Newbie questions: Nikon lens ?

decoweenie

Questions from a photo-weenie...

I am in the process of getting some U/W DSLR photo equipment to start some serious learning for real this time. And was recommended to get either the Nikon 10.5mm f2.8 or 12-24mm f4 lens since I am only interested in taking wreck, cave, reef photos (no macros, for now).

So I checked some prices on-line... Nikon 10.5mm f2.8 is ranging from $600 (B&H) onward, 12-24mm f4 from $900.

I can't afford getting both, and must chose one. So...

1. Which lens is better for general use ? Please expand on why ?
2. Should I stick with Nikon (more money) or are there alternatives (for less money) of relative same performances ? What are the trade-offs ?
3. Are there better sources for getting these items (cheaper than B&H) ?
4. Are there different lens type of the same optical specs - like manual and auto focus lens ? If I want lens to go on the D100, what should I get ?
5. Best sources to learn how to use DSLR ? I already know about wetpixel.com and etc...
6. Any other info that I should have asked ?

For background info, I will be using the equipment in the Red Sea in the next foreseable future (i.e. good viz, bright ambient light), but could be diving in dark environment a few years down the road if we move again.

I realize these are very basic newbie digital photo questions, but I should have accummulated credits over the years answering basic newbie rebreather questions...

Ryan

I own both of those lenses, but they sit on my shelf and gather dust.

I exclusively use a Tokina 10-17 Fisheye Zoom for wide angle shooting now. It covers the entire range I want (essentially between the 10.5 & 12-24 @ 12mm).

Try it. You'll like it. Price has nothing to do with my preference for this lens, it is strictly based on optics and utility.

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Johnny Christensen

Hi Phi

By general use, do you mean underwater ?
Or are you also listing topside photography in that requirement?

If strictly underwater, then the 10,5mm will allow you to get close and also has good sharpness in the corners. But being a fisheye lens, the image will bend towards the edge. Underwater you can get away with a lot, but topside photo will instantly show a unnatural look of the scenery.

12-24mm I have heard complaints of really soft edges unless you get large highquality domeport and experiment with different diopters.
12-24mm will produce nice looking results when shot topside.

You mention D100, so I'm guessing you got your eyes set on a secondhand package of camera and housing.
The earlier models of digital cameras such as D100 had a somewhat limited dynamic range. If there is a big difference in the lightlevels, such as a sunspot in top of picture and the reef in the bottom. It usually results in the sunspot being completly blown out and having all sorts of discolouration.
If you are doing 99% of your shooting in bright warmwater conditions, that's a bit of a problem. It would limit the kind of pictures you could be attempting to make.
I would suggest going for a secondhand D70 package, they handle highlights better.

My suggestion for digital photo; get the best lens you can possibly afford, remember you can bring that one with you to the next camera body.

Get a decent camera body, but know it is obsolete two days after you bought it. Canon & Nikon are constantly brewing on something better.

A housing of some sorts, good housings start with Ikelite and upwards.
Be really picky about the quality of the domeport.

One or two strobes on long arms. You don't need huge expencive units that has the output of a nuclear blast. Get some that has a good trackrecord of not flooding and allow you to manually adjust the output in 3-4 increments. More increments are better, but if you are on a budget...
I use Sea & Sea since 1994, they work without complaints.
TTL is a waste of time and money if shooting wideangle, manual is still the way to go IMHO.

Good luck.

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Wreckphotography from the cold north

decoweenie

Thanks a lot for the info so far, guys.

Yes, I am looking at a couple of second-hand Aquatica / D100 packages. They are reasonable priced so I will be able to have some redundancies in both housing and camera while learning... Do I really need 2 housings even if they are really good prices ?

I have no interest in surface photography and only in taking u/w photos. So I take that 10.5mm fish eye is the way to go if I want to go with Nikon. Otherwise, go with Ryan's suggestion on the zoom lens.

As far as strobes, I have 2 x Ikelite 225, 2 x SS-300 and a few of the UL arms.

The only extra things I believe that I need are:

• 8" dome port
• dome shade for appropriate lens

Anything else other than some skills and a copy of PhotoShop ?

Johnny Christensen

Aquatica makes good quality AFAIK, so no real need for redundant housing.
However I don't recall how the Aquatica D100 housing is made.
Check if it's mechanical or electronics controls of the camera. I would shy away if it's the electronic type.
Given the fact that D100 is an older camera, I would buy one as a spare now. Prices are next to nothing.
That way if something happens with your primary camera, trow it in the bin and use the backup. Faster and cheaper than getting it fixed by Nikon.

10,5mm is a standart lens, so domeport and possible focus gear is a stock item.

10-17mm will give you more range, but it depends if you can use the zoom function with your housing of choice?

Photoshop is a very capable program, but Nikon Capture NX is easier to work with. Price is also very attractive compared to Photoshop.

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Wreckphotography from the cold north

dlh

I might suggest that you skip the D100 altogether and look for a used D70 setup. The D70 is superior to the D100 in almost all respects, and there are tons of them on the used market since the D200 and now D300 has come out. Image quality is similar (slight edge to D70) and the electronics are much faster with about 2 years of improvements from the D100.

The Tokina 10-17 is the hot WA lens these days, but I'd put a word in for the Sigma 15FE as well. It's a low cost, high quality lens that works GREAT. The Nikon 10.5 is a great lens as well, but the lighting can be a chalenge.

Add a Nikon 60mm Macro lens to your setup as well for those times you venture out of the caves.

If you can find a used D70 / Ikelite housing package you will be very satisfied. Aquatica is good too, but a little more expensive.

Dave

decoweenie

Do I get the feeling that no one likes the D100 here ?

I prefer the Aquatica housing over Ikelite for the depth since the shallowest wreck we dive on the week-end is 72m/240ft, but that might change when I move.

Thanks again for the info, guys...

jradomski

Out of all the lenses I have ever tried my favorite so far is the olympus 7-14mm.. Its onl for 4/3 cameras but is bar far one of the best lenses I have tried for any camera.. Some of the pictures I have see with it (even using an old e1) look far better than anything I have seen even on high end Nikons..

My next camera is probably the e-3.. right now I use an e-500.. usually with the 14-54mm lens, but when I really want the best I borrow a 7-14 from a friend.. Over the full range of the lense there is almost no distortion.. Any mag that has every tested the lens has rated it nearly perfect..

BTW my friend works for B&H and with the choice of gear he has at his disposal he chooses and olympus camera with the 7-14 lens

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Joe Radomski
CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer
ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10

All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.

Johnny Christensen

Well, it was a good digital camera for it's day. Where filmcameras can be shot for a long time with really good quality, when you put a modern film inside. The same can not be said about their digital counterparts, there you get the whole package with imaging capability and everything. The quality is locked into what they where delivering in the time of production.

And digital have been taking gigant steps forward in the last 5 years. IMHO they became 98% equal to film quality with the introduction of D200.
I tried at various times the performance of D1, D100, D70 & D70s.

D70 and D70s got me seriously thinking about going digital as they where almost there in regards to image quality. But I kept shooting my filmcameras and waited for digital cameras in the realistic pricerange to mature a little more. I made the switch when I tried the D200 two years ago.

Just had a look at the Aquatica homepage and the housing for D100 has mechanical controls, thats a big plus in my book.
It seems I got it confused with what Light & Motion was doing.
If you are going to take it deep, then a aluminium housing is the way to go. Plastic housings will start to develop stress cracks over time, quite like the Classic Inspo handset.

From what I have seen others do. Provided you are shooting your camera on a regular basis and are serious about analyzing your pictures afterwards, both the keepers and the ones for the bin. It takes one or two years to go from a newbie to producing really pleasing results. That's the beauty about digtal cameras, you benefit hugely from having your shooting data stored.
So it's a matter of time before you will start to hit the limitations of the camera, rather than the limitations of your knowledge and creativity.
If starting with a highperformance camera, that time before you feel the need to move on will be longer, compared to starting with an lower performance.

When buying a secondhand camera package now, you should do this knowingly that you will be the last owner of that equipment. In two years time there is absolutly no marked for selling D100 and only a small marked for the D70.
Their value is greater to you, than the value they can collect in a sale.

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Wreckphotography from the cold north

PeteS

1 General use? Probably the zoom lens.
2 I use Nikon lenses (10.5mm and 60mm micro) and am very happy with them.
3 17 street photo dot com in New York always gave me a good price.
4 Auto focus.
5 Get out and use it. Feed back is instant! The more you take the more you learn.
6 Everything. Just look back at the answer to #5!

The 10.5mm Nikon lens is a really nice lens to use underwater. On the surface it's a p-o-s. You can get really close to the subject and still get it all in. Just watch where the straight lines are in the picture, because they won't be straight after! Just try to arrange it that straight lines go through the centre of the frame - not always possible though. And get some REEEEAAALLLY long strobe arms. If you have the camera body in front of your face and you can reach the strobe to align it they are NOT long enough. A yard / 900mm is good. Strobes or strobe flash in the picture can be a problem with wide lenses. Move the strobe as wide as possible and behind the plane of the camera. I use 2 strobes so that I can do this without too many shadows.

My thoughts on zooms are that they are a bit of a compromise. Just make up your mind that you are taking wide shots or macro shots and get on with it. And the best Macro shots ALWAYS turn up when you have the 10.5mm on, and the whale shark will ALWAYS nudge you when you have the 60mm macro on! It's the natural way of things.

I have other opinions, just ask....... for example JPEG or RAW......

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Pete S.

http://www.steggle.co.nz

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