Deepest pogo stick dive shattered

**Gill Envy** · 21st February 2008, 15:08

so I can't imagine i'm the only one wondering how it was for the palagian divers to deal with a manual rebreather at that kind of depth, in particular how you found the combo of depth compensating first stage and adjustable needle valve and maintaining po2 while messing around with a pogo stick... and a camera? please do tell!

g

Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer)

I think what with all the hopping up and down it triggered the OPV in the top of the Inspo lung...

The view from 110m under the arch is amazing but I edited out a lot from the pogo vid to keep it sensibly sized to upload via my dial-up coonection

Gobfish1 · 21st February 2008, 15:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

so I can't imagine i'm the only one wondering how it was for the palagian divers to deal with a manual rebreather at that kind of depth, in particular how you found the combo of depth compensating first stage and adjustable needle valve and maintaining po2 while messing around with a pogo stick... and a camera? please do tell!

g

The man's a guru , you have to pay him if you want to know how,,

Inspired Trainer · 21st February 2008, 17:28

Using a manual rebreather at depth is easier than ECCR - breathability changes more slowly (at depth) and being manual means not worrying about o2 solenoids from the cheapest bidder jamming open and or closed.

The first stages on my pelagian are not depth 'compensating' as you state -you likely mean 'over compensated' though. I would imagine most current first stages are compensating in that they are generally balanced.

Specific choices for regs on such deep dives is discussed during the Trimix Explorer training courses - I love seeing sealed diaphragm 1st stage users turn ashen when they hit 120+ frantically switching to BOV or OC . Recently someones o2 1sts stage or solenoid started vibrating like a jack hammer...snippers were twitching I can tell you but i was on hand with the camera

Their IP soared as we hit 120m and their 'insert speculation' went tachycardic despite their instructor saying it would not.

I spose i practise alot...with 20+ dives between 130-180m in the last 3 months - practise makes you luckier

My choice in software is kind of crucial too

- Decochek

The camera is fairly easy as long as its weighted neutral

safe DIVing and cheers, Mark

jaap · 21st February 2008, 18:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer)

po2 decays very slowly (at depth)

Isn't that a myth?

If the loop volume and pO2 is the same, the loop will contain the same number of O2 molecules regardless of depth. So if the workload is constant, the loop remains closed & ADV is not used the loop should decay in the same manner at any _constant_ depth.

I have no experience of 100+m dives but have heard this comment about slow pO2 decay at depth several times. Could someone explain if its real, perhaps less excertion, pO2-spiking descents and ADV-use makes for this effect?

Or did the comment refer to the tuned O2-flow set so as to make it approach the metabolic rate at target depth?

Inspired Trainer · 21st February 2008, 20:27

Hi Jaap,

breathability changes relatively fast in shallow water and much slower in ze deep.

5% of 1.3 ata = setpoint quick to change at 3m (bags get visibly smaller as you consume the 02)
5% of 16.0 ata = setpoint slow to change at 150m (bags dont shrink so fast

and setpoint is relativley slow to drop

at 3m on pure o2 you drop .5 po2 every breath so need to inject more to maintain the value - this is where needle valve is useful. I use it from 12m and by 3m start to wind it in to avoid hamster mouth

im feverish now after a flight from khartoum (with a load of TB carriers) on monday - when my meds kick in properly ill explain better

if you dont hear then assume the worst

**Gill Envy** · 21st February 2008, 21:55

another way of saying it: regardless of depth, o2 metabolism varies only with metabolic rate, which is relatively minimal, while the gas is getting exponentially denser with depth, making the rate of consumption in mass a smaller and smaller fraction of the molecules in the loop as you go deeper, making the po2, kind of buffered.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the Palagian, in particular the needle valve. it would be cool to see a video of a portion of a dive, showing how much adjustment is typical in the rebreather lab needle valve, the skeptics might relax a bit. Is everything in the delivery system stock on your kit? ie, first stages, needle valve etc.

g

Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer)

Hi Jaap,

po2 decays relatively fast in shallow water and much slower in ze deep.

5% of 1.3 ata = setpoint quick to change at 3m (bags get visibly smaller as you consume the 02)
5% of 16.0 ata = setpoint slow to change at 150m (bags dont shrink so fast

and setpoint is relativley slow to drop

at 3m on pure o2 you drop .5 po2 every breath so need to inject more to maintain the value - this is where needle valve is useful. I use it from 12m and by 3m start to wind it in to avoid hamster mouth

im feverish now after a flight from khartoum (with a load of TB carriers) on monday - when my meds kick in properly ill explain better

if you dont hear then assume the worst

Inspired Trainer · 22nd February 2008, 09:53

Hi Gill,

the needle valve is useful during deco and maybe for very long fixed depth bottom times. In practise in deeper water then my needle will be turned off with just an occasional puff of o2 added manually. back around 12m i will open the valve just to be able to use the add button less.

Rebreatherlab supply (like other manufacturers) first stages that will do the intended job (max 100m) and offer percieved quality/ fashionabilty etc. The 1st stages supplied could be anything but I believe that the end user should be fully aware of any limitations with the choice made - this is done during even a mod 1 training course with me.

Im not a believer in e-learning (however delivered) except for the most rudimentary info and then only begrudgingly as how as a diving instructor can i make money getting customers to learn online on someone elses website ???

Also there can be some considerable misunderstandings with this very one sided approach. Explanations must be made in person on such advanced topics - (sub 100m diving) Units offer certain specs with standard components - All units will need some mod or other if you use it far outside stated parameters.

I use the supplied high performance reg for dil/bov driving. I would use the supplied 02 1st stage to 100m but i have changed it for low performance piston reg for sub 100m. The needle valve is as supplied - i have no probs with it when its used with a non IP boosting 1st stage in deep water.

Hope that helps...i will attempt to get some needle valve 'in action' footage and post it to the world soon as i can

Mark

Rebreatherlab · 22nd February 2008, 13:11

To clarify;

Marks Pelagian has a low serial number and was supplied with non-blocked Apex DS4's. As most know these regs have environmental seals. They work fine for limited depth diving, but with the current generation Pelagian we dont supply these anymore. Our current regs are depth compensating, (standard regs), but does not have environmental seals. The reason is that enviromental seals boost the IP and this is a bad thing for deep dives.

OC diver using them with an adjustable 2nd stage can compensate for this boost when it starts to seep a little. If it develops into a full on free flow he may or may not get on top of the situation depending on lots of factors.

Cheers,

Andy

Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer)

Hi Gill,

the needle valve is useful during deco and maybe for very long fixed depth bottom times. In practise in deeper water then my needle will be turned off with just an occasional puff of o2 added manually. back around 12m i will open the valve just to be able to use the add button less.

Rebreatherlab supply (like other manufacturers) first stages that will do the intended job (max 100m) and offer percieved quality/ fashionabilty etc. The 1st stages supplied could be anything but I believe that the end user should be fully aware of any limitations with the choice made - this is done during even a mod 1 training course with me.

Im not a believer in e-learning (however delivered) except for the most rudimentary info and then only begrudgingly as how as a diving instructor can i make money getting customers to learn online on someone elses website ???

Also there can be some considerable misunderstandings with this very one sided approach. Explanations must be made in person on such advanced topics - (sub 100m diving) Units offer certain specs with standard components - All units will need some mod or other if you use it far outside stated parameters.

I use the supplied high performance reg for dil/bov driving. I would use the supplied 02 1st stage to 100m but i have changed it for low performance piston reg for sub 100m. The needle valve is as supplied - i have no probs with it when its used with a non IP boosting 1st stage in deep water.

Hope that helps...i will attempt to get some needle valve 'in action' footage and post it to the world soon as i can

Mark

jaap · 22nd February 2008, 15:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer)

Hi Jaap,

po2 decays relatively fast in shallow water and much slower in ze deep.

5% of 1.3 ata = setpoint quick to change at 3m (bags get visibly smaller as you consume the 02)
5% of 16.0 ata = setpoint slow to change at 150m (bags dont shrink so fast

and setpoint is relativley slow to drop

at 3m on pure o2 you drop .5 po2 every breath so need to inject more to maintain the value - this is where needle valve is useful. I use it from 12m and by 3m start to wind it in to avoid hamster mouth

im feverish now after a flight from khartoum (with a load of TB carriers) on monday - when my meds kick in properly ill explain better

if you dont hear then assume the worst

With all due respect for your experience. I have a hard time understanding the physics behind it, at least if we are not talking about effects of pO2 spiking on descent or SCR-operation. The O2-volume change of the loop will of course be a lot larger in the shallows since the fraction of O2 is so much larger there. So the need to inject more O2 in order to breath comfortably
will be bigger in the shallows. But I don't see how the actual decay of the pO2 would change with depth.

I'm sorry if I'm hijacking this thread with this topic, especially since it has already been covered:
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...html#post85313

**Gill Envy** · 22nd February 2008, 15:57

Mark, thanks for the details. Sounds like your set up is a bit different from the current stock version. not sure if that might effect how little you end up using the needle valve. In any case, the pogo stick at such a depth speaks volumes about how managable your system must be. Maybe Andy can speak to how the current stock configuration effects the way the needle valve is used at different depths. And Andy, any plans to get some video out that shows the current configuration in action (showing some of the typical required tweeking during a dive)? The reason I"m pondering the creation of a shearwater pelagiadon, is that I'd like more control of o2 flow throughout my dive, regardless of depth, as I increase and decrease my work load. If I didn't live within a few hours of the meg hatchery I'd probably have just gone with the pelagian. Currently there is not a rebreather that has all the components I want all in one. A radial scrubber, a needle valve/manual add, fully independent real time HUD-primary, fully modular, in line deco.

As i'm contemplating doing deeper diving, I'm sorting out what mCCR platform I want to go with. I want to zero in on a kit set up and stick with it for a while without changing anything, to get plenty familiar with it's quirks before venturing much deeper than I do now (recreational-ish limits), then do a trimix course.

As for learning/training and the internet, the more useful information I learn here, the more I'm compelled to get solid training, and the more I am compelled to do it with the person's who's been most helpful in my process. By asking you details, I surely don't want to give the impression that I rely on internet forums for my education. I take ideas and inspirations as they evolve to my personal gurus and ultimately to my instructor to help me choose a course of direction and training. I've done so many 180 degree turns in thinking over the last two+ years that I'm perhaps more skeptical of the current trends and even my own impulses than I might otherwise be... I plod along kind of slowly asking the same questions different ways to help reduce the likelyhood that i'm going to have to undo, resell, retrain yet again. Though I can imagine my experience makes me a bit more inquisitive and self directed than some instructors are likely comfortable with.

g

Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer)

Hi Gill,

the needle valve is useful during deco and maybe for very long fixed depth bottom times. In practise in deeper water then my needle will be turned off with just an occasional puff of o2 added manually. back around 12m i will open the valve just to be able to use the add button less.

Rebreatherlab supply (like other manufacturers) first stages that will do the intended job (max 100m) and offer percieved quality/ fashionabilty etc. The 1st stages supplied could be anything but I believe that the end user should be fully aware of any limitations with the choice made - this is done during even a mod 1 training course with me.

Im not a believer in e-learning (however delivered) except for the most rudimentary info and then only begrudgingly as how as a diving instructor can i make money getting customers to learn online on someone elses website ???

Also there can be some considerable misunderstandings with this very one sided approach. Explanations must be made in person on such advanced topics - (sub 100m diving) Units offer certain specs with standard components - All units will need some mod or other if you use it far outside stated parameters.

I use the supplied high performance reg for dil/bov driving. I would use the supplied 02 1st stage to 100m but i have changed it for low performance piston reg for sub 100m. The needle valve is as supplied - i have no probs with it when its used with a non IP boosting 1st stage in deep water.

Hope that helps...i will attempt to get some needle valve 'in action' footage and post it to the world soon as i can

Mark

21st February 2008, 15:08	#31 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,326	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered so I can't imagine i'm the only one wondering how it was for the palagian divers to deal with a manual rebreather at that kind of depth, in particular how you found the combo of depth compensating first stage and adjustable needle valve and maintaining po2 while messing around with a pogo stick... and a camera? please do tell! g Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer) I think what with all the hopping up and down it triggered the OPV in the top of the Inspo lung... The view from 110m under the arch is amazing but I edited out a lot from the pogo vid to keep it sensibly sized to upload via my dial-up coonection __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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21st February 2008, 15:15	#32 (permalink)
Gobfish1 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 371	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) so I can't imagine i'm the only one wondering how it was for the palagian divers to deal with a manual rebreather at that kind of depth, in particular how you found the combo of depth compensating first stage and adjustable needle valve and maintaining po2 while messing around with a pogo stick... and a camera? please do tell! g The man's a guru , you have to pay him if you want to know how,, __________________ Steve G Apparently not the only gay diver in the village http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/o...nzee-glock.gif http://www.scubatunes.com/audio/vol01/mp3/HiTech.mp3
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21st February 2008, 17:28	#33 (permalink)
Inspired Trainer New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 63	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered Using a manual rebreather at depth is easier than ECCR - breathability changes more slowly (at depth) and being manual means not worrying about o2 solenoids from the cheapest bidder jamming open and or closed. The first stages on my pelagian are not depth 'compensating' as you state -you likely mean 'over compensated' though. I would imagine most current first stages are compensating in that they are generally balanced. Specific choices for regs on such deep dives is discussed during the Trimix Explorer training courses - I love seeing sealed diaphragm 1st stage users turn ashen when they hit 120+ frantically switching to BOV or OC . Recently someones o2 1sts stage or solenoid started vibrating like a jack hammer...snippers were twitching I can tell you but i was on hand with the camera Their IP soared as we hit 120m and their 'insert speculation' went tachycardic despite their instructor saying it would not. I spose i practise alot...with 20+ dives between 130-180m in the last 3 months - practise makes you luckier My choice in software is kind of crucial too - Decochek The camera is fairly easy as long as its weighted neutral safe DIVing and cheers, Mark Last edited by Inspired Trainer : 22nd February 2008 at 16:43.
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21st February 2008, 18:25	#34 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 451	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer) po2 decays very slowly (at depth) Isn't that a myth? If the loop volume and pO2 is the same, the loop will contain the same number of O2 molecules regardless of depth. So if the workload is constant, the loop remains closed & ADV is not used the loop should decay in the same manner at any _constant_ depth. I have no experience of 100+m dives but have heard this comment about slow pO2 decay at depth several times. Could someone explain if its real, perhaps less excertion, pO2-spiking descents and ADV-use makes for this effect? Or did the comment refer to the tuned O2-flow set so as to make it approach the metabolic rate at target depth? __________________ My initials: JAAP
(Online)

21st February 2008, 20:27	#35 (permalink)
Inspired Trainer New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 63	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered Hi Jaap, breathability changes relatively fast in shallow water and much slower in ze deep. 5% of 1.3 ata = setpoint quick to change at 3m (bags get visibly smaller as you consume the 02) 5% of 16.0 ata = setpoint slow to change at 150m (bags dont shrink so fast and setpoint is relativley slow to drop at 3m on pure o2 you drop .5 po2 every breath so need to inject more to maintain the value - this is where needle valve is useful. I use it from 12m and by 3m start to wind it in to avoid hamster mouth im feverish now after a flight from khartoum (with a load of TB carriers) on monday - when my meds kick in properly ill explain better if you dont hear then assume the worst Last edited by Inspired Trainer : 22nd February 2008 at 16:44. Reason: delirious spelling :D
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21st February 2008, 21:55	#36 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,326	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered another way of saying it: regardless of depth, o2 metabolism varies only with metabolic rate, which is relatively minimal, while the gas is getting exponentially denser with depth, making the rate of consumption in mass a smaller and smaller fraction of the molecules in the loop as you go deeper, making the po2, kind of buffered. Thanks for sharing your experience with the Palagian, in particular the needle valve. it would be cool to see a video of a portion of a dive, showing how much adjustment is typical in the rebreather lab needle valve, the skeptics might relax a bit. Is everything in the delivery system stock on your kit? ie, first stages, needle valve etc. g Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer) Hi Jaap, po2 decays relatively fast in shallow water and much slower in ze deep. 5% of 1.3 ata = setpoint quick to change at 3m (bags get visibly smaller as you consume the 02) 5% of 16.0 ata = setpoint slow to change at 150m (bags dont shrink so fast and setpoint is relativley slow to drop at 3m on pure o2 you drop .5 po2 every breath so need to inject more to maintain the value - this is where needle valve is useful. I use it from 12m and by 3m start to wind it in to avoid hamster mouth im feverish now after a flight from khartoum (with a load of TB carriers) on monday - when my meds kick in properly ill explain better if you dont hear then assume the worst __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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22nd February 2008, 09:53	#37 (permalink)
Inspired Trainer New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 63	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered Hi Gill, the needle valve is useful during deco and maybe for very long fixed depth bottom times. In practise in deeper water then my needle will be turned off with just an occasional puff of o2 added manually. back around 12m i will open the valve just to be able to use the add button less. Rebreatherlab supply (like other manufacturers) first stages that will do the intended job (max 100m) and offer percieved quality/ fashionabilty etc. The 1st stages supplied could be anything but I believe that the end user should be fully aware of any limitations with the choice made - this is done during even a mod 1 training course with me. Im not a believer in e-learning (however delivered) except for the most rudimentary info and then only begrudgingly as how as a diving instructor can i make money getting customers to learn online on someone elses website ??? Also there can be some considerable misunderstandings with this very one sided approach. Explanations must be made in person on such advanced topics - (sub 100m diving) Units offer certain specs with standard components - All units will need some mod or other if you use it far outside stated parameters. I use the supplied high performance reg for dil/bov driving. I would use the supplied 02 1st stage to 100m but i have changed it for low performance piston reg for sub 100m. The needle valve is as supplied - i have no probs with it when its used with a non IP boosting 1st stage in deep water. Hope that helps...i will attempt to get some needle valve 'in action' footage and post it to the world soon as i can Mark
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22nd February 2008, 13:11	#38 (permalink)
Rebreatherlab RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Classic Kiss Pelagian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thailand Posts: 202	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered To clarify; Marks Pelagian has a low serial number and was supplied with non-blocked Apex DS4's. As most know these regs have environmental seals. They work fine for limited depth diving, but with the current generation Pelagian we dont supply these anymore. Our current regs are depth compensating, (standard regs), but does not have environmental seals. The reason is that enviromental seals boost the IP and this is a bad thing for deep dives. OC diver using them with an adjustable 2nd stage can compensate for this boost when it starts to seep a little. If it develops into a full on free flow he may or may not get on top of the situation depending on lots of factors. Cheers, Andy Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer) Hi Gill, the needle valve is useful during deco and maybe for very long fixed depth bottom times. In practise in deeper water then my needle will be turned off with just an occasional puff of o2 added manually. back around 12m i will open the valve just to be able to use the add button less. Rebreatherlab supply (like other manufacturers) first stages that will do the intended job (max 100m) and offer percieved quality/ fashionabilty etc. The 1st stages supplied could be anything but I believe that the end user should be fully aware of any limitations with the choice made - this is done during even a mod 1 training course with me. Im not a believer in e-learning (however delivered) except for the most rudimentary info and then only begrudgingly as how as a diving instructor can i make money getting customers to learn online on someone elses website ??? Also there can be some considerable misunderstandings with this very one sided approach. Explanations must be made in person on such advanced topics - (sub 100m diving) Units offer certain specs with standard components - All units will need some mod or other if you use it far outside stated parameters. I use the supplied high performance reg for dil/bov driving. I would use the supplied 02 1st stage to 100m but i have changed it for low performance piston reg for sub 100m. The needle valve is as supplied - i have no probs with it when its used with a non IP boosting 1st stage in deep water. Hope that helps...i will attempt to get some needle valve 'in action' footage and post it to the world soon as i can Mark __________________ www.rebreatherlab.com
(Online)

22nd February 2008, 15:23	#39 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 451	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer) Hi Jaap, po2 decays relatively fast in shallow water and much slower in ze deep. 5% of 1.3 ata = setpoint quick to change at 3m (bags get visibly smaller as you consume the 02) 5% of 16.0 ata = setpoint slow to change at 150m (bags dont shrink so fast and setpoint is relativley slow to drop at 3m on pure o2 you drop .5 po2 every breath so need to inject more to maintain the value - this is where needle valve is useful. I use it from 12m and by 3m start to wind it in to avoid hamster mouth im feverish now after a flight from khartoum (with a load of TB carriers) on monday - when my meds kick in properly ill explain better if you dont hear then assume the worst With all due respect for your experience. I have a hard time understanding the physics behind it, at least if we are not talking about effects of pO2 spiking on descent or SCR-operation. The O2-volume change of the loop will of course be a lot larger in the shallows since the fraction of O2 is so much larger there. So the need to inject more O2 in order to breath comfortably will be bigger in the shallows. But I don't see how the actual decay of the pO2 would change with depth. I'm sorry if I'm hijacking this thread with this topic, especially since it has already been covered: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...html#post85313 __________________ My initials: JAAP
(Online)

22nd February 2008, 15:57	#40 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,326	Re: Deepest pogo stick dive shattered Mark, thanks for the details. Sounds like your set up is a bit different from the current stock version. not sure if that might effect how little you end up using the needle valve. In any case, the pogo stick at such a depth speaks volumes about how managable your system must be. Maybe Andy can speak to how the current stock configuration effects the way the needle valve is used at different depths. And Andy, any plans to get some video out that shows the current configuration in action (showing some of the typical required tweeking during a dive)? The reason I"m pondering the creation of a shearwater pelagiadon, is that I'd like more control of o2 flow throughout my dive, regardless of depth, as I increase and decrease my work load. If I didn't live within a few hours of the meg hatchery I'd probably have just gone with the pelagian. Currently there is not a rebreather that has all the components I want all in one. A radial scrubber, a needle valve/manual add, fully independent real time HUD-primary, fully modular, in line deco. As i'm contemplating doing deeper diving, I'm sorting out what mCCR platform I want to go with. I want to zero in on a kit set up and stick with it for a while without changing anything, to get plenty familiar with it's quirks before venturing much deeper than I do now (recreational-ish limits), then do a trimix course. As for learning/training and the internet, the more useful information I learn here, the more I'm compelled to get solid training, and the more I am compelled to do it with the person's who's been most helpful in my process. By asking you details, I surely don't want to give the impression that I rely on internet forums for my education. I take ideas and inspirations as they evolve to my personal gurus and ultimately to my instructor to help me choose a course of direction and training. I've done so many 180 degree turns in thinking over the last two+ years that I'm perhaps more skeptical of the current trends and even my own impulses than I might otherwise be... I plod along kind of slowly asking the same questions different ways to help reduce the likelyhood that i'm going to have to undo, resell, retrain yet again. Though I can imagine my experience makes me a bit more inquisitive and self directed than some instructors are likely comfortable with. g Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer) Hi Gill, the needle valve is useful during deco and maybe for very long fixed depth bottom times. In practise in deeper water then my needle will be turned off with just an occasional puff of o2 added manually. back around 12m i will open the valve just to be able to use the add button less. Rebreatherlab supply (like other manufacturers) first stages that will do the intended job (max 100m) and offer percieved quality/ fashionabilty etc. The 1st stages supplied could be anything but I believe that the end user should be fully aware of any limitations with the choice made - this is done during even a mod 1 training course with me. Im not a believer in e-learning (however delivered) except for the most rudimentary info and then only begrudgingly as how as a diving instructor can i make money getting customers to learn online on someone elses website ??? Also there can be some considerable misunderstandings with this very one sided approach. Explanations must be made in person on such advanced topics - (sub 100m diving) Units offer certain specs with standard components - All units will need some mod or other if you use it far outside stated parameters. I use the supplied high performance reg for dil/bov driving. I would use the supplied 02 1st stage to 100m but i have changed it for low performance piston reg for sub 100m. The needle valve is as supplied - i have no probs with it when its used with a non IP boosting 1st stage in deep water. Hope that helps...i will attempt to get some needle valve 'in action' footage and post it to the world soon as i can Mark __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°> Last edited by Gill Envy : 22nd February 2008 at 16:03.
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