Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out?

***Monkey*** · 20th February 2007, 02:02

I belive I can get 30 more hours of OC dive time in before my rebreather gets here... so I want to practice with a big bail out.... I see most people with AL bail out bottles

I own a few Steel Faber 45's... is it unrealalistic to use them to practice slining a bottle under my arm?

scubagrunt · 20th February 2007, 06:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith)

I belive I can get 30 more hours of OC dive time in before my rebreather gets here... so I want to practice with a big bail out.... I see most people with AL bail out bottles

I own a few Steel Faber 45's... is it unrealalistic to use them to practice slining a bottle under my arm?

steel will be heavy thats all. i personally would use al, but to pratice why not? you really should consider getting al 40 or so for the ccr. steel will likely pull you to the side the cylinder is on.
mel

solocavediver · 20th February 2007, 07:57

This topic is one of my little ideas.

Too much bailout is clumsy, too little will kill you.

Therefore if in doubt, carry too much. I seriously believe that too little bailout/diluent gas is the second most common cause of rebreather fatality after wrong PO2, based on incidents I have seen on the Net. (Of course I'm a cavediver and am accustomed to swimming around with 2+ large steel tanks in tow).

Just my 2c worth,

Cheers,

Charles.

Ivon · 20th February 2007, 08:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by solocavediver)

This topic is one of my little ideas.

Too much bailout is clumsy, too little will kill you.

Therefore if in doubt, carry too much. I seriously believe that too little bailout/diluent gas is the second most common cause of rebreather fatality after wrong PO2, based on incidents I have seen on the Net. (Of course I'm a cavediver and am accustomed to swimming around with 2+ large steel tanks in tow).

Just my 2c worth,

Cheers,

Charles.

Exactly, my question would not be is a steel 45 to big but if a steel 45 is to small? Unless you planning to dive less than 30m I would pick a 7ltr up.

scubagrunt · 20th February 2007, 09:43

i thought this thread was about what he can use while he practices for his ccr training. of course SAC rate and dive depth time deco obligation and general dive planning should be covered in class. i agree more is better, i am not one to go with the lets all carry 75% of what we need to get to the surface and that way as a team we can get 1.5 divers to the surface! sure maybe in crystal clear calm waters, not where i dive!:D

Ivon · 20th February 2007, 11:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by scubagrunt)

i thought this thread was about what he can use while he practices for his ccr training. of course SAC rate and dive depth time deco obligation and general dive planning should be covered in class. i agree more is better, i am not one to go with the lets all carry 75% of what we need to get to the surface and that way as a team we can get 1.5 divers to the surface! sure maybe in crystal clear calm waters, not where i dive!:D

Exactly, he says he wants to practice with a big stage, in my eyes a 45 is not a big stage at all, it's a small stage. If that is all you have then by all means practice with it. I wouldn't go out and buy another one untill you have talked to your instructor, he will give you a much better idea of how and why you need that size cylinder.

Mike · 20th February 2007, 11:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith)

I own a few Steel Faber 45's... is it unrealalistic to use them to practice slining a bottle under my arm?

Go one better - carry two of them as bilateral sidemounts. With the weight to your side, and even, you don't notice them any where near as much as if they are traditionally slung. And two 45s is enough bailout to get you up from 20min @60m type dives. (Depending on mix, prevailing wind and deco religious beliefs of course).

A single bailout bottle is really only useful to ~40m, unless you like doing lots and lots of deco. Or you have really trustworthy friends.

Mike

O.C.Diver · 20th February 2007, 12:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith)

I belive I can get 30 more hours of OC dive time in before my rebreather gets here... so I want to practice with a big bail out.... I see most people with AL bail out bottles

I own a few Steel Faber 45's... is it unrealalistic to use them to practice slining a bottle under my arm?

Steel 45's make lousy bailouts unless you require a weight belt and are planning on removing some of the weight.

Al 40 is a much better choice because of buoyancy. If you need more gas than this, carry two as side mounts. This is what my cave diving buddy and I do. Between the 2 of us, we are carrying 160 cuft of OC gas.

If you haven't seen this, here is a good article on sidemounts (stage Bottles ) with rebreathers.

http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com...rsidemount.pdf

Ted

lbihler · 20th February 2007, 12:40

IMHO to practice slining a 45cf Steel will do, at least you need to practice clipping off and on, you'll learn the rest during the course.
Buy tanks after the course when you will know how to plan your bailout and when you will know how your trim looks like on the rebreather, then you'll know if/what you need to buy.

Laurent

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 20th February 2007, 13:25

I think he is only trying to ask if the negative buoyancy of a steel versus an aluminum is enough of a difference to warrant ditching the steel tank and then buying an aluminum. This also applies if carrying two of each instead of just one.

I have only ever dove aluminums for deco/bailout. So, I can't say the final verdict.

20th February 2007, 02:02	#1 (permalink)
*Monkey* Head Dishwasher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lauderdale By The Sea Florida Posts: 1,277	Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? I belive I can get 30 more hours of OC dive time in before my rebreather gets here... so I want to practice with a big bail out.... I see most people with AL bail out bottles I own a few Steel Faber 45's... is it unrealalistic to use them to practice slining a bottle under my arm?
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20th February 2007, 06:05	#2 (permalink)
scubagrunt CCR Diva meg & rEvo inspo, optima, KISS, submatix Join Date: May 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 1,123	Re: Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith) I belive I can get 30 more hours of OC dive time in before my rebreather gets here... so I want to practice with a big bail out.... I see most people with AL bail out bottles I own a few Steel Faber 45's... is it unrealalistic to use them to practice slining a bottle under my arm? steel will be heavy thats all. i personally would use al, but to pratice why not? you really should consider getting al 40 or so for the ccr. steel will likely pull you to the side the cylinder is on. mel
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20th February 2007, 07:57	#3 (permalink)
solocavediver New Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Leeds UK Posts: 136	Re: Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? This topic is one of my little ideas. Too much bailout is clumsy, too little will kill you. Therefore if in doubt, carry too much. I seriously believe that too little bailout/diluent gas is the second most common cause of rebreather fatality after wrong PO2, based on incidents I have seen on the Net. (Of course I'm a cavediver and am accustomed to swimming around with 2+ large steel tanks in tow). Just my 2c worth, Cheers, Charles.
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20th February 2007, 08:19	#4 (permalink)
Ivon RBW Member Evolution Inspiration Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Essex Posts: 422	Re: Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? Quote: (Originally Posted by solocavediver) This topic is one of my little ideas. Too much bailout is clumsy, too little will kill you. Therefore if in doubt, carry too much. I seriously believe that too little bailout/diluent gas is the second most common cause of rebreather fatality after wrong PO2, based on incidents I have seen on the Net. (Of course I'm a cavediver and am accustomed to swimming around with 2+ large steel tanks in tow). Just my 2c worth, Cheers, Charles. Exactly, my question would not be is a steel 45 to big but if a steel 45 is to small? Unless you planning to dive less than 30m I would pick a 7ltr up.
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20th February 2007, 09:43	#5 (permalink)
scubagrunt CCR Diva meg & rEvo inspo, optima, KISS, submatix Join Date: May 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 1,123	Re: Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? i thought this thread was about what he can use while he practices for his ccr training. of course SAC rate and dive depth time deco obligation and general dive planning should be covered in class. i agree more is better, i am not one to go with the lets all carry 75% of what we need to get to the surface and that way as a team we can get 1.5 divers to the surface! sure maybe in crystal clear calm waters, not where i dive!:D
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20th February 2007, 11:02	#6 (permalink)
Ivon RBW Member Evolution Inspiration Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Essex Posts: 422	Re: Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? Quote: (Originally Posted by scubagrunt) i thought this thread was about what he can use while he practices for his ccr training. of course SAC rate and dive depth time deco obligation and general dive planning should be covered in class. i agree more is better, i am not one to go with the lets all carry 75% of what we need to get to the surface and that way as a team we can get 1.5 divers to the surface! sure maybe in crystal clear calm waters, not where i dive!:D Exactly, he says he wants to practice with a big stage, in my eyes a 45 is not a big stage at all, it's a small stage. If that is all you have then by all means practice with it. I wouldn't go out and buy another one untill you have talked to your instructor, he will give you a much better idea of how and why you need that size cylinder.
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20th February 2007, 11:26	#7 (permalink)
Mike Prism 'prentice Prism Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 432	Re: Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith) I own a few Steel Faber 45's... is it unrealalistic to use them to practice slining a bottle under my arm? Go one better - carry two of them as bilateral sidemounts. With the weight to your side, and even, you don't notice them any where near as much as if they are traditionally slung. And two 45s is enough bailout to get you up from 20min @60m type dives. (Depending on mix, prevailing wind and deco religious beliefs of course). A single bailout bottle is really only useful to ~40m, unless you like doing lots and lots of deco. Or you have really trustworthy friends. Mike
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20th February 2007, 12:12	#8 (permalink)
O.C.Diver Helium Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 362	Re: Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith) I belive I can get 30 more hours of OC dive time in before my rebreather gets here... so I want to practice with a big bail out.... I see most people with AL bail out bottles I own a few Steel Faber 45's... is it unrealalistic to use them to practice slining a bottle under my arm? Steel 45's make lousy bailouts unless you require a weight belt and are planning on removing some of the weight. Al 40 is a much better choice because of buoyancy. If you need more gas than this, carry two as side mounts. This is what my cave diving buddy and I do. Between the 2 of us, we are carrying 160 cuft of OC gas. If you haven't seen this, here is a good article on sidemounts (stage Bottles ) with rebreathers. http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com...rsidemount.pdf Ted
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20th February 2007, 12:40	#9 (permalink)
lbihler New Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangkok Posts: 56	Re: Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? IMHO to practice slining a 45cf Steel will do, at least you need to practice clipping off and on, you'll learn the rest during the course. Buy tanks after the course when you will know how to plan your bailout and when you will know how your trim looks like on the rebreather, then you'll know if/what you need to buy. Laurent
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20th February 2007, 13:25	#10 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,790	Re: Is Steel 45 to big for recreational Bail out? I think he is only trying to ask if the negative buoyancy of a steel versus an aluminum is enough of a difference to warrant ditching the steel tank and then buying an aluminum. This also applies if carrying two of each instead of just one. I have only ever dove aluminums for deco/bailout. So, I can't say the final verdict. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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