Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics!

Dimman · 26th June 2008, 06:02

Haha.... The flexible manifold is a... decanting hose :P Works very nice! My idea is that you have to be able to evacuate it sometimes to get the bottles of - and on mine there is an evacuation valve. I am gonna look into more ways to make it safer, so that I dont trigger it by mistake for example. I looked into LOLA valves from Golem and they were about double the price then ordering directly from LOLA, at least here in Europe. FLexible manifold can then be made of a decanting hose where you could also swep the original hose for a steel one made to order, its not expensive at all and you could use the connections from the decanting hose, its standard manometer unf fittings.

Mike - did I understand you right, you are going to have a manifold but still keep O2 in the right tank...? Couse you said you want to shut them down at the same time but mentioned an isolator. How is that gonna work? My reason for putting the adv on the right post is that it is "primary" on my oc rigg and that I want to shut it down when I go down to 6 meters to validate the cells but still want to use the BOV which is gonna be on the left side.

I have isolators on both sides - they are built into the taps. I looked into having an isolator on one side as rb80 has and found out that keeping a protruding piece of steel pipe on one side creates a very nice leverge point I dont really like to have there in tight places in wrecks and stuff like that. So I went for the solution with two isolators in the taps, we`ll see how that works - I am maybe overdoing it, but it has worked nicely so far.

Kevrumbo - yeah, Mark was an inspiration... of a sort

It was nice to see his rig, I have been thinking about something like that for as long as I´ve been considering to buy a rebreather. I have also seen some german KISS built in rb80 style and talked a lot to rb80 divers. The main reason for building it like I did for me is possibility to share gas in the manner I consider safe and simple and acess to a lot of bailout just upon a simple turn of the bov valve instead of trying to find right bottle on my side. I guess its just my oc training that kicks in - it is heavier and more cumbersome than a standard Rebreather configuration, but I hope safer as well.

Johan - we should really meet some day and discuss this stuff in more detail

single tank numpty · 26th June 2008, 07:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dimman)

Mike - did I understand you right, you are going to have a manifold but still keep O2 in the right tank...? Couse you said you want to shut them down at the same time but mentioned an isolator. How is that gonna work?

I'm not even going to dignify that with a reply, take more water with it mate.

What I mean't was that if you are carrying the oxygen on the left as a sling (As we both will be) and you have the ADV on the left. THen in the event of some kind of blow out that results in the loop filling up with unknown gas, you can only turn one tank off at a time. If ADV is on the right, then right hand closes that off and left hand closes the O2 off.

You can also have access to BOV if required during such a problem.

What make are the valves?

Dimman · 26th June 2008, 08:36

Sorry Mike - it want meant as an insult haha

I am new to this stuff and was just a bit confused due to early morning there. Now I am with you, nice thinking. I thought you told me you were gonna use an O2 sling as well.

One more good reason for having the ADV on the right post is that as I said you could breath from the loop BOV during the descent to 6 meters, validate the cell reading and then switch to ccr and open the right tap. Are there any negative sides or advantages of having it on the left side?

The valves are made my LOLA, a company in Czeck Republic. Golem Gear importes them to the US but LOLA also sells stuff directly through their web shop. Unfortunatly, a lot of it is in czeck

But some is in english and they answer mail decently fast. The part about the valves is incomplete in english, there is a link below to that part in czeck with pictures of the valves.

Lola.cz - Potápìèské vybavení
Lola.cz - Potápìèské vybavení

single tank numpty · 26th June 2008, 09:50

DO you know if the valves have standard parts or lola specific parts?

Dimman · 26th June 2008, 10:13

I am actually checking this now... I dont want to take apart mine now, and the czecks did not answer this in their last mail

They do have special spare part kits on their webiste but those could as well hold standard components.

I bought mine together with Anders Puranen - he should know, he usually takes things apart

jaap · 26th June 2008, 12:45

Hi there Dmitri!

As I told you before, your rig looks nice! Not sparing any time jumping to heavy modifications of your new Rebreather ;-)

But tinkering alot also means your more likely to encounter unforseen or "new" problems.

Listen to the comments about the value of being able to rapidly shut down both O2 and dil ("BOOM" scenario). Sure you run your dil/O2 from larger than average cylinders so perhaps your have a little extra margin (if properly filled). But that double isolator dil manifold also brings the number of valves up from the regular 1+1 to 4+1! Even 5+1 if you feed the dil from a sling!

Lots of valves to turn... its lucky you take so many "DIR"-courses perfecting the valve drills...;-)

Anyway, so you plan on feeding the dil from a sling too later on when its time for trimix right?

Since you want to avoid taking gas from and having to top up the big trimix backgas I guess you would prefer to take all dil from the sling during normal operation? Then read the threads on a higher IP for the "priority" source extra carefully. Also are you spending time reading all the threads (quite alot of recent ones) on here about how to connect offboard gasses to a Rebreather? Read them carefully!

Don't know much about the Pelagian O2 needle/bypass but I would be concerned about build up of salt & silt from minor water intrusions if you feed it from offboard (Already had it happen right?). The nasty thing is even if the O2-needle/bypass is normal during predive a contaminated valve could have a much greater risk of suddenly stopped flow or dramatically increased flow if the contaminants starts moving. Of course this is not much more than a problem if you pay attention.

Having the O2-valve/bypass on a sling cylinder feeding a: hose-QC-hose-Rebreather as we talked about and as I did on my sling-Rebreather's has the upside of always having the valve pressurized even when disconnected from the Rebreather (using doubly shutting QC or non return valves the feed to the Rebreather is also shut when diconnected). Of course the obvious downside is that you cannot feed the pelagian O2-valve from another O2-source if its monted on the sling O2.

But since you Rebreather is an OTS that could easily be solved by simple adding a dry suit inflator valve to the lung of your choice as a simple mulitgas manual bypass. Coupled with having ordinary drysuit hoses on your sling cylinders so they can be hooked up there or be used as suitgas.

Give me some early warning next time your going to Stockholm so we could get some tinkering & dives in.

EDIT: Hmm, this auto thing that writes Rebreather is a little annoying.

Dimman · 26th June 2008, 13:58

Hey mate!

A lot of nice input... I must say that I have not had time to search for hte other threads about off-board gas connection and different fittings for that purpose - I should really do it. Maybe this weekend.

The plan is definitly to feed the machine by trimix from another 40 cf cylinder since doing it in any other way would make the pressure in my bailout doubles drop all the time and then I have to warry about the minimums gas amount constantly coming down on me. I will probably have to anyway sine I presume some bars of my backgas will be used on each dive anyway, but to a much less extent.

You have a good point about the amount of taps

I should come up with a good plan for what I have to turn off and when and then practice a lot - another good point by the way. Deep diving is a long way ahead so its ok to modify a little I guess

As concerning the neddle valve - I do not really share your worries. As you know I had a self-induced failure there where the int-connection screwd itself up with my help and I got the O2 valve open to water for quite some time. I dived with the unit after that and it was seemengly uneffected. Further on - I deliberatly tinkered with the needle during my dives and watched what happens if I put the flow to max. Actually, nothing dramatic. Po2 started to slowly rise as expected. Now, if my po2 meter hung unattended somewhere that could be a problem eventually - but since it is on my arm all the time and I look at it almost constantly in the corner of my eye together with the depth gauge, any sudden changes in the small flow of oxygen would not pose a threat. If blocked, I will just open the needle fully and flush it with a few bursts of oxygen cleaning it. So, neither scenarios you described seem to be a big problem given you know about their possibility.

I am not warried about my inability to feed the machine from another tank either. I have a full 40 cf with O2 with me - should it fail, I bailout. I dont stay on the loop in a stressed situation when it is not functioneing properly. At least its my idea for now.

I will

Coming over to Sthlm next friday late in the evening actually, to take off to Narvik directly on saturday!

johan carlsson · 26th June 2008, 16:44

Hi Dimman.

:-) nice to see your unit.. Fixing and mod. allready... It's looks nice!
You are not as i understand like to kill the Oc-diving.. Still doing Tech2 and all?

My plan is to kill my OC-diving after this..

And the Hevy steel 2x18 cyl is transforming to gas-storage in the basement... :-)
I will as you, bring all my experience of OC saftey and apply on the Rebreather-diving (thugh RB is not knew to me it always a kind of "learing" to dive it)
OC and DIR brings allot of good thinking but not all is always applicible...

DIR= Doing it Rebreather.. ;-)

Yes we have to sit down fore a good look at the units...
See you some day..soon i hope..
Tjenahej

The Helium-Price just vent up allot here in Sweden... Hurray fore Rebreather.

Dimman · 26th June 2008, 17:54

I think tech 2 will give me loads of usefull skills, even if I dive Rebreather

I am half way through it anyway...

No, I notice that not everything goes. Haha. I had a huge shock when Roger took off my backup lights from my d-rings and told me I cant have them there any more becouse of the counter-lungs

Like wtf, I have had them there forever! Where am I gonna have them now. Buhuu!

How much did the helium price go up? Kind of expected. Though may be not. I guess they are gonna pump a lot more natural gas now when the oil is running hot - and that means more helium.

26th June 2008, 06:02	#21 (permalink)
Dimman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 11	Re: Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics! Haha.... The flexible manifold is a... decanting hose :P Works very nice! My idea is that you have to be able to evacuate it sometimes to get the bottles of - and on mine there is an evacuation valve. I am gonna look into more ways to make it safer, so that I dont trigger it by mistake for example. I looked into LOLA valves from Golem and they were about double the price then ordering directly from LOLA, at least here in Europe. FLexible manifold can then be made of a decanting hose where you could also swep the original hose for a steel one made to order, its not expensive at all and you could use the connections from the decanting hose, its standard manometer unf fittings. Mike - did I understand you right, you are going to have a manifold but still keep O2 in the right tank...? Couse you said you want to shut them down at the same time but mentioned an isolator. How is that gonna work? My reason for putting the adv on the right post is that it is "primary" on my oc rigg and that I want to shut it down when I go down to 6 meters to validate the cells but still want to use the BOV which is gonna be on the left side. I have isolators on both sides - they are built into the taps. I looked into having an isolator on one side as rb80 has and found out that keeping a protruding piece of steel pipe on one side creates a very nice leverge point I dont really like to have there in tight places in wrecks and stuff like that. So I went for the solution with two isolators in the taps, we`ll see how that works - I am maybe overdoing it, but it has worked nicely so far. Kevrumbo - yeah, Mark was an inspiration... of a sort It was nice to see his rig, I have been thinking about something like that for as long as I´ve been considering to buy a rebreather. I have also seen some german KISS built in rb80 style and talked a lot to rb80 divers. The main reason for building it like I did for me is possibility to share gas in the manner I consider safe and simple and acess to a lot of bailout just upon a simple turn of the bov valve instead of trying to find right bottle on my side. I guess its just my oc training that kicks in - it is heavier and more cumbersome than a standard Rebreather configuration, but I hope safer as well. Johan - we should really meet some day and discuss this stuff in more detail Last edited by Dimman : 26th June 2008 at 06:13.
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26th June 2008, 07:20	#22 (permalink)
single tank numpty New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philippines, 10 meters from the sea :-) Posts: 31	Re: Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics! Quote: (Originally Posted by Dimman) Mike - did I understand you right, you are going to have a manifold but still keep O2 in the right tank...? Couse you said you want to shut them down at the same time but mentioned an isolator. How is that gonna work? I'm not even going to dignify that with a reply, take more water with it mate. What I mean't was that if you are carrying the oxygen on the left as a sling (As we both will be) and you have the ADV on the left. THen in the event of some kind of blow out that results in the loop filling up with unknown gas, you can only turn one tank off at a time. If ADV is on the right, then right hand closes that off and left hand closes the O2 off. You can also have access to BOV if required during such a problem. What make are the valves? Last edited by single tank numpty : 26th June 2008 at 07:23.
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26th June 2008, 08:36	#23 (permalink)
Dimman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 11	Re: Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics! Sorry Mike - it want meant as an insult haha I am new to this stuff and was just a bit confused due to early morning there. Now I am with you, nice thinking. I thought you told me you were gonna use an O2 sling as well. One more good reason for having the ADV on the right post is that as I said you could breath from the loop BOV during the descent to 6 meters, validate the cell reading and then switch to ccr and open the right tap. Are there any negative sides or advantages of having it on the left side? The valves are made my LOLA, a company in Czeck Republic. Golem Gear importes them to the US but LOLA also sells stuff directly through their web shop. Unfortunatly, a lot of it is in czeck But some is in english and they answer mail decently fast. The part about the valves is incomplete in english, there is a link below to that part in czeck with pictures of the valves. Lola.cz - Potápìèské vybavení Lola.cz - Potápìèské vybavení
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26th June 2008, 09:50	#24 (permalink)
single tank numpty New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philippines, 10 meters from the sea :-) Posts: 31	Re: Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics! DO you know if the valves have standard parts or lola specific parts?
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26th June 2008, 10:13	#25 (permalink)
Dimman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 11	Re: Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics! I am actually checking this now... I dont want to take apart mine now, and the czecks did not answer this in their last mail They do have special spare part kits on their webiste but those could as well hold standard components. I bought mine together with Anders Puranen - he should know, he usually takes things apart
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26th June 2008, 12:45	#26 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 445	Re: Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics! Hi there Dmitri! As I told you before, your rig looks nice! Not sparing any time jumping to heavy modifications of your new Rebreather ;-) But tinkering alot also means your more likely to encounter unforseen or "new" problems. Listen to the comments about the value of being able to rapidly shut down both O2 and dil ("BOOM" scenario). Sure you run your dil/O2 from larger than average cylinders so perhaps your have a little extra margin (if properly filled). But that double isolator dil manifold also brings the number of valves up from the regular 1+1 to 4+1! Even 5+1 if you feed the dil from a sling! Lots of valves to turn... its lucky you take so many "DIR"-courses perfecting the valve drills...;-) Anyway, so you plan on feeding the dil from a sling too later on when its time for trimix right? Since you want to avoid taking gas from and having to top up the big trimix backgas I guess you would prefer to take all dil from the sling during normal operation? Then read the threads on a higher IP for the "priority" source extra carefully. Also are you spending time reading all the threads (quite alot of recent ones) on here about how to connect offboard gasses to a Rebreather? Read them carefully! Don't know much about the Pelagian O2 needle/bypass but I would be concerned about build up of salt & silt from minor water intrusions if you feed it from offboard (Already had it happen right?). The nasty thing is even if the O2-needle/bypass is normal during predive a contaminated valve could have a much greater risk of suddenly stopped flow or dramatically increased flow if the contaminants starts moving. Of course this is not much more than a problem if you pay attention. Having the O2-valve/bypass on a sling cylinder feeding a: hose-QC-hose-Rebreather as we talked about and as I did on my sling-Rebreather's has the upside of always having the valve pressurized even when disconnected from the Rebreather (using doubly shutting QC or non return valves the feed to the Rebreather is also shut when diconnected). Of course the obvious downside is that you cannot feed the pelagian O2-valve from another O2-source if its monted on the sling O2. But since you Rebreather is an OTS that could easily be solved by simple adding a dry suit inflator valve to the lung of your choice as a simple mulitgas manual bypass. Coupled with having ordinary drysuit hoses on your sling cylinders so they can be hooked up there or be used as suitgas. Give me some early warning next time your going to Stockholm so we could get some tinkering & dives in. EDIT: Hmm, this auto thing that writes Rebreather is a little annoying. __________________ My initials: JAAP Last edited by jaap : 26th June 2008 at 12:52.
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26th June 2008, 13:58	#27 (permalink)
Dimman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 11	Re: Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics! Hey mate! A lot of nice input... I must say that I have not had time to search for hte other threads about off-board gas connection and different fittings for that purpose - I should really do it. Maybe this weekend. The plan is definitly to feed the machine by trimix from another 40 cf cylinder since doing it in any other way would make the pressure in my bailout doubles drop all the time and then I have to warry about the minimums gas amount constantly coming down on me. I will probably have to anyway sine I presume some bars of my backgas will be used on each dive anyway, but to a much less extent. You have a good point about the amount of taps I should come up with a good plan for what I have to turn off and when and then practice a lot - another good point by the way. Deep diving is a long way ahead so its ok to modify a little I guess As concerning the neddle valve - I do not really share your worries. As you know I had a self-induced failure there where the int-connection screwd itself up with my help and I got the O2 valve open to water for quite some time. I dived with the unit after that and it was seemengly uneffected. Further on - I deliberatly tinkered with the needle during my dives and watched what happens if I put the flow to max. Actually, nothing dramatic. Po2 started to slowly rise as expected. Now, if my po2 meter hung unattended somewhere that could be a problem eventually - but since it is on my arm all the time and I look at it almost constantly in the corner of my eye together with the depth gauge, any sudden changes in the small flow of oxygen would not pose a threat. If blocked, I will just open the needle fully and flush it with a few bursts of oxygen cleaning it. So, neither scenarios you described seem to be a big problem given you know about their possibility. I am not warried about my inability to feed the machine from another tank either. I have a full 40 cf with O2 with me - should it fail, I bailout. I dont stay on the loop in a stressed situation when it is not functioneing properly. At least its my idea for now. I will Coming over to Sthlm next friday late in the evening actually, to take off to Narvik directly on saturday!
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26th June 2008, 16:44	#28 (permalink)
johan carlsson New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other CCR Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Pelagian Other CCR Azimuth Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden / Nynashamn Posts: 44	Re: Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics! Hi Dimman. :-) nice to see your unit.. Fixing and mod. allready... It's looks nice! You are not as i understand like to kill the Oc-diving.. Still doing Tech2 and all? My plan is to kill my OC-diving after this.. And the Hevy steel 2x18 cyl is transforming to gas-storage in the basement... :-) I will as you, bring all my experience of OC saftey and apply on the Rebreather-diving (thugh RB is not knew to me it always a kind of "learing" to dive it) OC and DIR brings allot of good thinking but not all is always applicible... DIR= Doing it Rebreather.. ;-) Yes we have to sit down fore a good look at the units... See you some day..soon i hope.. Tjenahej The Helium-Price just vent up allot here in Sweden... Hurray fore Rebreather. __________________ I'm done playing, geti'ng me a Pelagian..Payed and ordered Better to rule in hell than to serve in heven !! http://hem.bredband.net/gixxer750 http://www.dykarna.nu/?userId=3603
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26th June 2008, 17:54	#29 (permalink)
Dimman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 11	Re: Pelagian Konfigurations?? Pics! I think tech 2 will give me loads of usefull skills, even if I dive Rebreather I am half way through it anyway... No, I notice that not everything goes. Haha. I had a huge shock when Roger took off my backup lights from my d-rings and told me I cant have them there any more becouse of the counter-lungs Like wtf, I have had them there forever! Where am I gonna have them now. Buhuu! How much did the helium price go up? Kind of expected. Though may be not. I guess they are gonna pump a lot more natural gas now when the oil is running hot - and that means more helium.
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