Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008

Drmike · 22nd April 2008, 16:25

[quote=MatV;182764]

Quote: (Originally Posted by theDiver)

>This product is not made for the hardcore technical divers, it is made for >recreational diving, for recreational divers.

Mat: Well anyway inquiring minds would like to know why they keep telling you that production units would be different when anyone with a fair knowledge of molding technique would state that the molds for these "prototypes" cost 5 digit Euro numbers. And that in the light that different materials would _not_ fix the design flaws.
Flaw no 1: material thickness "around" the canister. Wallthickness too thin to be cured with POM.

I was told the can is to be made from Alluminium and the top part will be changed from yellow plastic to black.

Quote:

Flaw no 2: I sincerely doubt that the " panscraper, or mosquito swatter" display would withstand more than 3-5 dives on a RIB.

looked quite robust to me.

Quote:

Flaw no3: The scrubber indeed was "prepacked". However it was all granules. A fake? No means of preloading, no spring.

Prepack = granules. It looks like it has a foam pad inside to provide loading (same way MK15.5 works) I spoke to the guy who owns both companies (CS Lunar and Posiedon) and he said that although they themselves wont be supplying user fillable scrubbers he has no doubt someone will (aftermarket)

Quote:

>It is a product for the type of divers, who has a non technical dive >education, dive with single tank, don't do deco dives.
>They also send their equipment to a shop, for early checkup, repairs, and >all that.
>Therefore I think it makes perfect sense you send in the head when the >cells need to be changed, remember you don't even fill the sofnolime >yourself.

He also told me they are launching a trimix tech version at dema this year that you can program your bail gas volumes into.

Overall I was impressed with the safety features of the unit. light and well thought out. Ill be getting the chance to dive on shortly.

WOB is 1.77 which puts it up with the best.

***diverklondike*** · 22nd April 2008, 16:35

There is a lot more design effort going into this unit than most people understand. My two cents is that most people have been way to quick to say it won't work becuase of XYZ.... Innovation is all about bringing new ideas and approaches to the marketplace...

M

silent running · 22nd April 2008, 17:34

[quote=Drmike;182835]

Quote: (Originally Posted by MatV)

I was told the can is to be made from Alluminium and the top part will be changed from yellow plastic to black. looked quite robust to me.
Prepack = granules. It looks like it has a foam pad inside to provide loading (same way MK15.5 works) I spoke to the guy who owns both companies (CS Lunar and Posiedon) and he said that although they themselves wont be supplying user fillable scrubbers he has no doubt someone will (aftermarket)

He also told me they are launching a trimix tech version at dema this year that you can program your bail gas volumes into.

Overall I was impressed with the safety features of the unit. light and well thought out. Ill be getting the chance to dive on shortly.

WOB is 1.77 which puts it up with the best.

1.77 WOB sounds very good, those hoses look very small though.

Very cool Mike, thanks for the info. I hope you post about your experience diving it.

I'm glad to hear the tmix version will be at DEMA. But it is my understanding from talking to Richard Pyle that the recreational unit will not do a surface cal with O2 lower than 99% purity, which means that diving in remote places with say 95% will not be possible. Did this issue come up during your conversation with the owner?

Drmike · 23rd April 2008, 02:19

[quote=silent running;182843]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

1.77 WOB sounds very good, those hoses look very small though.

Very cool Mike, thanks for the info. I hope you post about your experience diving it.

I'm glad to hear the tmix version will be at DEMA. But it is my understanding from talking to Richard Pyle that the recreational unit will not do a surface cal with O2 lower than 99% purity, which means that diving in remote places with say 95% will not be possible. Did this issue come up during your conversation with the owner?

nope, but what did come up was an interesting discussion on the auto pre dive cell calibration. I suggested to him the best pre dive cell test would include a current limitation test over max setpoint. He said unit was capable of holding well over 1.3bar on surface so I hope they will consider implementing that. Adding current limit test to the other auto tests and continuous cell validation could make for one very interesting unit from a safety perspective.

I was actually quite impressed with the unit and the concept of cont cell validation. It apears well thought out. Yes the hoses look small (but so what? wob passes CE unlike some larger looking hosed units) but its deceptive as they have no corrogation like normal rubber hoses and are smooth bore. It wouldnt surprise me if the inner bore was same as other units inner bore (when you take into account rubber hose corrogation)

15kg - lol

Id like to have the head off the CS lunar MK6 sat ontop of a big radial scrubber, rear mounted lungs and off board plug in gas please

- where do I pay?

**Dave Sutton** · 23rd April 2008, 02:51

It's funny how the impression has changed. It's clever engineering, no doubt. I spent a good 45 minutes at BTS looking one over and I was impressed. Stone is one smart guy and the design is tight. Definately out of the box. I'd buy one for day to day recreational use, no question. A tech-version? Bring it on.

Dave

.

Ben Field · 23rd April 2008, 09:15

There is no doubt it'll work and that the electronics are capable...

But the marketing and salespeople currently showing the unit are sodding appalling. The unit on show at LIDS and the guys on the stand left me and my friends very unimpressed- they where under the impression 1000's (I quote) of OC Padi divers will buy them and rent them at resorts, I simply don't believe.

What worries me is the recreational unit will crash and burn and take the possibilty of a tech unit down in flames with it.

Like Dave I'd love to try one, its so light it would be a pleasure to dive I suspect... would I spent that much on something so restricted- no never, but then I'm not the target market.

FWIW My OC buddies who are target market- shallow diving, recreational stuff- thought it was ugly and needed a cover.

***caveseeker7*** · 23rd April 2008, 10:02

The units in Düsseldorf both had aluminum scrubber cans, which seemed quite solid.
The yellow plastic material on the other hand was not and, I was told, will be replaced.
I liked the unit, a couple of changes and it should be a great little rig.

paulraymaekers · 23rd April 2008, 10:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

WOB is 1.77 which puts it up with the best.

?? where do you get that number from??

it can be the WOB when breathing from the OC poseidon, but not breathing CC from the unit :-)

after you've been looking at WOB tests on rebreathers, you start to have some feeling on WOB just by having a look at the unit

paul

PaulTG2 · 23rd April 2008, 16:37

Hello,

Great to see they are replacing the original plastic. After DEMA I posted that the plastic didn't look like it would survive normal diving much less rental equipment treatment. The condition of the show unit at DEMA and that in the photo above supports that position.

Good to see them engineering a more durable unit. I hope that effort includes the BOV. If they can solve the cheap plastic problem and the prepacked scrubber issues (which I see primarily as cost in a rental environment) they may have a nice unit.

The unit has to be able to survive drops and falls without damage. Double the height of the fall it has to survive if it is rental equipment.

-paul

OceanOpportunity · 24th April 2008, 01:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by theDiver)

I think you have misunderstood who this rebreather is made for.
This product is not made for the hardcore technical divers, it is made for recreational diving, for recreational divers.
It is a product for the type of divers, who has a non technical dive education, dive with single tank, don't do deco dives.

Just playing devil's advocate on this (again)...but having said the above, why do they need a rebreather at all? Longer no-D times, well maybe....

22nd April 2008, 16:25	#11 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008 [quote=MatV;182764] Quote: (Originally Posted by theDiver) >This product is not made for the hardcore technical divers, it is made for >recreational diving, for recreational divers. Mat: Well anyway inquiring minds would like to know why they keep telling you that production units would be different when anyone with a fair knowledge of molding technique would state that the molds for these "prototypes" cost 5 digit Euro numbers. And that in the light that different materials would _not_ fix the design flaws. Flaw no 1: material thickness "around" the canister. Wallthickness too thin to be cured with POM. I was told the can is to be made from Alluminium and the top part will be changed from yellow plastic to black. Quote: Flaw no 2: I sincerely doubt that the " panscraper, or mosquito swatter" display would withstand more than 3-5 dives on a RIB. looked quite robust to me. Quote: Flaw no3: The scrubber indeed was "prepacked". However it was all granules. A fake? No means of preloading, no spring. Prepack = granules. It looks like it has a foam pad inside to provide loading (same way MK15.5 works) I spoke to the guy who owns both companies (CS Lunar and Posiedon) and he said that although they themselves wont be supplying user fillable scrubbers he has no doubt someone will (aftermarket) Quote: >It is a product for the type of divers, who has a non technical dive >education, dive with single tank, don't do deco dives. >They also send their equipment to a shop, for early checkup, repairs, and >all that. >Therefore I think it makes perfect sense you send in the head when the >cells need to be changed, remember you don't even fill the sofnolime >yourself. He also told me they are launching a trimix tech version at dema this year that you can program your bail gas volumes into. Overall I was impressed with the safety features of the unit. light and well thought out. Ill be getting the chance to dive on shortly. WOB is 1.77 which puts it up with the best. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
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22nd April 2008, 16:35	#12 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,461	Re: Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008 There is a lot more design effort going into this unit than most people understand. My two cents is that most people have been way to quick to say it won't work becuase of XYZ.... Innovation is all about bringing new ideas and approaches to the marketplace... M
(Online)

22nd April 2008, 17:34	#13 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,773	Re: Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008 [quote=Drmike;182835] Quote: (Originally Posted by MatV) I was told the can is to be made from Alluminium and the top part will be changed from yellow plastic to black. looked quite robust to me. Prepack = granules. It looks like it has a foam pad inside to provide loading (same way MK15.5 works) I spoke to the guy who owns both companies (CS Lunar and Posiedon) and he said that although they themselves wont be supplying user fillable scrubbers he has no doubt someone will (aftermarket) He also told me they are launching a trimix tech version at dema this year that you can program your bail gas volumes into. Overall I was impressed with the safety features of the unit. light and well thought out. Ill be getting the chance to dive on shortly. WOB is 1.77 which puts it up with the best. 1.77 WOB sounds very good, those hoses look very small though. Very cool Mike, thanks for the info. I hope you post about your experience diving it. I'm glad to hear the tmix version will be at DEMA. But it is my understanding from talking to Richard Pyle that the recreational unit will not do a surface cal with O2 lower than 99% purity, which means that diving in remote places with say 95% will not be possible. Did this issue come up during your conversation with the owner?
(Online)

23rd April 2008, 02:19	#14 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008 [quote=silent running;182843] Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) 1.77 WOB sounds very good, those hoses look very small though. Very cool Mike, thanks for the info. I hope you post about your experience diving it. I'm glad to hear the tmix version will be at DEMA. But it is my understanding from talking to Richard Pyle that the recreational unit will not do a surface cal with O2 lower than 99% purity, which means that diving in remote places with say 95% will not be possible. Did this issue come up during your conversation with the owner? nope, but what did come up was an interesting discussion on the auto pre dive cell calibration. I suggested to him the best pre dive cell test would include a current limitation test over max setpoint. He said unit was capable of holding well over 1.3bar on surface so I hope they will consider implementing that. Adding current limit test to the other auto tests and continuous cell validation could make for one very interesting unit from a safety perspective. I was actually quite impressed with the unit and the concept of cont cell validation. It apears well thought out. Yes the hoses look small (but so what? wob passes CE unlike some larger looking hosed units) but its deceptive as they have no corrogation like normal rubber hoses and are smooth bore. It wouldnt surprise me if the inner bore was same as other units inner bore (when you take into account rubber hose corrogation) 15kg - lol Id like to have the head off the CS lunar MK6 sat ontop of a big radial scrubber, rear mounted lungs and off board plug in gas please - where do I pay? __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
(Offline)

23rd April 2008, 02:51	#15 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,510	Re: Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008 It's funny how the impression has changed. It's clever engineering, no doubt. I spent a good 45 minutes at BTS looking one over and I was impressed. Stone is one smart guy and the design is tight. Definately out of the box. I'd buy one for day to day recreational use, no question. A tech-version? Bring it on. Dave . __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
(Offline)

23rd April 2008, 09:15	#16 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,482	Re: Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008 There is no doubt it'll work and that the electronics are capable... But the marketing and salespeople currently showing the unit are sodding appalling. The unit on show at LIDS and the guys on the stand left me and my friends very unimpressed- they where under the impression 1000's (I quote) of OC Padi divers will buy them and rent them at resorts, I simply don't believe. What worries me is the recreational unit will crash and burn and take the possibilty of a tech unit down in flames with it. Like Dave I'd love to try one, its so light it would be a pleasure to dive I suspect... would I spent that much on something so restricted- no never, but then I'm not the target market. FWIW My OC buddies who are target market- shallow diving, recreational stuff- thought it was ugly and needed a cover. __________________ www.hugsac.org.uk Beware Fridge Suck
(Offline)

23rd April 2008, 10:15	#18 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,377	Re: Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008 Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) WOB is 1.77 which puts it up with the best. ?? where do you get that number from?? it can be the WOB when breathing from the OC poseidon, but not breathing CC from the unit :-) after you've been looking at WOB tests on rebreathers, you start to have some feeling on WOB just by having a look at the unit paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials... Last edited by paulraymaekers : 23rd April 2008 at 10:17.
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23rd April 2008, 16:37	#19 (permalink)
PaulTG2 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 360	Re: Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008 Hello, Great to see they are replacing the original plastic. After DEMA I posted that the plastic didn't look like it would survive normal diving much less rental equipment treatment. The condition of the show unit at DEMA and that in the photo above supports that position. Good to see them engineering a more durable unit. I hope that effort includes the BOV. If they can solve the cheap plastic problem and the prepacked scrubber issues (which I see primarily as cost in a rental environment) they may have a nice unit. The unit has to be able to survive drops and falls without damage. Double the height of the fall it has to survive if it is rental equipment. -paul
(Online)

24th April 2008, 01:10	#20 (permalink)
OceanOpportunity for a world of water Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Providence, RI USA Posts: 479	Re: Cis Lunar MK6 at Boot 2008 Quote: (Originally Posted by theDiver) I think you have misunderstood who this rebreather is made for. This product is not made for the hardcore technical divers, it is made for recreational diving, for recreational divers. It is a product for the type of divers, who has a non technical dive education, dive with single tank, don't do deco dives. Just playing devil's advocate on this (again)...but having said the above, why do they need a rebreather at all? Longer no-D times, well maybe.... __________________ Michael Lombardi Oceans of Opportunity www.oceanopportunity.com Elected Director, Society for Human Performance in Extreme Environments MN'07, The Explorers Club Project Manager, Diving a Dream
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