MK6 now launched....

PaulTG2

Hello,

A very interesting discussions.

I was at DEMA today and took a good look at this rebreather -- because of the names involved as well as the overall unique concepts. It is nice to see outside the box thinking.

My first concern with the durability of the unit. It seems the antithesis of Cis Lunar and Posiden . It just doesn't look like it can take many knocks. The plastic seems thin -- along the line of home appliance, an inexpensive clock you hange on the wall, and other things that are intended to be seen more than used. I mean this literally -- it looks like it was designed by the same engineers -- with ridges around the screw holds because the tab isn't going to hold it. I just don't get the impression that it could take a normal boat trip or typical gear handling.

This included the BOV handle -- which was pretty typical of the overall design. One of the display units already had that broken off. It was probably 1/8 inch thick fairly hard plastic. In addition the thin plastic cover on the BOV was already loose.

The BOV is a nice overall design, compact and neat -- if again, not very rugged. But it certainly seemed to have a pretty narrow passage. I expect the WOB through it is acceptable for 40m, but I wouldn't want to be working against a current with it. Typical Posiden hoses so not available everywhere if something happens.

I like the computer. I expect they were able to make it so thin because they filled it with oil. Again, not certain how the long thin computer will do on a dive boat where people are catching things between or under tanks.


On the plus side... super compact, super simple, seems to be a nice concept. I'm not certain if what is lacking, outside of the overall construction, is more because we don't fully understand the new approaches or if they really are lacking. Time will tell. As mentioned by someone earlier, it is either a brilliant design or a horrible, horrible mistake. I am not certain I could way which.

--p

Louby Lou

Right then we were given a little more information when we went back a second time.. and I'm sorry to say I'm still not convinced.

Whilst, yes they may have hit the commercial nail on the head with a relatively inexpensive unit that is relatively simple to use and without the ins and outs associated with the other units out there on the market... We were told that the requirements for diving the unit were no pre-existing formal qualifications would be required, that anyone over the age of 15 who could swim 250m(?) would be able to go straight into their diving career on the unit.

The plastic canister does not look like it would stand the severe hammering that I know some of you guys would be giving it, should you be using it. It seems flimsy and dare I say it, thrown together; personally it doesn't look finished and is still in prototype phase. We were told that the unit is going to be used on an expedition in the coming year or so, to be used in anger on some serious dives... How it lives up to being put through its paces in the world of expedition units would be very interesting to follow.

One other thing I couldn't get my head round was being told that the unit would be able to go to significant depths (I can't remember exactly what) and could host a number of gas variations including heliox, trimix etc. Now call me silly or a girl, but if I was doing the type of dives that involved these sorts of gas mixes, I'd want to have some form of manual ability to fly my unit, more than 2 cells, and not have to rely on a rechargeable battery pack (don't get me started on rechargeable batteries, we've all heard the arguments for and against them on various lists).

I think the main thing the unit has in its favour is its weight, yes its nice and light and can be stripped down and taken as carryon. The backplate harness can be used with any of their different setups, but we're not sure if other wings could be used......

We've taken a lot of pictures of the unit, which we'll get resized and uploaded in the morning and then let you guys tell us a bit more of what you think. I have to say from talking to people at the show today, there is an air of disappointment; but we may all be taken by surprise and it might be the best thing since sliced bread, but for me I'm not going to hold my breath and I'll admit I'm gobsmacked and disillusioned with the whole thing....

Sorry

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schford

Very interesting presentation from Bill Stone that we recorded for you all.

We also have a one on one interview with Bill Stone tomorrow when he talks through the unit and answers questions exclusively for Rebreather World.

The guys have turned a lot of things on the head - I have some questions for Bill which I will cover tomorrow, some of it looks interesting, some of it I need convincing - but I am sure this is the first unit that really tries to crack the recreational Rebreather market, if it goes well - we could see some real volume sold.

Stuart

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pabusk

It's worse, it's a 140bar max tank so 420 liters max.

Mdemon

Actually, I think the market they are going for is not just recreational, but rental.

Dive shops can afford $5k for a simple unit. On the assumption that this does its job and gets divers back in one piece, a business will be at a distinct advantage in places like the Red Sea where they can offer long dives with minimal deco to non-technical divers.

If it does its job flawlessly, and no Rebreather has so far, then this is the path to RB diving from scratch which people have been discussing recently.

One presumes that this is the "nitrox" unit and the next progression is to a "trimix" unit, in the same way that we currently go from a "nitrox" card to a "trimix" one. This would seem to make sense, swapping CCard progression for actual hardware progression.

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lizardland

That worked well in the past... Anyone remember the ads in Aquacorps? Buy the loop and rent the rest of the rebreather from the extensive network of centres round the world...

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caveseeker7

I do! The brilliance of the CCR2000.

Pretty much what Dräger was hoping for with the Ray ...

Would go nice with PADI Resort CCR Course, and without being too sarcastic,
the two will work together well and may just bring the success to the unit.

Scary thought, though, now I won't be able to sleep tonight.

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PaulTG2

I can't see the Mk VI lasting a week in a rental environment. It just isn't rugged enough.

-p

gibbogeo

I noticed that the diving environment seems quite "conservative".

Every time something new appears, the same discussions arises.

I still remember when, in Italy at least, to became a certificate diver you had to pass an exam to be granted the permission to attend the course. Course that was 6 month long, the first 3 where swimming, free diving in a swimming pool, then one month of mouth to mouth breathing exercise with some fat mustached dive buddy on the side of the poll and finally you were allowed to touch the bottles, but without BCD. At the final exam you had to perform some exercise with the grace of Esther Williams or you had to make again everything the next year (obviously after a new exam of admission to the course).

Then Padi arrived in Italy... And we discovered that for an open water diver all this exercise, all the dances (3 kind of renversement) were not so necessary. But still now, after 25 years, some people still blame the PADI style.

The approach i see now is the same i saw with the computer and the BCD: all tools too dangerous for not serious divers.

And with mixed gas dive they was the same diffidence.

With the rebreather? "it will kill you all!" Is the usual quote i got from 1998.

But this approach of a modular, easy to use, prepacked, low intervention tool, look to me a really good idea.

I fully agree with you that with our actual tools, there is no place for idiot.

But this seems to be a complete different approach to the CCR idea.

I don't know if this specific machine works well or if it have problems, but i think this is the path that the industry will take to reach a market that is worth to serve.

I will not buy one of them. I do different kind of dives that the ones this machine can perform. But i understand why this machine have been built.

The only thing that worries my is that i hope the artisan will continue to produce their few jewels for the small market of people like me.

Sten

A frend working with procurment of automotive plastic parts had a look at this Rebreather at the Gothenburg preview. His opinion was that some of the parts were from production tooling and some from prototype tooling. So a production model will probably have a different finish, and in some areas different resins.

The scrubber housing is an aluminum tube with plastic ends.

/Sten

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