M&J Vs. CEJN

Pelagian · 10th February 2008, 17:14

Does anyone know the flow rates of the M&J Quick disconnect fitting seen here:

Rebreather World Store

I'd like to compare it to the CEJN fittings but can't find the data and Omniswivel isn't responding to my emails.

Cheers

eb

**Dave Sutton** · 10th February 2008, 17:58

The parts are almost identical, and so the flows are going to be functionally identical.

It's frustrating to have this (M&J) 'non standard to anything' part circulating, it's only a few thousands of an inch different, and it looks the same but simply does not interchange. Ocean Reef quick connects for their FFM are CEJN compatable, do exactly what the M&J one does, and interchange with all of the hoses out there for drysuits, air-source hoses, etc.

The sooner that M&J change the part, the better off we'll all be. There is no sense to have a 'fits one thing' part out there for sale.

Jakub, PLEASE? Thanks!

Dave

.

lizardland · 10th February 2008, 18:05

Do the male Ocean Reef parts have a shutoff? I bought the M&J system because the male part has a shutoff a la Swagelok QC6 style. I'd rather have a standard fitting but other than a QC6 I couldn't find anything that did what I needed.

The thing I don't like with the M&J is that the safety catch on the female fitting is a total pain in the arse to work with cold hands.

**Dave Sutton** · 10th February 2008, 18:52

DESO = Double End Shut Off
SESO = Single End Shut Off

Neither the CEJN or the M&J ones that you want to use are DESO. To answer the question before it's asked: There is no real reason to try to exclude water from the male side. Attached to a BOV, what difference does a CC of water mean? Wash it. Even in most DESO there will be a small quantity of water entrained in the gas if they are connected underwater. Again, if corrosion is an issue, once you disconnect one and then reconnect it underwater you still need to clean the system downstream of the connection.

Using the CEJN male remotely from the regulator, use of a one-way checkvalve at the connector does an adequate job of water exclusion. Not perfect, but adequate. And that's exactly how the catalog M&J part is being offered.

Agreed that the DESO M&J's are essentially unusable with dry mitts.

Dave

.

diverreb · 10th February 2008, 20:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

DESO = Double End Shut Off
SESO = Single End Shut Off

Neither the CEJN or the M&J ones that you want to use are DESO. To answer the question before it's asked: There is no real reason to try to exclude water from the male side. Attached to a BOV, what difference does a CC of water mean? Wash it. Even in most DESO there will be a small quantity of water entrained in the gas if they are connected underwater. Again, if corrosion is an issue, once you disconnect one and then reconnect it underwater you still need to clean the system downstream of the connection.

Using the CEJN male remotely from the regulator, use of a one-way checkvalve at the connector does an adequate job of water exclusion. Not perfect, but adequate. And that's exactly how the catalog M&J part is being offered.

Agreed that the DESO M&J's are essentially unusable with dry mitts.

Dave

.

Even if you file off that little nub? I think that was suggested by you a while back....

Richie

lizardland · 10th February 2008, 20:59

Hi Dave,

the male fitting is on a pigtail to my manifold which feeds the wing and the BOV, so there's probably 1m or so of plumbing to flood. If it was just a hook-up to the BOV I wouldn't be bothered but it just makes life that little bit easier having a shut off. I didn't like the idea of getting water into the wrong side of the old KISS Paragon BOV as it was a piece of crap at the best of times. I could live without but it's in the nice to have category.

Cheers,

Stuart

kiwidiver · 10th February 2008, 23:42

You can make them compatible with cejn the mj nipples just need to be spun in the lathe or drill press with a file if you are really tight to deepen the groove the ball bearings recess into by about .4mm .then they will interchange with cejn females.First thing I did was get the dremel out and cut the locking tab of on the rotating collar on the female coupling.I agree with dave if they made them one standard fitting accross the board life would be alot simpler.From memory i think the flow rate was 25l min???

**Dave Sutton** · 11th February 2008, 00:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

Hi Dave,

the male fitting is on a pigtail to my manifold which feeds the wing and the BOV, so there's probably 1m or so of plumbing to flood. If it was just a hook-up to the BOV I wouldn't be bothered but it just makes life that little bit easier having a shut off. I didn't like the idea of getting water into the wrong side of the old KISS Paragon BOV as it was a piece of crap at the best of times. I could live without but it's in the nice to have category.

Cheers,

Stuart

Stuart, I have the same sort of system on my rEvo for my offboard gas to the rig and BOV, and all I did was to add a one-way checkvalve between the male stub and the rest of the hose. Works fine. Look on the rEvo threads and you'll see photos. Nothing wrong with using DESO QC-6's for that either.

Dave

**Bobmac** · 11th February 2008, 01:21

I use the DESO QC6s and they work like a charm.

kiwidiver · 11th February 2008, 01:42

qc6 are fine my gripe with them in no order is the weight,bulk,price and alot more parts inside to pull apart and service.Most of us can find cejn hoses in any dive shop and the flow is more than adequate in most applications.I do have qc6 on my kirby morgan helmets (bailout whips)just not on my Rebreather rig.

10th February 2008, 17:14	#1 (permalink)
Pelagian Multi-Circuit Meg Monkey! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Optima Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 280	M&J Vs. CEJN Does anyone know the flow rates of the M&J Quick disconnect fitting seen here: Rebreather World Store I'd like to compare it to the CEJN fittings but can't find the data and Omniswivel isn't responding to my emails. Cheers eb __________________ 'Because... I was Inverted!'
(Online)

10th February 2008, 17:58	#2 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,689	Re: M&J Vs. CEJN The parts are almost identical, and so the flows are going to be functionally identical. It's frustrating to have this (M&J) 'non standard to anything' part circulating, it's only a few thousands of an inch different, and it looks the same but simply does not interchange. Ocean Reef quick connects for their FFM are CEJN compatable, do exactly what the M&J one does, and interchange with all of the hoses out there for drysuits, air-source hoses, etc. The sooner that M&J change the part, the better off we'll all be. There is no sense to have a 'fits one thing' part out there for sale. Jakub, PLEASE? Thanks! Dave . __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Offline)

10th February 2008, 18:05	#3 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,303	Re: M&J Vs. CEJN Do the male Ocean Reef parts have a shutoff? I bought the M&J system because the male part has a shutoff a la Swagelok QC6 style. I'd rather have a standard fitting but other than a QC6 I couldn't find anything that did what I needed. The thing I don't like with the M&J is that the safety catch on the female fitting is a total pain in the arse to work with cold hands. __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
(Offline)

10th February 2008, 18:52	#4 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,689	Re: M&J Vs. CEJN DESO = Double End Shut Off SESO = Single End Shut Off Neither the CEJN or the M&J ones that you want to use are DESO. To answer the question before it's asked: There is no real reason to try to exclude water from the male side. Attached to a BOV, what difference does a CC of water mean? Wash it. Even in most DESO there will be a small quantity of water entrained in the gas if they are connected underwater. Again, if corrosion is an issue, once you disconnect one and then reconnect it underwater you still need to clean the system downstream of the connection. Using the CEJN male remotely from the regulator, use of a one-way checkvalve at the connector does an adequate job of water exclusion. Not perfect, but adequate. And that's exactly how the catalog M&J part is being offered. Agreed that the DESO M&J's are essentially unusable with dry mitts. Dave . __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com Last edited by Dave Sutton : 10th February 2008 at 18:55.
(Offline)

10th February 2008, 20:39	#5 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 596	Re: M&J Vs. CEJN Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) DESO = Double End Shut Off SESO = Single End Shut Off Neither the CEJN or the M&J ones that you want to use are DESO. To answer the question before it's asked: There is no real reason to try to exclude water from the male side. Attached to a BOV, what difference does a CC of water mean? Wash it. Even in most DESO there will be a small quantity of water entrained in the gas if they are connected underwater. Again, if corrosion is an issue, once you disconnect one and then reconnect it underwater you still need to clean the system downstream of the connection. Using the CEJN male remotely from the regulator, use of a one-way checkvalve at the connector does an adequate job of water exclusion. Not perfect, but adequate. And that's exactly how the catalog M&J part is being offered. Agreed that the DESO M&J's are essentially unusable with dry mitts. Dave . Even if you file off that little nub? I think that was suggested by you a while back.... Richie
(Offline)

10th February 2008, 20:59	#6 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,303	Re: M&J Vs. CEJN Hi Dave, the male fitting is on a pigtail to my manifold which feeds the wing and the BOV, so there's probably 1m or so of plumbing to flood. If it was just a hook-up to the BOV I wouldn't be bothered but it just makes life that little bit easier having a shut off. I didn't like the idea of getting water into the wrong side of the old KISS Paragon BOV as it was a piece of crap at the best of times. I could live without but it's in the nice to have category. Cheers, Stuart __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
(Offline)

10th February 2008, 23:42	#7 (permalink)
kiwidiver Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: new zealand Posts: 136	Re: M&J Vs. CEJN You can make them compatible with cejn the mj nipples just need to be spun in the lathe or drill press with a file if you are really tight to deepen the groove the ball bearings recess into by about .4mm .then they will interchange with cejn females.First thing I did was get the dremel out and cut the locking tab of on the rotating collar on the female coupling.I agree with dave if they made them one standard fitting accross the board life would be alot simpler.From memory i think the flow rate was 25l min???
(Offline)

11th February 2008, 00:17	#8 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,689	Re: M&J Vs. CEJN Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) Hi Dave, the male fitting is on a pigtail to my manifold which feeds the wing and the BOV, so there's probably 1m or so of plumbing to flood. If it was just a hook-up to the BOV I wouldn't be bothered but it just makes life that little bit easier having a shut off. I didn't like the idea of getting water into the wrong side of the old KISS Paragon BOV as it was a piece of crap at the best of times. I could live without but it's in the nice to have category. Cheers, Stuart Stuart, I have the same sort of system on my rEvo for my offboard gas to the rig and BOV, and all I did was to add a one-way checkvalve between the male stub and the rest of the hose. Works fine. Look on the rEvo threads and you'll see photos. Nothing wrong with using DESO QC-6's for that either. Dave __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Offline)

11th February 2008, 01:21	#9 (permalink)
Bobmac I'm working on it! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 101	Re: M&J Vs. CEJN I use the DESO QC6s and they work like a charm.
(Offline)

11th February 2008, 01:42	#10 (permalink)
kiwidiver Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: new zealand Posts: 136	Re: M&J Vs. CEJN qc6 are fine my gripe with them in no order is the weight,bulk,price and alot more parts inside to pull apart and service.Most of us can find cejn hoses in any dive shop and the flow is more than adequate in most applications.I do have qc6 on my kirby morgan helmets (bailout whips)just not on my Rebreather rig.
(Offline)

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