Defective & Dangerous Sensors

Heretic · 2nd January 2008, 19:57

I've also had problems with my Prism sensors.

During training, two of my sensors had marginal voltage readings. My instructor arranged for new ones to be shipped. When they arrived, I found that the voltages were adequate; however, the protective coating on the back of one is delaminating from the sensor. I'd rather return it, but since it still reads fine, I'm not willing to take the chance on getting a bad sensor.

Mike · 4th January 2008, 00:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by Heretic)

the protective coating on the back of one is delaminating from the sensor. .

I got well over a year out of a sensor that had the coating peel off - and it went back to SMI a couple of times in that period.

Don't worry too much about it.

Mike

silent running · 4th January 2008, 01:22

Sorry to hear that people are having trouble with SMI/AI sensors. Considering the crude way in which O2 sensors work, it would be strange if there weren't problems with AI sensors, just as there are with all other sensor mfgs. After over 5 years of ownership, I've gotten 2 bad sensors-current limited to 1.2ish. They were replaced without a fuss. I had heard that there were some problems inhouse at AI recently, can't remember what the nature of it was, Sharon would know. I have never had a problem with SMI CS other than some close calls on my travel by deadlines and I've not missed a dive yet.

In my experience, the phone is the way to get the fastest response if your instructor/dealer isn't getting results for you. Mornings seem to be best and it sometimes takes 2 calls to get somebody...

silent running · 4th January 2008, 01:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris)

Best thing SMI could have done getting out of Rebreathers, customer service from them is some of the worst I have ever had the misfortune to deal with. Many many months of denial from SMI as you seem to be getting now and painful back and forth Emails and phone to get anything done.

Yo Chriso, I know your experience may have been different, but remember there may be a difference between denial and simply not knowing what has caused said problem and then taking time to solve it.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris)

We can only hope Oceanic can pick up the ball and run with the PRISM II. If SMI was to do the right thing they would give some of that cash back to Oceanic to offer support for the exsisting PRISM divers out there.

Cheers
Chriso

As I and others have been told, Oceanic will offer support to existing Prism owners. I know of nothing to suggest that SMI are trying to screw the owners of original Prisms. Which wouldn't exactly be beneficial to Oceanic's reputation as do to the design carry-over, it will obviously be wrapped up tightly with SMI's reputation as well... -Andy

Heretic · 19th January 2008, 01:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mike)

I got well over a year out of a sensor that had the coating peel off - and it went back to SMI a couple of times in that period.

Don't worry too much about it.

Mike

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it.

FWIW, I just finished pre-diving the rig. That sensor read 17.2 mV, which is entirely consistent with its prior readings.

I won't worry about it.

I also spoke with SMI today to order some non-sensor spare parts for my tool kit. They mentioned that they are getting a new batch of sensor in during the next few days.

saveourseas · 22nd January 2008, 03:52

SMI had received a batch of bad sensors from Analiitic Industries in September. I spoke to SMI regarding some I had from that batch not lasting more than 1 month. Both SMI and AI are aware and researching the problem. SMI has said they will replace any bad ones from that batch. Ship the bad ones back to SMI for replacement, as AI wants to take a look at them.

NEwreckdiver · 22nd January 2008, 12:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by saveourseas)

SMI had received a batch of bad sensors from Analiitic Industries in September. I spoke to SMI regarding some I had from that batch not lasting more than 1 month. Both SMI and AI are aware and researching the problem. SMI has said they will replace any bad ones from that batch. Ship the bad ones back to SMI for replacement, as AI wants to take a look at them.

Actually, the problem started in July.

General comment to the group:

Here are some things you should know about SMS 202 sensors that may be helpful in troubleshooting your cells:

The PRISM cells are 20 +/- 2 mV sensors. That means the acceptable range is 18-22 mV for a new sensor. So for example, if you have a sensor that reads 17 mV, it is out of spec and should be replaced. Even AI concurs with that (yes I have been speaking with them directly now). However, many of these sensors can't be fully evaluated until they are under a load. If they won't hit 1.6 ata on an O2 flush at 20 ft, they are bad, period - regardless of voltage output on the bench. I have had some sensors that display acceptably on the bench but don't hit the high numbers. I have come to the conclusion the JULY and OCT batches - at least - are flawed. I have found generally in the 13 sensors we have evaluated either on the bench or in the rig that the sensors from these batches have issues. You can tell when a sensor was made by looking at the serial number. The first 3 digits are the date code YMM.

Hope this info is helpful.

Heather

silent running · 22nd January 2008, 16:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by NEwreckdiver)

Actually, the problem started in July.

General comment to the group:

Here are some things you should know about SMS 202 sensors that may be helpful in troubleshooting your cells:

The PRISM cells are 20 +/- 2 mV sensors. That means the acceptable range is 18-22 mV for a new sensor. So for example, if you have a sensor that reads 17 mV, it is out of spec and should be replaced. Even AI concurs with that (yes I have been speaking with them directly now). However, many of these sensors can't be fully evaluated until they are under a load. If they won't hit 1.6 ata on an O2 flush at 20 ft, they are bad, period - regardless of voltage output on the bench. I have had some sensors that display acceptably on the bench but don't hit the high numbers. I have come to the conclusion the JULY and OCT batches - at least - are flawed. I have found generally in the 13 sensors we have evaluated either on the bench or in the rig that the sensors from these batches have issues. You can tell when a sensor was made by looking at the serial number. The first 3 digits are the date code YMM.

Hope this info is helpful.

Heather

Thanks for the detailed info Heather. I'll check the dates on my sensors... -Andy

2nd January 2008, 19:57	#21 (permalink)
Heretic New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 18	Re: Defective & Dangerous Sensors I've also had problems with my Prism sensors. During training, two of my sensors had marginal voltage readings. My instructor arranged for new ones to be shipped. When they arrived, I found that the voltages were adequate; however, the protective coating on the back of one is delaminating from the sensor. I'd rather return it, but since it still reads fine, I'm not willing to take the chance on getting a bad sensor. __________________ Be ruled by your dreams, not by your fears.
(Offline)

4th January 2008, 00:28	#22 (permalink)
Mike Prism 'prentice Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 329	Re: Defective & Dangerous Sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by Heretic) the protective coating on the back of one is delaminating from the sensor. . I got well over a year out of a sensor that had the coating peel off - and it went back to SMI a couple of times in that period. Don't worry too much about it. Mike __________________ Open ....... Closed Mind ........ Loop
(Offline)

4th January 2008, 01:22	#23 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,836	Re: Defective & Dangerous Sensors Sorry to hear that people are having trouble with SMI/AI sensors. Considering the crude way in which O2 sensors work, it would be strange if there weren't problems with AI sensors, just as there are with all other sensor mfgs. After over 5 years of ownership, I've gotten 2 bad sensors-current limited to 1.2ish. They were replaced without a fuss. I had heard that there were some problems inhouse at AI recently, can't remember what the nature of it was, Sharon would know. I have never had a problem with SMI CS other than some close calls on my travel by deadlines and I've not missed a dive yet. In my experience, the phone is the way to get the fastest response if your instructor/dealer isn't getting results for you. Mornings seem to be best and it sometimes takes 2 calls to get somebody...
(Online)

4th January 2008, 01:52	#24 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,836	Re: Defective & Dangerous Sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris) Best thing SMI could have done getting out of Rebreathers, customer service from them is some of the worst I have ever had the misfortune to deal with. Many many months of denial from SMI as you seem to be getting now and painful back and forth Emails and phone to get anything done. Yo Chriso, I know your experience may have been different, but remember there may be a difference between denial and simply not knowing what has caused said problem and then taking time to solve it. Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris) We can only hope Oceanic can pick up the ball and run with the PRISM II. If SMI was to do the right thing they would give some of that cash back to Oceanic to offer support for the exsisting PRISM divers out there. Cheers Chriso As I and others have been told, Oceanic will offer support to existing Prism owners. I know of nothing to suggest that SMI are trying to screw the owners of original Prisms. Which wouldn't exactly be beneficial to Oceanic's reputation as do to the design carry-over, it will obviously be wrapped up tightly with SMI's reputation as well... -Andy
(Online)

19th January 2008, 01:16	#25 (permalink)
Heretic New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 18	Re: Defective & Dangerous Sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by Mike) I got well over a year out of a sensor that had the coating peel off - and it went back to SMI a couple of times in that period. Don't worry too much about it. Mike Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. FWIW, I just finished pre-diving the rig. That sensor read 17.2 mV, which is entirely consistent with its prior readings. I won't worry about it. I also spoke with SMI today to order some non-sensor spare parts for my tool kit. They mentioned that they are getting a new batch of sensor in during the next few days. __________________ Be ruled by your dreams, not by your fears.
(Offline)

22nd January 2008, 03:52	#26 (permalink)
saveourseas Matthew Addison Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York, Los Angeles Posts: 7	Re: Defective & Dangerous Sensors SMI had received a batch of bad sensors from Analiitic Industries in September. I spoke to SMI regarding some I had from that batch not lasting more than 1 month. Both SMI and AI are aware and researching the problem. SMI has said they will replace any bad ones from that batch. Ship the bad ones back to SMI for replacement, as AI wants to take a look at them.
(Offline)

22nd January 2008, 12:26	#27 (permalink)
NEwreckdiver New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Boston MA Posts: 49	Re: Defective & Dangerous Sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by saveourseas) SMI had received a batch of bad sensors from Analiitic Industries in September. I spoke to SMI regarding some I had from that batch not lasting more than 1 month. Both SMI and AI are aware and researching the problem. SMI has said they will replace any bad ones from that batch. Ship the bad ones back to SMI for replacement, as AI wants to take a look at them. Actually, the problem started in July. General comment to the group: Here are some things you should know about SMS 202 sensors that may be helpful in troubleshooting your cells: The PRISM cells are 20 +/- 2 mV sensors. That means the acceptable range is 18-22 mV for a new sensor. So for example, if you have a sensor that reads 17 mV, it is out of spec and should be replaced. Even AI concurs with that (yes I have been speaking with them directly now). However, many of these sensors can't be fully evaluated until they are under a load. If they won't hit 1.6 ata on an O2 flush at 20 ft, they are bad, period - regardless of voltage output on the bench. I have had some sensors that display acceptably on the bench but don't hit the high numbers. I have come to the conclusion the JULY and OCT batches - at least - are flawed. I have found generally in the 13 sensors we have evaluated either on the bench or in the rig that the sensors from these batches have issues. You can tell when a sensor was made by looking at the serial number. The first 3 digits are the date code YMM. Hope this info is helpful. Heather
(Offline)

22nd January 2008, 16:44	#28 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,836	Re: Defective & Dangerous Sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by NEwreckdiver) Actually, the problem started in July. General comment to the group: Here are some things you should know about SMS 202 sensors that may be helpful in troubleshooting your cells: The PRISM cells are 20 +/- 2 mV sensors. That means the acceptable range is 18-22 mV for a new sensor. So for example, if you have a sensor that reads 17 mV, it is out of spec and should be replaced. Even AI concurs with that (yes I have been speaking with them directly now). However, many of these sensors can't be fully evaluated until they are under a load. If they won't hit 1.6 ata on an O2 flush at 20 ft, they are bad, period - regardless of voltage output on the bench. I have had some sensors that display acceptably on the bench but don't hit the high numbers. I have come to the conclusion the JULY and OCT batches - at least - are flawed. I have found generally in the 13 sensors we have evaluated either on the bench or in the rig that the sensors from these batches have issues. You can tell when a sensor was made by looking at the serial number. The first 3 digits are the date code YMM. Hope this info is helpful. Heather Thanks for the detailed info Heather. I'll check the dates on my sensors... -Andy
(Online)

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