DUI Dry Suits

Mephisto26 · 24th July 2007, 21:04

Hey guys,

Anybody has any experience with the "cave cut" on the TLS350???

And now after some time has passed (read the last threat) what is your opinion on the Zip Seals???

And finally what about them rock boots???

Thanks for your input...

Patrick

***Decodiver*** · 24th July 2007, 21:51

I don't need the cave cut, have the zip seals, think they're great and like the rock boots too.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Benthic · 24th July 2007, 21:59

I have a 'cave cut' DUI TLS350, but I bought it before they made you sign the waiver about fit. I've been told that if you specify that you want the suit to fit 'snug with a 400g undergarment' you will effectively get the same cut, but without the need for a waiver.

As for the rock boots, I'm not a fan. In all fairness I should point out that I have never used them. I avoided them because they seemed to me like something else to keep up with. I also have several friends who currently have rock boots and are in the process of having turbo soles put on.

No experience with zip seals. They seem like a reasonable idea, provided they hold up well. But, on the other hand, I've never found the latex seals to be so fragile that having spares was that critical. I got five years out of my last set of seals. Even after a week of diving in petroleum contaminated water, they were still fine.

Brian

tflaris · 24th July 2007, 22:43

Current owner of a TLS 320 with zip seals and rock boots. I use mine mainly for cave diving in 72 degree water. I really enjoy the rock boots and would highly recommend them. They are much like a tennis shoe instead of a scuba style bootie. They offer great traction and stability out of the water. I did have to bump up in size on my Jet Fins. But this is not the case with everyone. I did not request a cave cut but was in between sizes and decided on the smaller size. Purchased the suit at DEMA straight from DUI and was told that the fit would be considered a cave cut. I am somewhat limited on diving other places with extremely cold water Great Lakes etc but do not have major plans. I have replacement neck and wrist seals and enjoy the peace of mind that I can keep diving if either seal was damaged and needed replacement. Hope this information helps.

Crazyduck · 24th July 2007, 22:46

Brian covered most of the bases.

Rock boots really take up space in you fin pocket and depending on your shoe size it might make it difficult to wear certain fins. IE- Jets.
Then again if you walk in gravel or stones a lot it can be beneficially.
I am tempted to go with the Turbo soles next time.

Description of putting them on-

It is strange to have to put your socks on, DUI under booties, and then your drysuit. If you have rock boots then you have to make sure your drysuit sock is just right and make sure you slide your foot into the rock boot without catching the laces or folding over the tongue. It’s not fun in the gulf with a rocking boat or in the middle of the summer when its 100 plus degrees outside.

Andrew

Philippe GERIN · 24th July 2007, 23:59

Nearly everything has been covered by our fellow divers above.
My take: no need for a cave cut as long as you get measured by someone who knows and that you don't change your undies from Lycra skin to double layer of thick undies for example.
Note the wrist zipseals add about 1 inch to the lentgh of the arm, I had them undercut the arm length by 1". They won't want but insist on it.
They are good if you change to zipgloves during winter, otherwise standard seals are good.
Neck zipseal is a PITA: the hard ring around the neck interfere with the harness. I had it remove from my CF200 and I didn't get one on my TLS.
I took the Rockboot because I divermaster on charter boats sometimes and that saved my toes a few times when these dumb f***ers drop a tank on your foot. I have turbosoles on a FLX50/50 and I like them too. As long as you get the right size (a bit tight), they're fine boots.
If you intend to use the socks with wet booties (O'Three for example), then get the socks so you don't were anything thicker than a standard sport sock underneath because you'll have the insulation anyway with the CF200 sock and the wet booties.
Note: DUI has an option on their Public safety TLS that can be of interest: the sock is made from CLX450 material. Makes it for a light sock that dries immediately and is not as thick as the CF200 material, so you can get the Rockboots a size shorter. That helps for the Jetfins, Turtle, OMS slipstream or even DR fins sizing. It's even better with wet booties.
If you want to have the lightest suit but still very strong, get the cordura 2nd layer on the legs. Actually the best version of the TLS is probably the Explorer with Cordura all around.
Best
Philippe

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 25th July 2007, 00:21

I have something from almost everything on the menu of advice from above.

First of all, the Explorer, as of the time that I got my suit, is not available in the U. S. However, if you tell DUI to get as close to it as you can, they will put a CLX450 overlay with cordura at the top, and they will do a partial wrap of cordura on the legs. To this, I added a butt pad, a crotch pad for scootering, and the neoprene knee pads. This makes the suit covered in a good portion of cordura in the spots that typically take the heavy abuse.

I use the turbo soles. I have never tried the rock boots. However, I have not had an issue with cave diving and rocks using the turbo soles. I would imagine that the rock boots are better if you are in very slick areas underfoot a lot. However, like I said, I have no personal experience with them. They seem like they would be a pain to deal with from the little I have seen.

I have been using the ZipSeals pretty much since they were introduced. I have them on the neck and the wrists, and I swear by them. A few years ago, I convinced DUI to offer members of the Deco Stop (.com) the free opportunity to switch back to standard seals if they were not happy with the ZipSeals. So, you can always ask them if they would do the same thing for you if you are not happy. Of course, they might have been willing to do this back then, when they were a new item and people were having doubts about their viability. It is entirely possible that they will no longer make this offer since they sell very well on the market. Ask DUI.

DUI will now make you sign a waiver if you get the cave cut on the suit. I did not feel confident enough to do this. So, I sent them a three page letter with my order, with a much more detailed measurement chart than comes on the standard order form, and containing measurements taken in street clothes and DUI 200 gram thinsulate thermals. In this letter, I also described in great detail how I wanted the suit cut (extra shoulder space for reaching valves, etc.). I am very happy with the outcome.

All this being said, I think that my next suit will be a CLX450 in all cordura. My suit is great. However, I can be tough on suits between the wreck diving and cave diving. The last time I ordered, I was going to get the CLX450, but DUI wanted me to sign a waiver for this, and when I heard about the Explorer Series, I figured that this would be a good compromise between the lightweightness and ease of movement of the 350 when also seeking the toughness of the 450.

Mephisto26 · 25th July 2007, 05:21

If this forum doesn't rock I don't know which one is...thanks to all of you for your input...

And this brings me to my last question...size...

Anyone of you had problems with the cut to fit??? or do most of you go with stock size suits...

Problem for me, I live in playa del carmen mexico and have no possibility to see either a dealer nor try on a suit...

If its not asked too much would be nice to get some of your messurments and what seize u took plus of course the undergarnment that you use...

Thanks again...

Patrick

decoweenie · 25th July 2007, 05:32

Most info already mentioned so just want to add some tid-bits...

If going with Rock-Boots, you could also use a larger size normal neoprene booties instead so you could zip in/out faster than lacing the Rock-Boots up. Or if you want to reduce the amount of stiffness.

Check out the Fourth-Element Xenotherm undersuit system. It might be better for the temperature range in your area, and it is a lot more flexible than 400g.

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 25th July 2007, 06:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mephisto26)

Anyone of you had problems with the cut to fit??? or do most of you go with stock size suits...

I went with a custom cut. (The suit was already expensive. So, why not go the rest of the way?

) I figured that I would be using it for a long enough time that I did not want to hate wearing the suit because of an off size. I was very happy that I got the custom size in the end. I'd go for it if you can swing the extra bucks.

To make sure I got the measurements right, I got a diver friend of mine to measure me, then I went to one taylor, and then I went to a second. I used concensus measurements (averaged out between the three) because eash one came up with slightly different numbers. I did one set of measurements in street clothes, which is the way DUI says to do it, and then a second set using a 200 gram Thinsulate set of thermals. Then, I wrote a note to DUI telling them to make it so that I can wear 400 gram but without lots of extra room.

I think that all of my extra work helped DUI get it right on the first try. Many others end out waiting for their suit delivery only to find that things are off, and then they have to send the suit back to get fixes done. I didn't. Could have just been the luck of the draw, or it could have been that I gave them very specific information, making it easier for them to make the proper cut.

Good luck!

24th July 2007, 21:04	#1 (permalink)
Mephisto26 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Playa del Carmen Q.Roo Mexico Posts: 90	DUI Dry Suits Hey guys, Anybody has any experience with the "cave cut" on the TLS350??? And now after some time has passed (read the last threat) what is your opinion on the Zip Seals??? And finally what about them rock boots??? Thanks for your input... Patrick
(Online)

24th July 2007, 21:51	#2 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,194	Re: DUI Dry Suits I don't need the cave cut, have the zip seals, think they're great and like the rock boots too. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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24th July 2007, 21:59	#3 (permalink)
Benthic MEGalomaniac Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pensacola, FL USA Posts: 226	Re: DUI Dry Suits I have a 'cave cut' DUI TLS350, but I bought it before they made you sign the waiver about fit. I've been told that if you specify that you want the suit to fit 'snug with a 400g undergarment' you will effectively get the same cut, but without the need for a waiver. As for the rock boots, I'm not a fan. In all fairness I should point out that I have never used them. I avoided them because they seemed to me like something else to keep up with. I also have several friends who currently have rock boots and are in the process of having turbo soles put on. No experience with zip seals. They seem like a reasonable idea, provided they hold up well. But, on the other hand, I've never found the latex seals to be so fragile that having spares was that critical. I got five years out of my last set of seals. Even after a week of diving in petroleum contaminated water, they were still fine. Brian __________________ Well lit rooms will not repel determined beer ninjas.
(Online)

24th July 2007, 22:43	#4 (permalink)
tflaris God save the Queen Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida Posts: 274	Re: DUI Dry Suits Current owner of a TLS 320 with zip seals and rock boots. I use mine mainly for cave diving in 72 degree water. I really enjoy the rock boots and would highly recommend them. They are much like a tennis shoe instead of a scuba style bootie. They offer great traction and stability out of the water. I did have to bump up in size on my Jet Fins. But this is not the case with everyone. I did not request a cave cut but was in between sizes and decided on the smaller size. Purchased the suit at DEMA straight from DUI and was told that the fit would be considered a cave cut. I am somewhat limited on diving other places with extremely cold water Great Lakes etc but do not have major plans. I have replacement neck and wrist seals and enjoy the peace of mind that I can keep diving if either seal was damaged and needed replacement. Hope this information helps. __________________ "Except for this one, I have come to the conclusion that all generalizations are false" -Jim Hayes
(Online)

24th July 2007, 22:46	#5 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 718	Re: DUI Dry Suits Brian covered most of the bases. Rock boots really take up space in you fin pocket and depending on your shoe size it might make it difficult to wear certain fins. IE- Jets. Then again if you walk in gravel or stones a lot it can be beneficially. I am tempted to go with the Turbo soles next time. Description of putting them on- It is strange to have to put your socks on, DUI under booties, and then your drysuit. If you have rock boots then you have to make sure your drysuit sock is just right and make sure you slide your foot into the rock boot without catching the laces or folding over the tongue. It’s not fun in the gulf with a rocking boat or in the middle of the summer when its 100 plus degrees outside. Andrew __________________ Howdy Senor- What’s Happening! Rob Davie April 2005- Presently in a state of transition from Open Circuit to Closed Circuit. "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by it." - Buddha.
(Offline)

24th July 2007, 23:59	#6 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 647	Re: DUI Dry Suits Nearly everything has been covered by our fellow divers above. My take: no need for a cave cut as long as you get measured by someone who knows and that you don't change your undies from Lycra skin to double layer of thick undies for example. Note the wrist zipseals add about 1 inch to the lentgh of the arm, I had them undercut the arm length by 1". They won't want but insist on it. They are good if you change to zipgloves during winter, otherwise standard seals are good. Neck zipseal is a PITA: the hard ring around the neck interfere with the harness. I had it remove from my CF200 and I didn't get one on my TLS. I took the Rockboot because I divermaster on charter boats sometimes and that saved my toes a few times when these dumb f***ers drop a tank on your foot. I have turbosoles on a FLX50/50 and I like them too. As long as you get the right size (a bit tight), they're fine boots. If you intend to use the socks with wet booties (O'Three for example), then get the socks so you don't were anything thicker than a standard sport sock underneath because you'll have the insulation anyway with the CF200 sock and the wet booties. Note: DUI has an option on their Public safety TLS that can be of interest: the sock is made from CLX450 material. Makes it for a light sock that dries immediately and is not as thick as the CF200 material, so you can get the Rockboots a size shorter. That helps for the Jetfins, Turtle, OMS slipstream or even DR fins sizing. It's even better with wet booties. If you want to have the lightest suit but still very strong, get the cordura 2nd layer on the legs. Actually the best version of the TLS is probably the Explorer with Cordura all around. Best Philippe
(Offline)

25th July 2007, 00:21	#7 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,214	Re: DUI Dry Suits I have something from almost everything on the menu of advice from above. First of all, the Explorer, as of the time that I got my suit, is not available in the U. S. However, if you tell DUI to get as close to it as you can, they will put a CLX450 overlay with cordura at the top, and they will do a partial wrap of cordura on the legs. To this, I added a butt pad, a crotch pad for scootering, and the neoprene knee pads. This makes the suit covered in a good portion of cordura in the spots that typically take the heavy abuse. I use the turbo soles. I have never tried the rock boots. However, I have not had an issue with cave diving and rocks using the turbo soles. I would imagine that the rock boots are better if you are in very slick areas underfoot a lot. However, like I said, I have no personal experience with them. They seem like they would be a pain to deal with from the little I have seen. I have been using the ZipSeals pretty much since they were introduced. I have them on the neck and the wrists, and I swear by them. A few years ago, I convinced DUI to offer members of the Deco Stop (.com) the free opportunity to switch back to standard seals if they were not happy with the ZipSeals. So, you can always ask them if they would do the same thing for you if you are not happy. Of course, they might have been willing to do this back then, when they were a new item and people were having doubts about their viability. It is entirely possible that they will no longer make this offer since they sell very well on the market. Ask DUI. DUI will now make you sign a waiver if you get the cave cut on the suit. I did not feel confident enough to do this. So, I sent them a three page letter with my order, with a much more detailed measurement chart than comes on the standard order form, and containing measurements taken in street clothes and DUI 200 gram thinsulate thermals. In this letter, I also described in great detail how I wanted the suit cut (extra shoulder space for reaching valves, etc.). I am very happy with the outcome. All this being said, I think that my next suit will be a CLX450 in all cordura. My suit is great. However, I can be tough on suits between the wreck diving and cave diving. The last time I ordered, I was going to get the CLX450, but DUI wanted me to sign a waiver for this, and when I heard about the Explorer Series, I figured that this would be a good compromise between the lightweightness and ease of movement of the 350 when also seeking the toughness of the 450. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
(Offline)

25th July 2007, 05:21	#8 (permalink)
Mephisto26 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Playa del Carmen Q.Roo Mexico Posts: 90	Re: DUI Dry Suits If this forum doesn't rock I don't know which one is...thanks to all of you for your input... And this brings me to my last question...size... Anyone of you had problems with the cut to fit??? or do most of you go with stock size suits... Problem for me, I live in playa del carmen mexico and have no possibility to see either a dealer nor try on a suit... If its not asked too much would be nice to get some of your messurments and what seize u took plus of course the undergarnment that you use... Thanks again... Patrick
(Online)

25th July 2007, 05:32	#9 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: DUI Dry Suits Most info already mentioned so just want to add some tid-bits... If going with Rock-Boots, you could also use a larger size normal neoprene booties instead so you could zip in/out faster than lacing the Rock-Boots up. Or if you want to reduce the amount of stiffness. Check out the Fourth-Element Xenotherm undersuit system. It might be better for the temperature range in your area, and it is a lot more flexible than 400g. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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25th July 2007, 06:25	#10 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,214	Re: DUI Dry Suits Quote: (Originally Posted by Mephisto26) Anyone of you had problems with the cut to fit??? or do most of you go with stock size suits... I went with a custom cut. (The suit was already expensive. So, why not go the rest of the way? ) I figured that I would be using it for a long enough time that I did not want to hate wearing the suit because of an off size. I was very happy that I got the custom size in the end. I'd go for it if you can swing the extra bucks. To make sure I got the measurements right, I got a diver friend of mine to measure me, then I went to one taylor, and then I went to a second. I used concensus measurements (averaged out between the three) because eash one came up with slightly different numbers. I did one set of measurements in street clothes, which is the way DUI says to do it, and then a second set using a 200 gram Thinsulate set of thermals. Then, I wrote a note to DUI telling them to make it so that I can wear 400 gram but without lots of extra room. I think that all of my extra work helped DUI get it right on the first try. Many others end out waiting for their suit delivery only to find that things are off, and then they have to send the suit back to get fixes done. I didn't. Could have just been the luck of the draw, or it could have been that I gave them very specific information, making it easier for them to make the proper cut. Good luck! __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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