Need ideas for attaching bailout bottles

silent running

Hello all, after diving a stock Prism and an after-market BP/harness, which was heavier and uh, different, I've thought a lot about how to rig an OTS CL unit for deep diving/BO.

My very preliminary conclusion is that a side mount system is the way to go. Nobody has a bad word to say about it and oddly enough, it looks like with the butt mount/single midway main BO bottle band/clip, the valve bungees could be easily rigged off the small D-rings on the bottom of the CLs. No major mod to the harness needed and you could ditch the cumberbun.

Has anybody has done this?

My goal is to avoid having 4 upper staps-2 for CLs and 2 for shoulders-and use the fastex clips for the main structural element. The stock Prism uses the CL as part of the harness via fastex clip on the bottom of the CL which attaches to the waistband-2 vs.4. The stock harness is very convenient for don/doff as while the unit is strapped into the boat rack one can slip into it from beneath the CLs and fasten the clips after. No chicken dance or loop/DSV flip up required, and much easier to extricate yourself from underwater.

Despite the fact that the stock Prism harness is very comfortable, it does have it's drawbacks. Slinging even a 30cuft off the waist D-ring and small lung bottom D-rings is awkward and I found it continually, uncomfortably bumping into my thighs, not cool when you have to work hard/fin against the flow.

I'd be most happy with the stock plastic plate sandwiched with a web harness and a flat-no extra bend/u-channel OC plate-aly BP, with a butt-mount plate and the valves held in place by bungees off the bottom of the CLs. With the CLs doubling for shoulder straps and a single, wide crotch strap and no cumberbun I'd be done. And I'd still be able to use the sturdy, hard, stock fiberglass cover.

I wonder though if that waist clip isn't low enough as is to rig a stock unit for the main weight baring part of the side mount, have to try... -Andy

Mike

Hi Andy - the waist clip is low enough, only one of the guys here has used the buttmount plate, the rest just mount off the waist strap.

Here's how it works;
Remove the waist band of the stock harness
Take three strips of metal and bolt them across the exisiting bolts on the harness like this;
<pic 1>

Drill an additional hole in your backplate and attach it like this;
<Pic 2>

Play with a standard harness to see if you like it, then throw it away and just use a waist strap. (I use a secondary attachment to the 1" clips on the counterlungs, but it's probably not required) Use the normal counterlungs and attachment Y piece for shoulder straps.
<Pic 4>


Buy a pair of undercounterlung D-rings. Work out that they dig in and then move them to your waist strap, Dring down, and around to the back of the waist strap.
<Pic 3>
Use whatever (even the stock straps) to provide an attachment point between the counterlungs and the waist strap. I also attach the crotch strap to the bottom of the same attachment, so I can tighten the whole lot down. In the Pic I have the waist strap connected to the shoulder attachment, in reality the counterlung goes in the middle
<Pic 4>

Thread some bungie through the backplate.

Attach the bottom clip about halfway up your cylinders - I use shortened standard stage rigging, just for versitility, and leave the top dog clip in place in case I want to nose clip a tank off to stage it etc. Keep the tail of teh rigging quite short to keep the tanks in nice and close to your body. I've used the same setup on Al 40s, 80s and steel 100s - you notice some weight with the 100s but they don't hang down.

Mike
(How does this picture attachment bit work?)

Edit - BTW - the wing is a diverite Rec wing - fits like a glove...

Attached Images

	Backplate bracket.jpg (119.7 KB, 229 views)
	backplate attached.JPG (160.6 KB, 225 views)
	Waist Dring.JPG (216.4 KB, 230 views)
	backplace and harness.jpg (240.0 KB, 229 views)

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silent running

Mike, thanks a lot for the details and pictures. Took me a while to figure out exactly how it all works.

Questions:
1) How is it doing a back roll off the boat with side mounts? Do the low hanging cyls get caught on the gunwhales?

2)I'm not completely clear on where you're fastening the upper bungee. Are you using the little D-ring on the bottom of the CL, or are they the ones I see attached to the sides of the BP?

3)And I'm still wondering why, if the d-rings on the web shoulder straps aren't supporting any weight, you couldn't just use the stock fastex clip and the loop it attaches to and thread the new waist web belt through it? That's how I have it on my current tech harness, but because my training was done with BO slung off the shoulder harness, I had both the stock CL straps to hold down the CL and the additional shoulder harness, which was a drag to get in and out of. Give that the weight of the BO cyls is now hanging off the waist, I'd be most happy with a harness that made use of the stock Prism CL fastex/weight baring system, as it's most easy to don and doff.

Thanks again for the info and I hope I explained what I'm looking for well enough... -Andy

silent running

Oh, I just realized, I have an older Prism harness, with the fastex buckles only on the lower part of the lung, to attach to the waist. The upper part of my CLs have only the big velcro tabs, pre USN requirement. Sorry if it was confusing... -Andy

caveseeker7

Andy, the DSS yoke comes only with the velcro IIRC.
Check with Tobin, but I think he'll make you one.

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Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"

dive2dive2000

Hi Andy,
Instead of bungees we sandwiched a bicycle inner tube between the wing and the flat piece of material that the ears are a part of. You can use your stock prism plate, just add a butt plate. The tube will hang just under your shoulder and it will grab the handle of the tank valve, a dog clip towards the bottom of tank will clip behind you under your waist top of ass is a more ideal level. The clip should have 4-5 inches of rope (cave-line)instead of attaching clip directly to tank this allows the tank to trim out behind you and gives you enough room to get your arm between the tank and your body. With this setup there is absolutely no stress on your CL and the tanks will trim under your arm pit and down your leg.

Yes they will hang up on gunwales and yes you can do a back roll with no problem, I have clips on the necks of my stages that I clip to my CL D ring just for walking up ladders or on land, once in water just unclasp and go it is also good in case you have to pass your stage bottle to a diver who is not rigged for side mount sling hope this helps I am gonna try and give you a call

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Safe Diving,
Martin

"but what's the fun of getting what you need, instead of what you want?"

Mike

I tried just explaining it, then decided it was too complex so took the camera out to the shed. This setup makes sense to me, but that probably says as much about me as it does the configuration...
I've only ever rolled off with one 40cuft - which has worked no problems on both hardboats and Ribs. If you lay the butt of the tank in the right place it seems to work OK. I normally dive off boats where you can waddle off the back though.
Tanks can get caught under a rail on the side of the boat when butt backwards - you need to move forwards and up to stand up.

The upper bungie is the loop that is threaded through the back plate. Having once piece of bungy that goes all the way behind the back plate lets you have more slack to stretch the loop over the tank neck when you clip one on at a time. I clip the bungy loop into the 1" counterlung attachment so I can reach it with the unit on (not shown in photos)
I don't use the little dring for anything
You can.
I just like having the plate so the counterlung attachment doesn't move around. The loops with the buckle would work completely OK - just like they do stock.

That's how it works for me. I wanted to keep the ability to detatch the bottom of the counterlungs completely and have no other shoulder straps. This lets me duck under the counterlungs and loop in one go, then clip stuff up.
Having the additional shoulder harness annoyed the crap out of me, made it a lot tougher to get in and out of.

Mike

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silent running

Thanks Stefan, I will probably have to try that as my original velcro harness tabs were sacrificed in the tech conversion... -Andy

silent running

Marty, Mike, thanks for all the extra detailed info, which results in simple solutions. It seems great minds think the same.

Now I get it, neither of you aspire to be Houdini, or believe that Fastex clips are for lazy people and think your CCR should be a straight jacket. How very un-DIR of you... -Andy

Jeffrey C Gershen

Still waiting for my rig. When I started my hair was brown and my underwear was white not it's the opposite. Can't wait to be able to talk like you guys!