Redundant wings and the Prism...

silent running · 8th September 2005, 04:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

Just a thought boys but how about you just use the wings you are happy with now and use bailout tanks with better buoyancy characteristics.

Seems like a better approach to me.

Hi Steve, I catch your drift, but I'm not really happy with the stock Prism wing as it is donut shaped and thus prone to abrasion on the bottom and it's not redundant which I'm told I will need if I do any deeper deco trimix diving without a drysuit. While on the subject of bailout cyls, is it not true that high pressure 7 ltr steels can carry al most as much gas as an al 80? I took my friends word on this.-Andy

Underwaterbear · 8th September 2005, 05:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hi Steve, I catch your drift, but I'm not really happy with the stock Prism wing as it is donut shaped and thus prone to abrasion on the bottom and it's not redundant which I'm told I will need if I do any deeper deco trimix diving without a drysuit. While on the subject of bailout cyls, is it not true that high pressure 7 ltr steels can carry al most as much gas as an al 80? I took my friends word on this.-Andy

Getting rid of the donut for that reason is one thing but what a few here are trying to point out is the need to think more clearly about buoyancy options that match up with the choice of cylinder.

An Al80 here (at least here in oz) is either 240Bar/3000psi or 207Bar/3500psi. These are roughtly 9.3 and 10.8 litre tanks respectively. So the 7L steels hold a bit less, even at 240/3500 they are a 60cf tank. Even if you find some 7 litre 300Bar/4350psi tanks they are still only 75cf....

Cheers

wizbang · 8th September 2005, 06:02

Lets do the math.
7ltr @ 230 bar = 1610 litres
7 ltr @ 300 bar = 2100 litres
10 ltr ali (80CuFt) @ 230 bar = 2300 litres

There are some low presure ali 80's here but not that many anymore. (where I get about anyway)
Some people are happy to "pump things up" but I don't count on being able to get it when I need it.
Eg the second day of of two big dives and I need one of the stages pumped back upto 250 bar and the shop says, "NO" for various reasons.(and rightly so)
I dive with two Ali 11.4's and the breather for stuff to 100m with a rec wing.
It is heavy out of water but no so bad inwater, certainly better than steel 10's or steel 12's.

I have noticed that you guys in england have a fantastic little tank.
A 7ltr ali from Luxfer under the Sea & Sea name called "Dive Team"
Good characteristics and a great shape. (only a touch wider than a steel 7ltr.
Man we could sell alot here if we could get them.

Oh and UWB you mixed your psi's and bar's up.

silent running · 8th September 2005, 09:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Underwaterbear)

Getting rid of the donut for that reason is one thing but what a few here are trying to point out is the need to think more clearly about buoyancy options that match up with the choice of cylinder.

An Al80 here (at least here in oz) is either 240Bar/3000psi or 207Bar/3500psi. These are roughtly 9.3 and 10.8 litre tanks respectively. So the 7L steels hold a bit less, even at 240/3500 they are a 60cf tank. Even if you find some 7 litre 300Bar/4350psi tanks they are still only 75cf....

Cheers

Hello Underwaterbear, so I guess what is being tossed about here is that I need to know exactly which size/type bailout cyls I will be using before I choose a wing, and that this is a better way of going about it than imagining a heavyest cyl scenerio, right?
And thanks to both you and wizbang for the cyl pressure/volume comparisons. My friend was counting on a 300 bar 7 ltr. I think he may have just prefered them for their relative small size and trim characteristics. I also forgot about the difficulties of getting those hp fills... I've got plenty more thinking to do. Thanks-Andy

LukeN · 8th September 2005, 10:33

Hi Andy,
You could just reverse a spare prism wing for the deeper stuff, its probly the cheapest easiest way out.I'm sure Chris might sell his to you!All you would need would be some longer bolts and them take it of when you don't need it.
Luke

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hi Steve, I catch your drift, but I'm not really happy with the stock Prism wing as it is donut shaped and thus prone to abrasion on the bottom and it's not redundant which I'm told I will need if I do any deeper deco trimix diving without a drysuit. While on the subject of bailout cyls, is it not true that high pressure 7 ltr steels can carry al most as much gas as an al 80? I took my friends word on this.-Andy

dive2dive2000 · 8th September 2005, 15:03

Very nice idea

Martin
BTW you can buy mine and I am local pm or email me if interested

Quote: (Originally Posted by LukeN)

Hi Andy,
You could just reverse a spare prism wing for the deeper stuff, its probly the cheapest easiest way out.I'm sure Chris might sell his to you!All you would need would be some longer bolts and them take it of when you don't need it.
Luke

Bubble Boy · 8th September 2005, 18:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hi Simon, I'm glad you're man enough to admit to dressing in yellow. I actually think the Buddy wing is nicely thought out with those d-rings on the outside of the bladder for the rear stage clips. It seems fine for al 30-40 cufts. Does it fit on the stock Prism by chance? I'm guessing the DR supers will need a back plate, right?-Andy

Hi Andy,

They both need the Deep Sea Supply converter kit which works very nicely.
Give Tobin a call, well worth the money and gives you flexibility to change as desired.
When I've finished messing around with config I'll post some pictures

silent running · 9th September 2005, 03:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by LukeN)

Hi Andy,
You could just reverse a spare prism wing for the deeper stuff, its probly the cheapest easiest way out.I'm sure Chris might sell his to you!All you would need would be some longer bolts and them take it of when you don't need it.
Luke

Hi Luke, this is what Peter Ready suggested and while it would work, I'm not keen on having twice the amount of wing caught under my unit everytime I stow it. I would prefer something a little less bulky. I will first have to work out my harness issue, then the cyl isssue, then the wing... -Andy

Chris · 9th September 2005, 04:05

Quote:

When I've finished messing around with config I'll post some pictures
__________________
Regards
Simon

Si yours will never look as good or work as well as mine while you have that

harness and wing on it

Cheers
Chris

silent running · 9th September 2005, 04:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris)

It will never look as good or work as well as mine while you have that

harness and wing on it

Cheers
Chris

I have a growing fear you are right. Feel free to poke me with the stick anytime.-Andy

8th September 2005, 04:31	#21 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,832	Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) Just a thought boys but how about you just use the wings you are happy with now and use bailout tanks with better buoyancy characteristics. Seems like a better approach to me. Hi Steve, I catch your drift, but I'm not really happy with the stock Prism wing as it is donut shaped and thus prone to abrasion on the bottom and it's not redundant which I'm told I will need if I do any deeper deco trimix diving without a drysuit. While on the subject of bailout cyls, is it not true that high pressure 7 ltr steels can carry al most as much gas as an al 80? I took my friends word on this.-Andy
(Offline)

8th September 2005, 05:59	#22 (permalink)
Underwaterbear A Prismer in Megland Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 192	Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hi Steve, I catch your drift, but I'm not really happy with the stock Prism wing as it is donut shaped and thus prone to abrasion on the bottom and it's not redundant which I'm told I will need if I do any deeper deco trimix diving without a drysuit. While on the subject of bailout cyls, is it not true that high pressure 7 ltr steels can carry al most as much gas as an al 80? I took my friends word on this.-Andy Getting rid of the donut for that reason is one thing but what a few here are trying to point out is the need to think more clearly about buoyancy options that match up with the choice of cylinder. An Al80 here (at least here in oz) is either 240Bar/3000psi or 207Bar/3500psi. These are roughtly 9.3 and 10.8 litre tanks respectively. So the 7L steels hold a bit less, even at 240/3500 they are a 60cf tank. Even if you find some 7 litre 300Bar/4350psi tanks they are still only 75cf.... Cheers
(Offline)

8th September 2005, 06:02	#23 (permalink)
wizbang WEB MERMEN Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Vision Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth Australia Posts: 386	Lets do the math. 7ltr @ 230 bar = 1610 litres 7 ltr @ 300 bar = 2100 litres 10 ltr ali (80CuFt) @ 230 bar = 2300 litres There are some low presure ali 80's here but not that many anymore. (where I get about anyway) Some people are happy to "pump things up" but I don't count on being able to get it when I need it. Eg the second day of of two big dives and I need one of the stages pumped back upto 250 bar and the shop says, "NO" for various reasons.(and rightly so) I dive with two Ali 11.4's and the breather for stuff to 100m with a rec wing. It is heavy out of water but no so bad inwater, certainly better than steel 10's or steel 12's. I have noticed that you guys in england have a fantastic little tank. A 7ltr ali from Luxfer under the Sea & Sea name called "Dive Team" Good characteristics and a great shape. (only a touch wider than a steel 7ltr. Man we could sell alot here if we could get them. Oh and UWB you mixed your psi's and bar's up.
(Offline)

8th September 2005, 09:36	#24 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,832	Quote: (Originally Posted by Underwaterbear) Getting rid of the donut for that reason is one thing but what a few here are trying to point out is the need to think more clearly about buoyancy options that match up with the choice of cylinder. An Al80 here (at least here in oz) is either 240Bar/3000psi or 207Bar/3500psi. These are roughtly 9.3 and 10.8 litre tanks respectively. So the 7L steels hold a bit less, even at 240/3500 they are a 60cf tank. Even if you find some 7 litre 300Bar/4350psi tanks they are still only 75cf.... Cheers Hello Underwaterbear, so I guess what is being tossed about here is that I need to know exactly which size/type bailout cyls I will be using before I choose a wing, and that this is a better way of going about it than imagining a heavyest cyl scenerio, right? And thanks to both you and wizbang for the cyl pressure/volume comparisons. My friend was counting on a 300 bar 7 ltr. I think he may have just prefered them for their relative small size and trim characteristics. I also forgot about the difficulties of getting those hp fills... I've got plenty more thinking to do. Thanks-Andy
(Offline)

8th September 2005, 10:33	#25 (permalink)
LukeN New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Prism Topaz Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Australia,West Aus Posts: 84	Hi Andy, You could just reverse a spare prism wing for the deeper stuff, its probly the cheapest easiest way out.I'm sure Chris might sell his to you!All you would need would be some longer bolts and them take it of when you don't need it. Luke Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hi Steve, I catch your drift, but I'm not really happy with the stock Prism wing as it is donut shaped and thus prone to abrasion on the bottom and it's not redundant which I'm told I will need if I do any deeper deco trimix diving without a drysuit. While on the subject of bailout cyls, is it not true that high pressure 7 ltr steels can carry al most as much gas as an al 80? I took my friends word on this.-Andy
(Offline)

8th September 2005, 15:03	#26 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Very nice idea Martin BTW you can buy mine and I am local pm or email me if interested Quote: (Originally Posted by LukeN) Hi Andy, You could just reverse a spare prism wing for the deeper stuff, its probly the cheapest easiest way out.I'm sure Chris might sell his to you!All you would need would be some longer bolts and them take it of when you don't need it. Luke
(Offline)

8th September 2005, 18:23	#27 (permalink)
Bubble Boy PRISMs are kewl Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz MK 15.X Other CCR Dolphin Ray Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 132	Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hi Simon, I'm glad you're man enough to admit to dressing in yellow. I actually think the Buddy wing is nicely thought out with those d-rings on the outside of the bladder for the rear stage clips. It seems fine for al 30-40 cufts. Does it fit on the stock Prism by chance? I'm guessing the DR supers will need a back plate, right?-Andy Hi Andy, They both need the Deep Sea Supply converter kit which works very nicely. Give Tobin a call, well worth the money and gives you flexibility to change as desired. When I've finished messing around with config I'll post some pictures
(Offline)

9th September 2005, 03:56	#28 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,832	Quote: (Originally Posted by LukeN) Hi Andy, You could just reverse a spare prism wing for the deeper stuff, its probly the cheapest easiest way out.I'm sure Chris might sell his to you!All you would need would be some longer bolts and them take it of when you don't need it. Luke Hi Luke, this is what Peter Ready suggested and while it would work, I'm not keen on having twice the amount of wing caught under my unit everytime I stow it. I would prefer something a little less bulky. I will first have to work out my harness issue, then the cyl isssue, then the wing... -Andy
(Offline)

9th September 2005, 04:05	#29 (permalink)
Chris Go Nude Or Go Home Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 609	Quote: When I've finished messing around with config I'll post some pictures __________________ Regards Simon Si yours will never look as good or work as well as mine while you have that harness and wing on it Cheers Chris __________________ Megalodon Sorb and Sensors whilst in Australia www.divetub.com.au Diving & Photography @ www.uwphotog.com
(Offline)

9th September 2005, 04:38	#30 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,832	Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris) It will never look as good or work as well as mine while you have that harness and wing on it Cheers Chris I have a growing fear you are right. Feel free to poke me with the stick anytime.-Andy
(Offline)

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