Shearwater on the PRISM

decoweenie · 31st March 2006, 16:13

Chris,

I spoke to a friend last night. He is nearly completed a 3-sensor digital display housing for the batch of MK-15 sold via eBay last year.

He will face some issues locating enough Bendix connectors for the MK-15, but I don't think your Prism uses any. And I would guess the sensor output for your analogue secondary is similar to the MK-15.

This means that you might have what you need soon enough.

Once his project is complete and tested, I will pass his contact information on to you. I am guessing about minimum a month away, but could be more depending on component deliveries.

In the meantime, don't ask who it is...

***caveseeker7*** · 31st March 2006, 16:20

The problem is that between manufacturer and the customer is the delivery.

When the unit leaves the factory working properly and the customer at one point after delivery realizes there is damage to the unit (and I don't when Chris realized the secondary was .2 ata off, the instructor should have noticed it at beginning of class during the first pre-dive) why do you expect the manufacturer to cover that under warranty?

That's like returning to your car's manufacturer weeks after delivery complaininng about a dent in the door. Sure it can happen, and the transport company should be liable for that damage, but the dealer shouldn't have let the customer drive it off the lot without notifying the manufacturer or filing the claim. Or the damage occured after the driver drove off the lot. Same here, the secondary could have been damaged during transport, the training, afterwards. You don't that, do you, mverick?

As far as I know UPS has been a return customer for SMI, "buying" three PRISMs. I've seen one Pelican 1620 that cracked pretty good ....

... or buckets of sorb where the forks of the lift knocked holes into buckets. It does happen, you know, but unless it's obvious when you receive the item compensation is a pita to get from them. No matter if damage to Chris' secondary happened before or after he received it, it was beyond the control of the manufacturer.

The problem with the software on the units on the other hand did happen during the manufacturing process, SMI recalled all entire batch. Even those who didn't show any signs of the problem. The units were tested, the problem traced and found. All units had their PROMs reflashed and were tested before they returned to the customers. As the problem had never occured before that took a while (but less than other software fixes) and a yet another check has been added to the QC list so it won't happen again.

That is what you can and should expect from a manufacturer. But to call them "a joke of a company" and expect them to fix damage done by someone else is dumb at best. I won't get into the worst because it'll violate TOS.

Drmike · 31st March 2006, 16:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000)

As peter explained and as I understood the danger comes were if there is a small amount of water ingress your digital display will still function, but give a false read out. So if your electronics freeze, or crap out you are know depending on a digital display with know way to confirm (except dill flush and...). With the PRISM's true anolog display you have a visual meter that will inform you of water or electricall ingress,

Hang on a moment - this is just not true.

I have had small amout of water ingress into prism secondary and it manifested itself in a very nasty manner (slowly increasing ppo2 display) if I had been running manually........

I have used the analog secondary (old style prism) on my MK15.5 for a while until it crapped out (water ingress) then I switched to a MK15 analog secondary...after going through 3, yes 3 displays in a year I finally swapped to a digital MK16 one and BOY am I happy now!

The ONLY advantage of an analog over a digital is it uses no batterys

Big deal! Its no big deal to make sure the battery is good.

The disadvantage of the anaolog secondarys are they are hard to read, they fail if you drop them, and they can STICK!!!

I would take a digital over an analog any day - its just more reliable...in my experience.

Chris - one option could be to get hold of a MK16 digital secondary and join it to your Prism secondary cable in a DIY junction box

Or

You could get Colin Wilcox to sell you one of his new digital MK15.5 secodarys which IIRC uses the same lumberg cable as your PRISM. He may be able to help ensure the pins match.

sorry just seen this thread - havent read it all yet sorry if im repeating whats been discussed before

***caveseeker7*** · 31st March 2006, 17:32

I understand worries about the damage that can easily be done to the analog gauge, hence I'm with Andy P. that it would be nice to have robust digital backup to take along. Wether using it on every dive or as a backup is obviously personal preference (or dictated by the operational condition of the original

). But water damage isn't a worry I have. The secondary is completely potted, settings chosen with a reed switch (magnet).

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I have had small amout of water ingress into prism secondary

Where was the water ingress?

The secondary I photographed on your rig had the needle gauge used on early PRISMs, but the PRISM has the secondary cal pod (including the sealed lid) in the sealed battery compartment, not on the gauge. So if that was the path for damage/malfunction it's quite different from the PRISM's setup.

Drmike · 31st March 2006, 17:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

So if that was the path for damage/malfunction it's quite different from the PRISM's setup.

It wasnt.

Dont know where the water was ingressing - I know it wasnt into the cal area, maybe the cable.

My only point is just the fact its analog does nothing at all to safeguard against faulty readings thru water ingress. If water gets in thru the cable or a crack or elsewhere (as it did in mine) - both can fail. Yes potted is less likely to get ingress - but if it does it can still screw up just like a digital

As I previously highlighted the bit I disagree with is ;

Quote:

With the PRISM's true anolog display you have a visual meter that will inform you of water or electricall ingress,

This suggests an anolog is safer than a digital beacuse it will some how inform you of a fault...my experience does not support this theory

mverick · 31st March 2006, 17:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

The problem is that between manufacturer and the customer is the delivery.

When the unit leaves the factory working properly and the customer at one point after delivery realizes there is damage to the unit (and I don't when Chris realized the secondary was .2 ata off, the instructor should have noticed it at beginning of class during the first pre-dive) why do you expect the manufacturer to cover that under warranty?

That's like returning to your car's manufacturer weeks after delivery complaininng about a dent in the door. Sure it can happen, and the transport company should be liable for that damage, but the dealer shouldn't have let the customer drive it off the lot without notifying the manufacturer or filing the claim. Or the damage occured after the driver drove off the lot. Same here, the secondary could have been damaged during transport, the training, afterwards. You don't that, do you, mverick?

As far as I know UPS has been a return customer for SMI, "buying" three PRISMs. I've seen one Pelican 1620 that cracked pretty good ....

... or buckets of sorb where the forks of the lift knocked holes into buckets. It does happen, you know, but unless it's obvious when you receive the item compensation is a pita to get from them. No matter if damage to Chris' secondary happened before or after he received it, it was beyond the control of the manufacturer.

The problem with the software on the units on the other hand did happen during the manufacturing process, SMI recalled all entire batch. Even those who didn't show any signs of the problem. The units were tested, the problem traced and found. All units had their PROMs reflashed and were tested before they returned to the customers. As the problem had never occured before that took a while (but less than other software fixes) and a yet another check has been added to the QC list so it won't happen again.

That is what you can and should expect from a manufacturer. But to call them "a joke of a company" and expect them to fix damage done by someone else is dumb at best. I won't get into the worst because it'll violate TOS.

Agreed, about the problem COULD be between the manufacturer and Owner in Delivery. Who covers this? The Manufacturer. Why? Cause they are the ones who packed it for shipping. Why would I cover it if I don't pack it?

Reason I expect the manufacturer to cover it is. It isn't the only problem they've had with one. And it has a WARRANTY on Parts. For a Year. If it's in the warranty period. They should cover it. Now, if he ran it over with a truck. No, but now that's kinda on the edge cause everyone is showing there units getting run over. Why? I don't know. HE explorer getting run over by a truck is stupid. I just want it water tight. They had problems with that. Don't think they had problems with trucks running over them.

If the Secondaries are having problems. Cover them in Neoprene thick enough to take a minor fall. Didn't analog gauges have Locks to keep the needle from bouncing during a fall? I remember an old meter of mine had a lock for just that reason.

And having a dent in the car. And a analog going bad. Isn't even in the same ball park. If you drove your car for a month. Hit a couple pot holes but no real damage. And your gauges in the car go out. Do you think the warranty you paid for should cover it? I do.

It should be able to take the abuse it's going to see in the enviroment it's designed to be used in.

Did they not design it to be dove off a boat???? Or did they design it to be only pool dove. And lowered into the water to be pulled out of a pelican case and put in the water there? If so, please state that in there advertising.

Part of the price for the unit is for the warranty. That's why if you want a extended warranty on a car it cost more.

Hell, if they just wrapped a beer coolie around it and zip tied it. I bet all this would go away. Nice if they put a magnetic lock on the analog gauge. So it won't bounce on shipment. Pull the magnet to dive.

But do you really think that the secondary is just perfect? It's had these same problems since it came out. They need to do something don't they?

And, you didn't get why I called them a JOKE. They diagnosed the problem as he had damaged it from a hit and knocked the counterweight off the gauge. THEY WERE WRONG. It started working again. They can't diagnose the problems with there own gauge.

Chris

Glad you like the unit. Hope you get your electronic secondary. Prism has one of the best scrubbers out there. And, pretty much the only problem I hear is with the Secondary. Other problems were with the bucket. And with the Changable adjustable pots. If you're hamfisted. You'll screw em up. Those are in the head and well guarded. Take time and no problems. If you're rough with adjustments. You'll want extra's.

dive2dive2000 · 31st March 2006, 23:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Hang on a moment - this is just not true.

I have had small amout of water ingress into prism secondary and it manifested itself in a very nasty manner (slowly increasing ppo2 display) if I had been running manually........

If you were scrolling between sensors you would have seen the needle sticking and therefore know you have some sort of enduction.

Quote:

I have used the analog secondary (old style prism) on my MK15.5 for a while until it crapped out (water ingress) then I switched to a MK15 analog secondary...after going through 3, yes 3 displays in a year I finally swapped to a digital MK16 one and BOY am I happy now!

Not sure how you did that, diffrent wiring and diffrent mlv out put?

Quote:

The ONLY advantage of an analog over a digital is it uses no batterys

Big deal! Its no big deal to make sure the battery is good.

I used to think that too untill speaking with Peter.

Quote:

The disadvantage of the anaolog secondarys are they are hard to read, they fail if you drop them, and they can STICK!!!

I totaly agree, but feel the pros out way the cons

Quote:

I would take a digital over an analog any day - its just more reliable...in my experience.

I am knew with very little experience, and even less knoweldge(just look at my spelling

) the most disheartning thing about CCR diving is that so many very intelegent and experienced divers have such diffrent facts and information. So what I have deceided to do is still question but basicly listen to only one person otherwise you will lose your mind

I bought the PRISM because of its electronic and scrubber design, is it perfect NO, but I am comfortable with its design and Peters advice.

Quote:

Chris - one option could be to get hold of a MK16 digital secondary and join it to your Prism secondary cable in a DIY junction box

With so much diffrent advice I would call Peter direct and get his answer and then make a discesion.

Quote:

Or

You could get Colin Wilcox to sell you one of his new digital MK15.5 secodarys which IIRC uses the same lumberg cable as your PRISM. He may be able to help ensure the pins match.

Does he have a web site or an email? Could you pm me if it is not public info?

Chris · 1st April 2006, 02:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000)

If you were scrolling between sensors you would have seen the needle sticking and therefore know you have some sort of enduction.

Not sure how you did that, diffrent wiring and diffrent mlv out put?

I used to think that too untill speaking with Peter.

I totaly agree, but feel the pros out way the cons

I am knew with very little experience, and even less knoweldge(just look at my spelling

) the most disheartning thing about CCR diving is that so many very intelegent and experienced divers have such diffrent facts and information. So what I have deceided to do is still question but basicly listen to only one person otherwise you will lose your mind

I bought the PRISM because of its electronic and scrubber design, is it perfect NO, but I am comfortable with its design and Peters advice.

With so much diffrent advice I would call Peter direct and get his answer and then make a discesion.

Does he have a web site or an email? Could you pm me if it is not public info?

Hi Martin
Look no offence but you sound like my PRISM instructor, another Brain Washed CCR Diver out of the SMI Factory.

There is way more knowledge out there than Peter, sure he knows his stuff well and I jave spoken to him on a number of occsaion both phone and Email on issues I have with my PRISM. He is well aware of my issues around the secondary and what I believe be be an Agricultural build quality.

Dr Mike thanks for your suggestions I have been talking at length with ColKan and Jason McHatton on the Digital secondaries they are using on the Mk15.5 I think.... And the new Eagle I think this will be the way I am going to go when they are completed.

Cheers
Chris

***caveseeker7*** · 1st April 2006, 02:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris)

I have been talking at length with ColKan and Jason McHatton on the Digital secondaries they are not using on the Mk15.5

What are they using on the 155?

Drmike · 1st April 2006, 02:50

Quote:

If you were scrolling between sensors you would have seen the needle sticking and therefore know you have some sort of enduction.

Nope. You can have a fault that manifests itself by rasing the needle higher at all cell positions than the actuall ppo2 is - scrolling does not show this up.

Quote:

Not sure how you did that, diffrent wiring and diffrent mlv out put?

Original potted SMI secondary and SMI cells

Quote:

The ONLY advantage of an analog over a digital is it uses no batterys

Big deal! Its no big deal to make sure the battery is good.

Quote:

I used to think that too untill speaking with Peter.

I used to think that untill I actually used, travelled and abused analog secondaries for a reasonble period of time.

Quote:

The disadvantage of the anaolog secondarys are they are hard to read, they fail if you drop them, and they can STICK!!!

Quote:

I totaly agree, but feel the pros out way the cons

What Pros? No battery? Big deal!

Quote:

I would take a digital over an analog any day - its just more reliable...in my experience.

Quote:

I am knew with very little experience, and even less knoweldge(just look at my spelling

) the most disheartning thing about CCR diving is that so many very intelegent and experienced divers have such diffrent facts and information. So what I have deceided to do is still question but basicly listen to only one person otherwise you will lose your mind

I bought the PRISM because of its electronic and scrubber design, is it perfect NO, but I am comfortable with its design and Peters advice.

I am sure you will enjoy your Prism. You are quite right there are often a lot of differing opinions - but you have to look at who is advising. I try to remain completely unbias and neutral in any advice I give. I have no affiliations with any manufacturer. I tell it as I experience it as an end user.

My advise is listen to all and try to see a common theme - speak to end users.

31st March 2006, 16:13	#41 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Shearwater on the PRISM Chris, I spoke to a friend last night. He is nearly completed a 3-sensor digital display housing for the batch of MK-15 sold via eBay last year. He will face some issues locating enough Bendix connectors for the MK-15, but I don't think your Prism uses any. And I would guess the sensor output for your analogue secondary is similar to the MK-15. This means that you might have what you need soon enough. Once his project is complete and tested, I will pass his contact information on to you. I am guessing about minimum a month away, but could be more depending on component deliveries. In the meantime, don't ask who it is...
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31st March 2006, 16:20	#42 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,456	The problem is that between manufacturer and the customer is the delivery. When the unit leaves the factory working properly and the customer at one point after delivery realizes there is damage to the unit (and I don't when Chris realized the secondary was .2 ata off, the instructor should have noticed it at beginning of class during the first pre-dive) why do you expect the manufacturer to cover that under warranty? That's like returning to your car's manufacturer weeks after delivery complaininng about a dent in the door. Sure it can happen, and the transport company should be liable for that damage, but the dealer shouldn't have let the customer drive it off the lot without notifying the manufacturer or filing the claim. Or the damage occured after the driver drove off the lot. Same here, the secondary could have been damaged during transport, the training, afterwards. You don't that, do you, mverick? As far as I know UPS has been a return customer for SMI, "buying" three PRISMs. I've seen one Pelican 1620 that cracked pretty good .... ... or buckets of sorb where the forks of the lift knocked holes into buckets. It does happen, you know, but unless it's obvious when you receive the item compensation is a pita to get from them. No matter if damage to Chris' secondary happened before or after he received it, it was beyond the control of the manufacturer. The problem with the software on the units on the other hand did happen during the manufacturing process, SMI recalled all entire batch. Even those who didn't show any signs of the problem. The units were tested, the problem traced and found. All units had their PROMs reflashed and were tested before they returned to the customers. As the problem had never occured before that took a while (but less than other software fixes) and a yet another check has been added to the QC list so it won't happen again. That is what you can and should expect from a manufacturer. But to call them "a joke of a company" and expect them to fix damage done by someone else is dumb at best. I won't get into the worst because it'll violate TOS. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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31st March 2006, 16:58	#43 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Shearwater on the PRISM Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000) As peter explained and as I understood the danger comes were if there is a small amount of water ingress your digital display will still function, but give a false read out. So if your electronics freeze, or crap out you are know depending on a digital display with know way to confirm (except dill flush and...). With the PRISM's true anolog display you have a visual meter that will inform you of water or electricall ingress, Hang on a moment - this is just not true. I have had small amout of water ingress into prism secondary and it manifested itself in a very nasty manner (slowly increasing ppo2 display) if I had been running manually........ I have used the analog secondary (old style prism) on my MK15.5 for a while until it crapped out (water ingress) then I switched to a MK15 analog secondary...after going through 3, yes 3 displays in a year I finally swapped to a digital MK16 one and BOY am I happy now! The ONLY advantage of an analog over a digital is it uses no batterys Big deal! Its no big deal to make sure the battery is good. The disadvantage of the anaolog secondarys are they are hard to read, they fail if you drop them, and they can STICK!!! I would take a digital over an analog any day - its just more reliable...in my experience. Chris - one option could be to get hold of a MK16 digital secondary and join it to your Prism secondary cable in a DIY junction box Or You could get Colin Wilcox to sell you one of his new digital MK15.5 secodarys which IIRC uses the same lumberg cable as your PRISM. He may be able to help ensure the pins match. sorry just seen this thread - havent read it all yet sorry if im repeating whats been discussed before __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 31st March 2006 at 17:22.
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31st March 2006, 17:32	#44 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,456	Re: Shearwater on the PRISM I understand worries about the damage that can easily be done to the analog gauge, hence I'm with Andy P. that it would be nice to have robust digital backup to take along. Wether using it on every dive or as a backup is obviously personal preference (or dictated by the operational condition of the original ). But water damage isn't a worry I have. The secondary is completely potted, settings chosen with a reed switch (magnet). Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I have had small amout of water ingress into prism secondary Where was the water ingress? The secondary I photographed on your rig had the needle gauge used on early PRISMs, but the PRISM has the secondary cal pod (including the sealed lid) in the sealed battery compartment, not on the gauge. So if that was the path for damage/malfunction it's quite different from the PRISM's setup. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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31st March 2006, 17:37	#45 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Shearwater on the PRISM Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) So if that was the path for damage/malfunction it's quite different from the PRISM's setup. It wasnt. Dont know where the water was ingressing - I know it wasnt into the cal area, maybe the cable. My only point is just the fact its analog does nothing at all to safeguard against faulty readings thru water ingress. If water gets in thru the cable or a crack or elsewhere (as it did in mine) - both can fail. Yes potted is less likely to get ingress - but if it does it can still screw up just like a digital As I previously highlighted the bit I disagree with is ; Quote: With the PRISM's true anolog display you have a visual meter that will inform you of water or electricall ingress, This suggests an anolog is safer than a digital beacuse it will some how inform you of a fault...my experience does not support this theory __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 31st March 2006 at 17:43.
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31st March 2006, 17:53	#46 (permalink)
mverick ScubaPimp Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 545	Re: Shearwater on the PRISM Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) The problem is that between manufacturer and the customer is the delivery. When the unit leaves the factory working properly and the customer at one point after delivery realizes there is damage to the unit (and I don't when Chris realized the secondary was .2 ata off, the instructor should have noticed it at beginning of class during the first pre-dive) why do you expect the manufacturer to cover that under warranty? That's like returning to your car's manufacturer weeks after delivery complaininng about a dent in the door. Sure it can happen, and the transport company should be liable for that damage, but the dealer shouldn't have let the customer drive it off the lot without notifying the manufacturer or filing the claim. Or the damage occured after the driver drove off the lot. Same here, the secondary could have been damaged during transport, the training, afterwards. You don't that, do you, mverick? As far as I know UPS has been a return customer for SMI, "buying" three PRISMs. I've seen one Pelican 1620 that cracked pretty good .... ... or buckets of sorb where the forks of the lift knocked holes into buckets. It does happen, you know, but unless it's obvious when you receive the item compensation is a pita to get from them. No matter if damage to Chris' secondary happened before or after he received it, it was beyond the control of the manufacturer. The problem with the software on the units on the other hand did happen during the manufacturing process, SMI recalled all entire batch. Even those who didn't show any signs of the problem. The units were tested, the problem traced and found. All units had their PROMs reflashed and were tested before they returned to the customers. As the problem had never occured before that took a while (but less than other software fixes) and a yet another check has been added to the QC list so it won't happen again. That is what you can and should expect from a manufacturer. But to call them "a joke of a company" and expect them to fix damage done by someone else is dumb at best. I won't get into the worst because it'll violate TOS. Agreed, about the problem COULD be between the manufacturer and Owner in Delivery. Who covers this? The Manufacturer. Why? Cause they are the ones who packed it for shipping. Why would I cover it if I don't pack it? Reason I expect the manufacturer to cover it is. It isn't the only problem they've had with one. And it has a WARRANTY on Parts. For a Year. If it's in the warranty period. They should cover it. Now, if he ran it over with a truck. No, but now that's kinda on the edge cause everyone is showing there units getting run over. Why? I don't know. HE explorer getting run over by a truck is stupid. I just want it water tight. They had problems with that. Don't think they had problems with trucks running over them. If the Secondaries are having problems. Cover them in Neoprene thick enough to take a minor fall. Didn't analog gauges have Locks to keep the needle from bouncing during a fall? I remember an old meter of mine had a lock for just that reason. And having a dent in the car. And a analog going bad. Isn't even in the same ball park. If you drove your car for a month. Hit a couple pot holes but no real damage. And your gauges in the car go out. Do you think the warranty you paid for should cover it? I do. It should be able to take the abuse it's going to see in the enviroment it's designed to be used in. Did they not design it to be dove off a boat???? Or did they design it to be only pool dove. And lowered into the water to be pulled out of a pelican case and put in the water there? If so, please state that in there advertising. Part of the price for the unit is for the warranty. That's why if you want a extended warranty on a car it cost more. Hell, if they just wrapped a beer coolie around it and zip tied it. I bet all this would go away. Nice if they put a magnetic lock on the analog gauge. So it won't bounce on shipment. Pull the magnet to dive. But do you really think that the secondary is just perfect? It's had these same problems since it came out. They need to do something don't they? And, you didn't get why I called them a JOKE. They diagnosed the problem as he had damaged it from a hit and knocked the counterweight off the gauge. THEY WERE WRONG. It started working again. They can't diagnose the problems with there own gauge. Chris Glad you like the unit. Hope you get your electronic secondary. Prism has one of the best scrubbers out there. And, pretty much the only problem I hear is with the Secondary. Other problems were with the bucket. And with the Changable adjustable pots. If you're hamfisted. You'll screw em up. Those are in the head and well guarded. Take time and no problems. If you're rough with adjustments. You'll want extra's.
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31st March 2006, 23:07	#47 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: Shearwater on the PRISM Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Hang on a moment - this is just not true. I have had small amout of water ingress into prism secondary and it manifested itself in a very nasty manner (slowly increasing ppo2 display) if I had been running manually........ If you were scrolling between sensors you would have seen the needle sticking and therefore know you have some sort of enduction. Quote: I have used the analog secondary (old style prism) on my MK15.5 for a while until it crapped out (water ingress) then I switched to a MK15 analog secondary...after going through 3, yes 3 displays in a year I finally swapped to a digital MK16 one and BOY am I happy now! Not sure how you did that, diffrent wiring and diffrent mlv out put? Quote: The ONLY advantage of an analog over a digital is it uses no batterys Big deal! Its no big deal to make sure the battery is good. I used to think that too untill speaking with Peter. Quote: The disadvantage of the anaolog secondarys are they are hard to read, they fail if you drop them, and they can STICK!!! I totaly agree, but feel the pros out way the cons Quote: I would take a digital over an analog any day - its just more reliable...in my experience. I am knew with very little experience, and even less knoweldge(just look at my spelling) the most disheartning thing about CCR diving is that so many very intelegent and experienced divers have such diffrent facts and information. So what I have deceided to do is still question but basicly listen to only one person otherwise you will lose your mind I bought the PRISM because of its electronic and scrubber design, is it perfect NO, but I am comfortable with its design and Peters advice. Quote: Chris - one option could be to get hold of a MK16 digital secondary and join it to your Prism secondary cable in a DIY junction box With so much diffrent advice I would call Peter direct and get his answer and then make a discesion. Quote: Or You could get Colin Wilcox to sell you one of his new digital MK15.5 secodarys which IIRC uses the same lumberg cable as your PRISM. He may be able to help ensure the pins match. Does he have a web site or an email? Could you pm me if it is not public info? __________________ Safe Diving, Martin Last edited by dive2dive2000 : 31st March 2006 at 23:15.
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1st April 2006, 02:01	#48 (permalink)
Chris Go Nude Or Go Home Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 609	Re: Shearwater on the PRISM Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000) If you were scrolling between sensors you would have seen the needle sticking and therefore know you have some sort of enduction. Not sure how you did that, diffrent wiring and diffrent mlv out put? I used to think that too untill speaking with Peter. I totaly agree, but feel the pros out way the cons I am knew with very little experience, and even less knoweldge(just look at my spelling) the most disheartning thing about CCR diving is that so many very intelegent and experienced divers have such diffrent facts and information. So what I have deceided to do is still question but basicly listen to only one person otherwise you will lose your mind I bought the PRISM because of its electronic and scrubber design, is it perfect NO, but I am comfortable with its design and Peters advice. With so much diffrent advice I would call Peter direct and get his answer and then make a discesion. Does he have a web site or an email? Could you pm me if it is not public info? Hi Martin Look no offence but you sound like my PRISM instructor, another Brain Washed CCR Diver out of the SMI Factory. There is way more knowledge out there than Peter, sure he knows his stuff well and I jave spoken to him on a number of occsaion both phone and Email on issues I have with my PRISM. He is well aware of my issues around the secondary and what I believe be be an Agricultural build quality. Dr Mike thanks for your suggestions I have been talking at length with ColKan and Jason McHatton on the Digital secondaries they are using on the Mk15.5 I think.... And the new Eagle I think this will be the way I am going to go when they are completed. Cheers Chris __________________ Megalodon Sorb and Sensors whilst in Australia www.divetub.com.au Diving & Photography @ www.uwphotog.com Last edited by Chris : 1st April 2006 at 04:11.
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1st April 2006, 02:26	#49 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,456	Re: Shearwater on the PRISM Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris) I have been talking at length with ColKan and Jason McHatton on the Digital secondaries they are not using on the Mk15.5 What are they using on the 155? __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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1st April 2006, 02:50	#50 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Shearwater on the PRISM Quote: If you were scrolling between sensors you would have seen the needle sticking and therefore know you have some sort of enduction. Nope. You can have a fault that manifests itself by rasing the needle higher at all cell positions than the actuall ppo2 is - scrolling does not show this up. Quote: Not sure how you did that, diffrent wiring and diffrent mlv out put? Original potted SMI secondary and SMI cells Quote: The ONLY advantage of an analog over a digital is it uses no batterys Big deal! Its no big deal to make sure the battery is good. Quote: I used to think that too untill speaking with Peter. I used to think that untill I actually used, travelled and abused analog secondaries for a reasonble period of time. Quote: The disadvantage of the anaolog secondarys are they are hard to read, they fail if you drop them, and they can STICK!!! Quote: I totaly agree, but feel the pros out way the cons What Pros? No battery? Big deal! Quote: I would take a digital over an analog any day - its just more reliable...in my experience. Quote: I am knew with very little experience, and even less knoweldge(just look at my spelling) the most disheartning thing about CCR diving is that so many very intelegent and experienced divers have such diffrent facts and information. So what I have deceided to do is still question but basicly listen to only one person otherwise you will lose your mind I bought the PRISM because of its electronic and scrubber design, is it perfect NO, but I am comfortable with its design and Peters advice. I am sure you will enjoy your Prism. You are quite right there are often a lot of differing opinions - but you have to look at who is advising. I try to remain completely unbias and neutral in any advice I give. I have no affiliations with any manufacturer. I tell it as I experience it as an end user. My advise is listen to all and try to see a common theme - speak to end users. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 1st April 2006 at 02:56.
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