Web pics and copyright?

paul g neilsen · 22nd May 2006, 10:57

Hi Everyone,

For someone who has only been on the forum for a few days we have got off to a good start (or perhaps a bad one!!)

Honestly all jokes aside, we obtained this photograph from a search on the internet and to be honest with you I can't remember what we typed in be it 'diving photos', 'underwater photos' or whatever. But we found this photograph, and to our knowledge it was a great photo with no licensing attached.

On the morning of Friday 19th May we received an email from Andy Mell stating that this was his photo and looking at his flickr photo site I can see it carries the information regarding the photographer, the photograph as I found it did not carry this information. This is for you to believe or disbelieve.

We replied immediately to Andy's email privately and apologised and immediately removed the photograph form our site.

Once again Andy, we apologise for any inconvenience and disrespect it was unintentional.

Regards,

Paul

Andy M · 22nd May 2006, 11:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by paul g neilsen)

On the morning of Friday 19th May we received an email from Andy Mell stating that this was his photo and looking at his flickr photo site I can see it carries the information regarding the photographer, the photograph as I found it did not carry this information.

Hi Paul. Yes, got your email, thanks very much. I have been away this weekend so havnt got to replying yet. If you know where you got the photo from I'd be very interested.

This thread was opened as a general discussion of how to prevent photos getting copied across the web and wasnt about any particular instance. I think we decided that the best way, is to deface the photo with a copyright notice/URL printed on it. A great shame as it spoils photos, but its unfortunately the only way to reliably retain the source information. What we really need is non-removable EXIF information, which you cant remove without losing the picture... HDCP for still images anybody?

I dont appreciate the thread being hijacked for discussions about asians and so on, but hey, thats what happens in forums. Can we end that particular discussion please...

Thanks

Andy

***caveseeker7*** · 22nd May 2006, 14:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M)

I dont appreciate the thread being hijacked for discussions about asians and so on, but hey, thats what happens in forums. Can we end that particular discussion please...

Good idea Andy, lets stop with the people bashing.

Simple · 22nd May 2006, 15:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by paul g neilsen)

But we found this photograph, and to our knowledge it was a great photo with no licensing attached.

IANAL...

This is the problem. If you find a photo with NO LICENCING INFORMATION ATTACHED, you are not allowed to use it. You must get permission. Even if that wasn't the law (it is as I understand it), it is common courtesy. If you can't find the owner, to bad. Find another shot.

It is irresponsible to do anything else. At least you were willing to fix the problem on the back side.

Simple · 22nd May 2006, 16:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M)

What we really need is non-removable EXIF information, which you cant remove without losing the picture... HDCP for still images anybody?

<rant>
Just a technical note. You are talking about DRM. DRM will never prevent this and takes away your rights as a consumer/customer. HDCP (for example) won't prevent copyright infringment in any meaningful way (it has already been cracked and can be bypassed with some simple equipment). The same will be true of ANY DRM system. Anyone who claims otherwise, is LIEING to you. Technical solutions can not solve this problem.

In the end, DRM assumes the consumer is a criminal. The end result of this technical process is legislation (which some think can solve the problem) that will make it illegal to modify either the computer hardware or software on a computer YOU own. This, in theory will prevent you from using a hack to bypass DRM. As a DIY person (computers, dive gear, cars, etc), that is a scary thought.

DRM takes away consumer rights in trade for the illision of protecting the material from theaft. Anyone else noticing the patern of traiding important rights for the illusion of protection in our society????
</rant>

what2be · 22nd May 2006, 18:11

[quote]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

All asians are the same - yes we get it.

Cambodia? Vietnam? Laos? Thailand? Borneo? Sri Lanka? - what about the large population of Indonesia?---- all the same? all overfishing?, all just like the develped nations of Japan China and Taiwan? Funny in 10 years living in Asia Ive never seen a Cambodia or Laos factory ship -LOL!

Okay, Ill eat crow. All aisan countries was a unneccesary blanket statement.
There are plenty of smaller countries like the ones you mentioned that dont have factory type ships.

Quote:

Do you know what the average daily income is in Cambodia? Vietnam? Ache? Do you know where 99.% of their fish is caught by wooden small family run fishing boats?

Yes, and I didnt have those in mind obviously when I was posting.

what2be · 22nd May 2006, 18:24

<SNIP>

I agree this thread has gone way off topic. I'm done posting about it.

***schford*** · 22nd May 2006, 19:14

[quote=what2be]

Quote:

Okay, Ill eat crow. All aisan countries was a unneccesary blanket statement.
There are plenty of smaller countries like the ones you mentioned that dont have factory type ships.

Didnt you see Andy and Stefans comment - stop going off topic.

SINUS · 23rd May 2006, 03:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by what2be)

<SNIP>

I agree this thread has gone way off topic. I'm done posting about it.

I am late,wish I have read it.

Regards

Wei Lan

Warren_L · 24th May 2006, 20:02

I've gone the watermarking route myself. It's actually not that bad if you can do it relatively subtlely.

22nd May 2006, 10:57	#41 (permalink)
paul g neilsen New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Prism Topaz Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 4	Re: Web pics and copyright? Hi Everyone, For someone who has only been on the forum for a few days we have got off to a good start (or perhaps a bad one!!) Honestly all jokes aside, we obtained this photograph from a search on the internet and to be honest with you I can't remember what we typed in be it 'diving photos', 'underwater photos' or whatever. But we found this photograph, and to our knowledge it was a great photo with no licensing attached. On the morning of Friday 19th May we received an email from Andy Mell stating that this was his photo and looking at his flickr photo site I can see it carries the information regarding the photographer, the photograph as I found it did not carry this information. This is for you to believe or disbelieve. We replied immediately to Andy's email privately and apologised and immediately removed the photograph form our site. Once again Andy, we apologise for any inconvenience and disrespect it was unintentional. Regards, Paul
(Offline)

22nd May 2006, 11:23	#42 (permalink)
Andy M Dude Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 424	Re: Web pics and copyright? Quote: (Originally Posted by paul g neilsen) On the morning of Friday 19th May we received an email from Andy Mell stating that this was his photo and looking at his flickr photo site I can see it carries the information regarding the photographer, the photograph as I found it did not carry this information. Hi Paul. Yes, got your email, thanks very much. I have been away this weekend so havnt got to replying yet. If you know where you got the photo from I'd be very interested. This thread was opened as a general discussion of how to prevent photos getting copied across the web and wasnt about any particular instance. I think we decided that the best way, is to deface the photo with a copyright notice/URL printed on it. A great shame as it spoils photos, but its unfortunately the only way to reliably retain the source information. What we really need is non-removable EXIF information, which you cant remove without losing the picture... HDCP for still images anybody? I dont appreciate the thread being hijacked for discussions about asians and so on, but hey, thats what happens in forums. Can we end that particular discussion please... Thanks Andy __________________ Know your PO2 at all times
(Offline)

22nd May 2006, 14:23	#43 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,498	Re: Web pics and copyright? Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M) I dont appreciate the thread being hijacked for discussions about asians and so on, but hey, thats what happens in forums. Can we end that particular discussion please... Good idea Andy, lets stop with the people bashing. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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22nd May 2006, 15:41	#44 (permalink)
Simple New Member Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 12	Re: Web pics and copyright? Quote: (Originally Posted by paul g neilsen) But we found this photograph, and to our knowledge it was a great photo with no licensing attached. IANAL... This is the problem. If you find a photo with NO LICENCING INFORMATION ATTACHED, you are not allowed to use it. You must get permission. Even if that wasn't the law (it is as I understand it), it is common courtesy. If you can't find the owner, to bad. Find another shot. It is irresponsible to do anything else. At least you were willing to fix the problem on the back side. Last edited by Simple : 22nd May 2006 at 16:24.
(Offline)

22nd May 2006, 16:07	#45 (permalink)
Simple New Member Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 12	Re: Web pics and copyright? Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M) What we really need is non-removable EXIF information, which you cant remove without losing the picture... HDCP for still images anybody? <rant> Just a technical note. You are talking about DRM. DRM will never prevent this and takes away your rights as a consumer/customer. HDCP (for example) won't prevent copyright infringment in any meaningful way (it has already been cracked and can be bypassed with some simple equipment). The same will be true of ANY DRM system. Anyone who claims otherwise, is LIEING to you. Technical solutions can not solve this problem. In the end, DRM assumes the consumer is a criminal. The end result of this technical process is legislation (which some think can solve the problem) that will make it illegal to modify either the computer hardware or software on a computer YOU own. This, in theory will prevent you from using a hack to bypass DRM. As a DIY person (computers, dive gear, cars, etc), that is a scary thought. DRM takes away consumer rights in trade for the illision of protecting the material from theaft. Anyone else noticing the patern of traiding important rights for the illusion of protection in our society???? </rant>
(Offline)

22nd May 2006, 18:11	#46 (permalink)
what2be New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 94	Re: Web pics and copyright? [quote] Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) All asians are the same - yes we get it. Cambodia? Vietnam? Laos? Thailand? Borneo? Sri Lanka? - what about the large population of Indonesia?---- all the same? all overfishing?, all just like the develped nations of Japan China and Taiwan? Funny in 10 years living in Asia Ive never seen a Cambodia or Laos factory ship -LOL! Okay, Ill eat crow. All aisan countries was a unneccesary blanket statement. There are plenty of smaller countries like the ones you mentioned that dont have factory type ships. Quote: Do you know what the average daily income is in Cambodia? Vietnam? Ache? Do you know where 99.% of their fish is caught by wooden small family run fishing boats? Yes, and I didnt have those in mind obviously when I was posting. __________________ "If I die with any money at all in my bank account I know I miscalculated"
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22nd May 2006, 18:24	#47 (permalink)
what2be New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 94	Re: Web pics and copyright? <SNIP> I agree this thread has gone way off topic. I'm done posting about it. __________________ "If I die with any money at all in my bank account I know I miscalculated" Last edited by caveseeker7 : 22nd May 2006 at 20:03. Reason: Offensive and against TOS
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22nd May 2006, 19:14	#48 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,687	Re: Web pics and copyright? [quote=what2be] Quote: Okay, Ill eat crow. All aisan countries was a unneccesary blanket statement. There are plenty of smaller countries like the ones you mentioned that dont have factory type ships. Didnt you see Andy and Stefans comment - stop going off topic. __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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23rd May 2006, 03:54	#49 (permalink)
SINUS Rebreather Aficionado Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: 137km from equator Posts: 199	Re: Web pics and copyright? Quote: (Originally Posted by what2be) <SNIP> I agree this thread has gone way off topic. I'm done posting about it. I am late,wish I have read it. Regards Wei Lan __________________ "Silence Is Always Beautiful"
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24th May 2006, 20:02	#50 (permalink)
Warren_L CCR Photographer Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 62	Re: Web pics and copyright? I've gone the watermarking route myself. It's actually not that bad if you can do it relatively subtlely. __________________ http://www.warrenlophotography.com
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