Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles

dive2dive2000 · 18th December 2006, 23:08

Sidemount pics for a stock PRISM plate

[IMG]file:///D:/Prism%201.jpg[/IMG]

Chris · 19th December 2006, 04:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jeffrey C Gershen)

Still waiting for my rig. When I started my hair was brown and my underwear was white not it's the opposite.

Can't wait to be able to talk like you guys!

Hi Jeff
How long have you been waiting on your unit, I vaugly remeber you posting like over 6 months ago that you had one on order.

Cheers
Chris

BillGraham · 19th December 2006, 12:35

The only issue I see with extending the stock plate is that I am always leg heavy, I wouldn't want to add weight over my butt. I'd think about making it out of something lighter. Using sidemount style rigging for the bailout bottles removes the whole issue of having stuff attached to the counterlungs. It's easy to see the gauges and they are simple to put on and take off.

zzzzzzzz · 19th December 2006, 17:51

Another method for attaching sidemount tanks simply uses the waist harness rings. These rings serve the same purpose as the butt plate.

One still needs the bungies to sling around the valves.

This configuration has been tested on twins using a regular backplate and harness, as well as on a rebreather.

This option works well, with good trim. It also minimizes the extra stuff.

dive2dive2000 · 19th December 2006, 21:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by BillGraham)

The only issue I see with extending the stock plate is that I am always leg heavy, I wouldn't want to add weight over my butt. I'd think about making it out of something lighter. Using sidemount style rigging for the bailout bottles removes the whole issue of having stuff attached to the counterlungs. It's easy to see the gauges and they are simple to put on and take off.

Hi Bill,

That extension is a piece of Aluminum, no weight at all. Just crude looking

dive2dive2000 · 19th December 2006, 21:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz)

Another method for attaching sidemount tanks simply uses the waist harness rings. These rings serve the same purpose as the butt plate.

One still needs the bungies to sling around the valves.

This configuration has been tested on twins using a regular backplate and harness, as well as on a rebreather.

This option works well, with good trim. It also minimizes the extra stuff.

I disagree, the tanks don't seem to lay right, much easier to adjust trim when clipped under your center of gravity IMHO.

zzzzzzzz · 19th December 2006, 21:42

With regard to the tanks laying correctly or not...

The dude inquiring stated something about the CG of the stages being too low with the butt plate. In your response, you do agree that attaching to the waist rings moves them closer to the body CG. It seems we all agree!

On another note, having the tank lay correctly requires several elements to be balanced, including the fixed attachment point on the stage, how much moment you want on that pivot based on balance, as well as the attachment point at the waist/butt, and finally the position of the bungee and how much tension exists on the bungee. Having all these degrees of freedom means that they can be made to fly correctly in any number of ways. That is, after all, why sidemounting stages is getting so popular. The other excellent point you make is that it is so easy to move the CGs relative to one another, this will help the inquiring chap.

In the configuration suggested, it was my experience that the fixed pivot on the stage can be made virtually neutral, which eases handling the stage from the clip/biner when not hooked up and for doffing and donning. Further, it facilitates using the waist rings, making reach simpler, as well as minimizing stuff. Other benefits is that it fits all the existing gear, including the twins, or a single tank setup. When the bungies are undone, the tanks sit in the same spot, the valves don't hit the dirt.

The other thing is my homebuilt is neutral from a trim perspective, no weights needed to offset CL centroid issues, just like a set of twins (minus the turtle-ing).

dive2dive2000 · 20th December 2006, 01:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz)

With regard to the tanks laying correctly or not...

The dude inquiring stated something about the CG of the stages being too low with the butt plate. In your response, you do agree that attaching to the waist rings moves them closer to the body CG. It seems we all agree!

On another note, having the tank lay correctly requires several elements to be balanced, including the fixed attachment point on the stage, how much moment you want on that pivot based on balance, as well as the attachment point at the waist/butt, and finally the position of the bungee and how much tension exists on the bungee. Having all these degrees of freedom means that they can be made to fly correctly in any number of ways. That is, after all, why sidemounting stages is getting so popular. The other excellent point you make is that it is so easy to move the CGs relative to one another, this will help the inquiring chap.

In the configuration suggested, it was my experience that the fixed pivot on the stage can be made virtually neutral, which eases handling the stage from the clip/biner when not hooked up and for doffing and donning. Further, it facilitates using the waist rings, making reach simpler, as well as minimizing stuff. Other benefits is that it fits all the existing gear, including the twins, or a single tank setup. When the bungies are undone, the tanks sit in the same spot, the valves don't hit the dirt.

The other thing is my home built is neutral from a trim perspective, no weights needed to offset CL centroid issues, just like a set of twins (minus the turtle-ing).

There are always exceptions to the norm, but IMHO with the valves hanging under your armpits a d-ring on your waist is just to high. Especially if slinging an 80 or larger tank. As far as reach is concerned I don't see a difference between my waist and my butt, same amount of effort. Most side mount rigs place the hookup lower than the waist because it is easier to adjust for trim (again there are exceptions to the norm)

silent running · 23rd December 2006, 01:56

Thanks a lot for putting up the pix of your setup Marty. Now I see. But I was hoping that I wouldn't need to have the mount point so low as I don't dive in cold water and wouldn't need the extra plate/space for drysuit bottle. I'm sure that you're right when you say that the pivot should be lower to keep the BO tank band in the middle of the cyl, which would seem to make it more stable. But I see that Mike and others have used the waist as a mount point and seem to think it works fine. To make matters more cloudy, the Golem kit is made of something which is not rigid like your extender plate and people seem to like it.

So my ? is: Does the main attachment point for the cyl really need to be in the center of it? Couldn't it be a little closer to the top and still keep it reasonably close to the same plane as the diver's body?

19th December 2006, 04:27	#32 (permalink)
Chris Go Nude Or Go Home Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 609	Re: Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by Jeffrey C Gershen) Still waiting for my rig. When I started my hair was brown and my underwear was white not it's the opposite. Can't wait to be able to talk like you guys! Hi Jeff How long have you been waiting on your unit, I vaugly remeber you posting like over 6 months ago that you had one on order. Cheers Chris __________________ Megalodon Sorb and Sensors whilst in Australia www.divetub.com.au Diving & Photography @ www.uwphotog.com
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19th December 2006, 12:35	#33 (permalink)
BillGraham New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 34	Re: Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles The only issue I see with extending the stock plate is that I am always leg heavy, I wouldn't want to add weight over my butt. I'd think about making it out of something lighter. Using sidemount style rigging for the bailout bottles removes the whole issue of having stuff attached to the counterlungs. It's easy to see the gauges and they are simple to put on and take off.
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19th December 2006, 17:51	#34 (permalink)
zzzzzzzz Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 100	Re: Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles Another method for attaching sidemount tanks simply uses the waist harness rings. These rings serve the same purpose as the butt plate. One still needs the bungies to sling around the valves. This configuration has been tested on twins using a regular backplate and harness, as well as on a rebreather. This option works well, with good trim. It also minimizes the extra stuff.
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19th December 2006, 21:17	#35 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by BillGraham) The only issue I see with extending the stock plate is that I am always leg heavy, I wouldn't want to add weight over my butt. I'd think about making it out of something lighter. Using sidemount style rigging for the bailout bottles removes the whole issue of having stuff attached to the counterlungs. It's easy to see the gauges and they are simple to put on and take off. Hi Bill, That extension is a piece of Aluminum, no weight at all. Just crude looking __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
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19th December 2006, 21:22	#36 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz) Another method for attaching sidemount tanks simply uses the waist harness rings. These rings serve the same purpose as the butt plate. One still needs the bungies to sling around the valves. This configuration has been tested on twins using a regular backplate and harness, as well as on a rebreather. This option works well, with good trim. It also minimizes the extra stuff. I disagree, the tanks don't seem to lay right, much easier to adjust trim when clipped under your center of gravity IMHO. __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
(Offline)

19th December 2006, 21:42	#37 (permalink)
zzzzzzzz Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 100	Re: Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles With regard to the tanks laying correctly or not... The dude inquiring stated something about the CG of the stages being too low with the butt plate. In your response, you do agree that attaching to the waist rings moves them closer to the body CG. It seems we all agree! On another note, having the tank lay correctly requires several elements to be balanced, including the fixed attachment point on the stage, how much moment you want on that pivot based on balance, as well as the attachment point at the waist/butt, and finally the position of the bungee and how much tension exists on the bungee. Having all these degrees of freedom means that they can be made to fly correctly in any number of ways. That is, after all, why sidemounting stages is getting so popular. The other excellent point you make is that it is so easy to move the CGs relative to one another, this will help the inquiring chap. In the configuration suggested, it was my experience that the fixed pivot on the stage can be made virtually neutral, which eases handling the stage from the clip/biner when not hooked up and for doffing and donning. Further, it facilitates using the waist rings, making reach simpler, as well as minimizing stuff. Other benefits is that it fits all the existing gear, including the twins, or a single tank setup. When the bungies are undone, the tanks sit in the same spot, the valves don't hit the dirt. The other thing is my homebuilt is neutral from a trim perspective, no weights needed to offset CL centroid issues, just like a set of twins (minus the turtle-ing).
(Offline)

20th December 2006, 01:02	#38 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz) With regard to the tanks laying correctly or not... The dude inquiring stated something about the CG of the stages being too low with the butt plate. In your response, you do agree that attaching to the waist rings moves them closer to the body CG. It seems we all agree! On another note, having the tank lay correctly requires several elements to be balanced, including the fixed attachment point on the stage, how much moment you want on that pivot based on balance, as well as the attachment point at the waist/butt, and finally the position of the bungee and how much tension exists on the bungee. Having all these degrees of freedom means that they can be made to fly correctly in any number of ways. That is, after all, why sidemounting stages is getting so popular. The other excellent point you make is that it is so easy to move the CGs relative to one another, this will help the inquiring chap. In the configuration suggested, it was my experience that the fixed pivot on the stage can be made virtually neutral, which eases handling the stage from the clip/biner when not hooked up and for doffing and donning. Further, it facilitates using the waist rings, making reach simpler, as well as minimizing stuff. Other benefits is that it fits all the existing gear, including the twins, or a single tank setup. When the bungies are undone, the tanks sit in the same spot, the valves don't hit the dirt. The other thing is my home built is neutral from a trim perspective, no weights needed to offset CL centroid issues, just like a set of twins (minus the turtle-ing). There are always exceptions to the norm, but IMHO with the valves hanging under your armpits a d-ring on your waist is just to high. Especially if slinging an 80 or larger tank. As far as reach is concerned I don't see a difference between my waist and my butt, same amount of effort. Most side mount rigs place the hookup lower than the waist because it is easier to adjust for trim (again there are exceptions to the norm) __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
(Offline)

23rd December 2006, 01:56	#39 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,832	Re: Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles Thanks a lot for putting up the pix of your setup Marty. Now I see. But I was hoping that I wouldn't need to have the mount point so low as I don't dive in cold water and wouldn't need the extra plate/space for drysuit bottle. I'm sure that you're right when you say that the pivot should be lower to keep the BO tank band in the middle of the cyl, which would seem to make it more stable. But I see that Mike and others have used the waist as a mount point and seem to think it works fine. To make matters more cloudy, the Golem kit is made of something which is not rigid like your extender plate and people seem to like it. So my ? is: Does the main attachment point for the cyl really need to be in the center of it? Couldn't it be a little closer to the top and still keep it reasonably close to the same plane as the diver's body?
(Offline)

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