: 161	Re: Using AL 80's for Bailout Quick question what make of ali 80's are lift bags when empty. I have used luufers for years yeas the do turn tail up so what. I had to prove it to people once thatthey where not lift bags. drained then completly re attached my first stage and thre them of the pontoons at the local dive site. trust me they sank all the way down to 50mtrs. hand to make a dive then to recover them. __________________ Si Lawrence www.divehdi.com
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15th February 2008, 14:07	#18 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,512	Re: Using AL 80's for Bailout Quote: (Originally Posted by Gadget) I had to prove it to people once thatthey where not lift bags. drained then completly re attached my first stage and thre them of the pontoons at the local dive site. trust me they sank all the way down to 50mtrs. Re-Try in Salt Water..... Dave . __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
(Online)

15th February 2008, 14:14	#19 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,855	Re: Using AL 80's for Bailout Catalina's certainlty float in fresh when they're empty, even with rigging and a stage reg on it. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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15th February 2008, 23:30	#20 (permalink)
Deepwreck Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 112	Re: Using AL 80's for Bailout Everyone will think Im crazy but don't forget that if I am bailing out to begin with then I will be off the loop and that gas will need to be vented. If you colllapse the CL's thats a lot of bouyancy you wont have anymore. And if the dive is deep needing a full deco plan or you think you may need deco then where is the reel and lift bag? Once the bag is deployed and the CL kept more or less reduced in volume, you are not going to have a problem with emply tanks, and for sake of argument if you did you can still flood the system. Or just ditch the emply tanks in favor of living. __________________ OC is for Bailout! Go Big, then go home.
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