Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage?

**Dave1w** · 8th June 2007, 03:56

Just a thought, but has anyone used one of the integrated pillar vale / first stage jobbies like the Zeagle Razor on a Rebreather.

I don't know if it woudl be O2 compatible, but I am just think whether or not there would be any advantages using something like that.

Cheers
Dave

silent running · 8th June 2007, 07:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave1w)

Just a thought, but has anyone used one of the integrated pillar vale / first stage jobbies like the Zeagle Razor on a Rebreather.

I don't know if it woudl be O2 compatible, but I am just think whether or not there would be any advantages using something like that.

Cheers
Dave

Hi Dave, my buddy Captain Craig De Wit uses the Apollo version of the 1st stage/pillar valve for his needled MCCR Drager Ray and Dolphin. He's the owner/operator of the Papua New Guinea liveaboard MV Golden Dawn, and so of course being out in the middle of nowhere, he services his own gear. I'm assuming he took apart one of them and O2 cleaned it, so it must be possible. He put them on 2 1ltr aly cylinders and stuffs the O2 in one side weight pocket of the Dolphin BC and the dil in the other side and uses the butt mount nitrox cylinder for BO. It's a very clever and compact rig for rec CCR diving and the cheapest rig I've seen, if one were to start with a used Drager. Not sure how he mounts the little cylinders on the Ray, haven't seen that rig yet. I'm sure if you email him he can give you details... -Andy

teksimple · 8th June 2007, 07:37

Thanks, very interesting. Here is more info if anyone else is interested...

The lower weight of such an integrated system should reduce a unit's butt mass. The Razor weighs about the same as my Apeks DS4 alone, so would be good for the Sport KISS.

When I have an extra $310 lying around, I might buy a pair of those. That and a bit of syntactic foam and my girlfriend may be styling with her Sport KISS.

decoweenie · 8th June 2007, 07:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by teksimple)

Thanks, very interesting. Here is more info if anyone else is interested...

Thanks for finding the link, it is very interesting.

Huhmmm, with this valve/reg and the composite tank, I could really reduce the travel weight for the next trip...

**Dave1w** · 8th June 2007, 09:22

I am tempted, I am going over the SK bit by bit trying to get it more and more travel friendly. This could be a good un, especially with upright tanks and short hoses.

Cheers
Dave

jaap · 8th June 2007, 09:27

Yes

Leisurepro sells somthing like that:

Scuba Accessories from LeisurePro.com

This sort of thing could also be nice for those that need to save space and get cylinders to fit inside a shell w/o need for making extra holes for the valves (like on IDA-71s).

My concern is loosing the ability to easily change the 1stage if something is not OK. Or how easy it is to reach those tiny valve knobs.

Anyone knows if these can be had with M25 threads?

Philippe GERIN · 8th June 2007, 14:02

H2Odyssey EAS or EAS II; Leisurepro; Techdiving ltd (suit inflation system). Google Extra Air source. All the same or very similar. Cheaper than Zeagle. Get the one with the bigger red knob, not the small SS one (too difficult to turn on/off). In theory to be used with a needle valve only as flow will increase with depth if used with a Kiss valve, but some report using it with a SK with no problem. IP is adjusted by replacing parts, not just turn a screw.
O2 compatibility really is unknown as far as material is concerned but if you clean it thouroughly it should be OK. Now these reg/valve/tank combinations are filled directly from a tank. Beware of adiabatic effects or better disassemble the filling piece and add a needle valve and a hose to it otherwise you left with just the source tank valve to control the filling flow.
Best
Philippe

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave1w)

has anyone used one of the integrated pillar vale / first stage jobbies like the Zeagle Razor on a Rebreather.
Cheers
Dave

babar · 8th June 2007, 14:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hi Dave, my buddy Captain Craig De Wit uses the Apollo version of the 1st stage/pillar valve for his needled MCCR Drager Ray and Dolphin. He's the owner/operator of the Papua New Guinea liveaboard MV Golden Dawn, and so of course being out in the middle of nowhere, he services his own gear. I'm assuming he took apart one of them and O2 cleaned it, so it must be possible. He put them on 2 1ltr aly cylinders and stuffs the O2 in one side weight pocket of the Dolphin BC and the dil in the other side and uses the butt mount nitrox cylinder for BO. It's a very clever and compact rig for rec CCR diving and the cheapest rig I've seen, if one were to start with a used Drager. Not sure how he mounts the little cylinders on the Ray, haven't seen that rig yet. I'm sure if you email him he can give you details... -Andy

I met Craig onboard the nuatilus explorer. He had a great, super compact conversion made out of a ray, I believe. Did not see him have a single problem with it.

Ask him about his shark-calling technique

**Scott** · 14th February 2008, 03:16

Sorry to revive yet another old dead thread.. but... H2odyssey is coming out with a sealed integrated pillar valve/first stage...

lightweight kiss anyone =)

H2Odyssey...Air Systems

I talked to scubatoys by phone week before last, and they said that they have had some on order for a little while but had not yet received them.. but something its I've been thinking about

-Anyone else have thoughts on it?

-Scott

dave t · 14th February 2008, 08:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott)

Sorry to revive yet another old dead thread.. but... H2odyssey is coming out with a sealed integrated pillar valve/first stage...

lightweight kiss anyone =)

H2Odyssey...Air Systems

I talked to scubatoys by phone week before last, and they said that they have had some on order for a little while but had not yet received them.. but something its I've been thinking about

-Anyone else have thoughts on it?

-Scott

Looks like the one with the enviro seal could easily be converted to fixed IP

Dave

8th June 2007, 03:56	#1 (permalink)
Dave1w Born Again Diver! Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Dolphin Ray Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore / UK Posts: 338	Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? Just a thought, but has anyone used one of the integrated pillar vale / first stage jobbies like the Zeagle Razor on a Rebreather. I don't know if it woudl be O2 compatible, but I am just think whether or not there would be any advantages using something like that. Cheers Dave
(Online)

8th June 2007, 07:36	#2 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,810	Re: Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave1w) Just a thought, but has anyone used one of the integrated pillar vale / first stage jobbies like the Zeagle Razor on a Rebreather. I don't know if it woudl be O2 compatible, but I am just think whether or not there would be any advantages using something like that. Cheers Dave Hi Dave, my buddy Captain Craig De Wit uses the Apollo version of the 1st stage/pillar valve for his needled MCCR Drager Ray and Dolphin. He's the owner/operator of the Papua New Guinea liveaboard MV Golden Dawn, and so of course being out in the middle of nowhere, he services his own gear. I'm assuming he took apart one of them and O2 cleaned it, so it must be possible. He put them on 2 1ltr aly cylinders and stuffs the O2 in one side weight pocket of the Dolphin BC and the dil in the other side and uses the butt mount nitrox cylinder for BO. It's a very clever and compact rig for rec CCR diving and the cheapest rig I've seen, if one were to start with a used Drager. Not sure how he mounts the little cylinders on the Ray, haven't seen that rig yet. I'm sure if you email him he can give you details... -Andy
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8th June 2007, 07:37	#3 (permalink)
teksimple Enlightened Alpinist Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back in Hawaii Posts: 491	Re: Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? Thanks, very interesting. Here is more info if anyone else is interested... The lower weight of such an integrated system should reduce a unit's butt mass. The Razor weighs about the same as my Apeks DS4 alone, so would be good for the Sport KISS. When I have an extra $310 lying around, I might buy a pair of those. That and a bit of syntactic foam and my girlfriend may be styling with her Sport KISS. __________________ ---- _____________ "I don't know the percentage of the Internet that's valid, do you? Jesus, it's scary." - Hunter S. Thompson
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8th June 2007, 07:42	#4 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? Quote: (Originally Posted by teksimple) Thanks, very interesting. Here is more info if anyone else is interested... Thanks for finding the link, it is very interesting. Huhmmm, with this valve/reg and the composite tank, I could really reduce the travel weight for the next trip... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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8th June 2007, 09:22	#5 (permalink)
Dave1w Born Again Diver! Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Dolphin Ray Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore / UK Posts: 338	Re: Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? I am tempted, I am going over the SK bit by bit trying to get it more and more travel friendly. This could be a good un, especially with upright tanks and short hoses. Cheers Dave
(Online)

8th June 2007, 09:27	#6 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 445	Re: Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? Yes Leisurepro sells somthing like that: Scuba Accessories from LeisurePro.com This sort of thing could also be nice for those that need to save space and get cylinders to fit inside a shell w/o need for making extra holes for the valves (like on IDA-71s). My concern is loosing the ability to easily change the 1stage if something is not OK. Or how easy it is to reach those tiny valve knobs. Anyone knows if these can be had with M25 threads? __________________ My initials: JAAP
(Online)

8th June 2007, 14:02	#7 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 632	Re: Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? H2Odyssey EAS or EAS II; Leisurepro; Techdiving ltd (suit inflation system). Google Extra Air source. All the same or very similar. Cheaper than Zeagle. Get the one with the bigger red knob, not the small SS one (too difficult to turn on/off). In theory to be used with a needle valve only as flow will increase with depth if used with a Kiss valve, but some report using it with a SK with no problem. IP is adjusted by replacing parts, not just turn a screw. O2 compatibility really is unknown as far as material is concerned but if you clean it thouroughly it should be OK. Now these reg/valve/tank combinations are filled directly from a tank. Beware of adiabatic effects or better disassemble the filling piece and add a needle valve and a hose to it otherwise you left with just the source tank valve to control the filling flow. Best Philippe Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave1w) has anyone used one of the integrated pillar vale / first stage jobbies like the Zeagle Razor on a Rebreather. Cheers Dave
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8th June 2007, 14:24	#8 (permalink)
babar Curmudgeon Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Sport Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 420	Re: Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hi Dave, my buddy Captain Craig De Wit uses the Apollo version of the 1st stage/pillar valve for his needled MCCR Drager Ray and Dolphin. He's the owner/operator of the Papua New Guinea liveaboard MV Golden Dawn, and so of course being out in the middle of nowhere, he services his own gear. I'm assuming he took apart one of them and O2 cleaned it, so it must be possible. He put them on 2 1ltr aly cylinders and stuffs the O2 in one side weight pocket of the Dolphin BC and the dil in the other side and uses the butt mount nitrox cylinder for BO. It's a very clever and compact rig for rec CCR diving and the cheapest rig I've seen, if one were to start with a used Drager. Not sure how he mounts the little cylinders on the Ray, haven't seen that rig yet. I'm sure if you email him he can give you details... -Andy I met Craig onboard the nuatilus explorer. He had a great, super compact conversion made out of a ray, I believe. Did not see him have a single problem with it. Ask him about his shark-calling technique __________________ Babar Evolution Plus Sport kiss
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14th February 2008, 03:16	#9 (permalink)
Scott Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Dolphin Ray Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mendota, Virginia Posts: 159	Re: Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? Sorry to revive yet another old dead thread.. but... H2odyssey is coming out with a sealed integrated pillar valve/first stage... lightweight kiss anyone =) H2Odyssey...Air Systems I talked to scubatoys by phone week before last, and they said that they have had some on order for a little while but had not yet received them.. but something its I've been thinking about -Anyone else have thoughts on it? -Scott
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14th February 2008, 08:28	#10 (permalink)
dave t Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 651	Re: Integrated Pillar Valve / First Stage? Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott) Sorry to revive yet another old dead thread.. but... H2odyssey is coming out with a sealed integrated pillar valve/first stage... lightweight kiss anyone =) H2Odyssey...Air Systems I talked to scubatoys by phone week before last, and they said that they have had some on order for a little while but had not yet received them.. but something its I've been thinking about -Anyone else have thoughts on it? -Scott Looks like the one with the enviro seal could easily be converted to fixed IP Dave
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