Questions

charley · 31st January 2008, 16:28

I haven't seen any pictures showing the filter that supports the media at the bottom of the cannister. It is the same filter as the one on top??? Is it strong enough to support the weight of the media??? Any packing mechanism?

Are there any insertions or restrictions that push to flow of air towards the cell or can it just bypass them???

How do you access and where is the battery compartment?

Andy claims that you can fit 2x 80 cu/f tanks on the scrubber but, isn't the ADV's fitting in the way???

Is the ADV an S600 just like the BOV? S600 aren't really the big winners in sub 40F temps like those we have here in Canada... Having an S600 on a BOV doesn't seem like a big problem but on the ADV I can see it becoming a real PITA...

Does Andy still makes regular heads w/o the ADV but equiped with a push buttom fonction like seen on this prototype's picture???

Does he have any plans to produce a cover for the diaphragm???

Thank you.

charley · 3rd February 2008, 20:55

Rebreatherlab · 6th February 2008, 05:55

Hi Charley,

[quote=charley;166056]I haven't seen any pictures showing the filter that supports the media at the bottom of the cannister. It is the same filter as the one on top??? Is it strong enough to support the weight of the media???

The bottom filter is a mirrored version of the top filter. Supportng the weight of the sorb, (2,8 kg Draeger sorb or 3,4 kg Sofnolime), is not a problem. There have been two instances where the bottom screen has broken due to misaligning the Co2 pipe and then using body weight to push the head back on. Body weight is not supported by this screen so then they break. There is an easy way to align everything so this does not happend.

Any packing mechanism?

No. You have to pack the sorb properly. An axial design is more forgiving than a radial, but the job needs to be done properly. So far no one have had any problems with channeling as far I know. If you are familiar with the Classic Kiss, our scrubber works the same way, but you can take the bottom plug off without loosing the sorb. On a CK you can't.

Are there any insertions or restrictions that push to flow of air towards the cell or can it just bypass them???

I assume you mean "bypass" to the extent the cell does not register? No this is not a problem. In fact the cell responds so fast that we have problems with the respond time being too slow with most third party dive computers or other monitors. The reason we like fast update is in order to take advantage of our Instant Cell Validation that lets you validate your cell readings in half a breath of diluant at any depth. That is if the monitor is fast enough to up date...

How do you access and where is the battery compartment?

The 9V battery is inside the scrubber head in its own 1 ATA compartment. You replace the battery by removing the battery lid. The reason for this is that I wanted to make the display case as small as possible. If the battery would sit in the display case I would either have to use small batteries for frequent replacement, or accept a large display. Didn't like either of them!

Andy claims that you can fit 2x 80 cu/f tanks on the scrubber but, isn't the ADV's fitting in the way???

When the angles and webbing slots were designed for the X-Wing mounting plate I worked with both 19 cu. ft's and 80 cu.ft's to make sure they both worked without interference by the ADV connection. I also adjusted the angles so that even with AL 80's the top profile is not higher than the scrubber. Using 80's is extreeme overkill, but might come in handy diving with a non-Rebreather friendly resort that likely only has 80's. They will also only have right hand K valves, so you can just carry one back to front. Wont look pritty but you will go diving. Just make sure the tanks are clean, (clean them your self!).

Is the ADV an S600 just like the BOV? S600 aren't really the big winners in sub 40F temps like those we have here in Canada... Having an S600 on a BOV doesn't seem like a big problem but on the ADV I can see it becoming a real PITA...

You are right. That is why the mechanics of the ADV is from a low performance reg that can be set to give you all the resistance in the world. The new ADV membrane is very tough and you can do POS/NEG tests as long as you want.

Does Andy still makes regular heads w/o the ADV but equiped with a push buttom fonction like seen on this prototype's picture???

No. The disadvantage with increased production volume is that customization is suffering. Still it would be possible, but you would be paying more to get less feats. Instead why not just put a flow stop on it and install a manual feed in the counterlung? Much cheaper! Plus if you want to use the Instant Cell Validation, just open the flow stop and use it.

Does he have any plans to produce a cover for the diaphragm???

The ADV diaphargm cover is tough like a hockey puck. If you mean a soft rubber cover, then no. The ADV needs to be well protected as it sits on the top of the unit. It needs to take the abuse scraping it against the cave ceiling.
This is also why we changed the ADV membrane. The new menbrane would survive getting poked through the purge hole by sharp wreckage as it has a SS reinforcement plate on the top.
If you worry about beign able to purge through the hole with drysuit gloves you can stop worrying. You dont need to purge it. You just lay on your back to auto flush the loop.

Andy

Inspired Trainer · 6th February 2008, 07:57

Chaps,

just my few euro cents

The ADV sits on top of a thermal geyser (lime canister) in regard to it producing a never ending supply of conveniently warmed gas. ANY reg will not freeze here...the s600 or apeks internals will work in any temp water - of course it must be set up properly - 'slightly stiff' in engineering speak

freeflows in icy water are generally caused at the 2nd stage in a numptees mouth...hopefully not a concern here for reasons stated above

Regards from Athens

Mark

Rebreatherlab · 6th February 2008, 12:46

Mark,

You should own up and admit you are one of two who managed to break a bottom screen! I just heard from Mark Millburn how you fixed it with a Tesco Lotus cooking sieve and super glue!

What are you doing in Athens, btw? Wrestling in tight spandex, or bringing pogo stick deep diving to the Olympics committee?

Andy

Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer)

Chaps,

just my few euro cents

The ADV sits on top of a thermal geyser (lime canister) in regard to it producing a never ending supply of conveniently warmed gas. ANY reg will not freeze here...the s600 or apeks internals will work in any temp water - of course it must be set up properly - 'slightly stiff' in engineering speak

freeflows in icy water are generally caused at the 2nd stage in a numptees mouth...hopefully not a concern here for reasons stated above

Regards from Athens

Mark

Jasper180 · 6th February 2008, 13:07

I am counting the days till I go to Newfoundland to train on the Pelagian.

I own three sets on mk25/s600 regs and use them as back gas reg on open circit. Diving in the St. Lawrence year round, Newfoundland and the bottom of Lake Erie I have only had one of my regs free flow, was a 1st stage free flow that happened five dives in a row. Having the reg serviced between every dive by a "certified" ScubaPro tech. Feed up, took it to Dan at Dive Tech and found out it was tunned inproperly. That was three years ago and I have never had a problem since. I do not dive in Mark's range, but have had them in the 200'-180' range in 35-38 degree water many times.

Just my two cents (U.S. so that is worthless)

Erik

Inspired Trainer · 6th February 2008, 16:57

yes and that tesco frying guard worked perfectly down to 150m

Actually it didnt break, i poured it away with the used lime in Malta - doh

Doing Trimix courses (finished today) in Athens...there was some DIV'ing going on recently but i have fixed it luckily

Leaving here for Beirut on Sunday, gonna test my 30euro camera housing at 150m again

cya

Mikel-Deko · 6th February 2008, 17:23

Well, we will be waiting for those pictures...

Enjoy your time

Mikel

Edvin M · 7th February 2008, 13:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rebreatherlab)

No. You have to pack the sorb properly. An axial design is more forgiving than a radial, but the job needs to be done properly. So far no one have had any problems with channeling as far I know. If you are familiar with the Classic Kiss, our scrubber works the same way, but you can take the bottom plug off without loosing the sorb. On a CK you can't.

Andy

How come you hav'nt added some spring to compress the sorb? Is'nt that hard to make.

rogeringebo · 7th February 2008, 15:19

Hi!
If you pack it right you do not need springs.
It just take up a lot of room where you could have put sorb.
Proper packing is vital but after that it works as a charm...

Cheers
Roger

31st January 2008, 16:28	#1 (permalink)
charley New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 9	Questions I haven't seen any pictures showing the filter that supports the media at the bottom of the cannister. It is the same filter as the one on top??? Is it strong enough to support the weight of the media??? Any packing mechanism? Are there any insertions or restrictions that push to flow of air towards the cell or can it just bypass them??? How do you access and where is the battery compartment? Andy claims that you can fit 2x 80 cu/f tanks on the scrubber but, isn't the ADV's fitting in the way??? Is the ADV an S600 just like the BOV? S600 aren't really the big winners in sub 40F temps like those we have here in Canada... Having an S600 on a BOV doesn't seem like a big problem but on the ADV I can see it becoming a real PITA... Does Andy still makes regular heads w/o the ADV but equiped with a push buttom fonction like seen on this prototype's picture??? Does he have any plans to produce a cover for the diaphragm??? Thank you. Last edited by charley : 1st February 2008 at 03:37.
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3rd February 2008, 20:55	#2 (permalink)
charley New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 9	Re: Questions ???
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6th February 2008, 05:55	#3 (permalink)
Rebreatherlab RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Classic Kiss Pelagian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thailand Posts: 193	Re: Questions Hi Charley, [quote=charley;166056]I haven't seen any pictures showing the filter that supports the media at the bottom of the cannister. It is the same filter as the one on top??? Is it strong enough to support the weight of the media??? The bottom filter is a mirrored version of the top filter. Supportng the weight of the sorb, (2,8 kg Draeger sorb or 3,4 kg Sofnolime), is not a problem. There have been two instances where the bottom screen has broken due to misaligning the Co2 pipe and then using body weight to push the head back on. Body weight is not supported by this screen so then they break. There is an easy way to align everything so this does not happend. Any packing mechanism? No. You have to pack the sorb properly. An axial design is more forgiving than a radial, but the job needs to be done properly. So far no one have had any problems with channeling as far I know. If you are familiar with the Classic Kiss, our scrubber works the same way, but you can take the bottom plug off without loosing the sorb. On a CK you can't. Are there any insertions or restrictions that push to flow of air towards the cell or can it just bypass them??? I assume you mean "bypass" to the extent the cell does not register? No this is not a problem. In fact the cell responds so fast that we have problems with the respond time being too slow with most third party dive computers or other monitors. The reason we like fast update is in order to take advantage of our Instant Cell Validation that lets you validate your cell readings in half a breath of diluant at any depth. That is if the monitor is fast enough to up date... How do you access and where is the battery compartment? The 9V battery is inside the scrubber head in its own 1 ATA compartment. You replace the battery by removing the battery lid. The reason for this is that I wanted to make the display case as small as possible. If the battery would sit in the display case I would either have to use small batteries for frequent replacement, or accept a large display. Didn't like either of them! Andy claims that you can fit 2x 80 cu/f tanks on the scrubber but, isn't the ADV's fitting in the way??? When the angles and webbing slots were designed for the X-Wing mounting plate I worked with both 19 cu. ft's and 80 cu.ft's to make sure they both worked without interference by the ADV connection. I also adjusted the angles so that even with AL 80's the top profile is not higher than the scrubber. Using 80's is extreeme overkill, but might come in handy diving with a non-Rebreather friendly resort that likely only has 80's. They will also only have right hand K valves, so you can just carry one back to front. Wont look pritty but you will go diving. Just make sure the tanks are clean, (clean them your self!). Is the ADV an S600 just like the BOV? S600 aren't really the big winners in sub 40F temps like those we have here in Canada... Having an S600 on a BOV doesn't seem like a big problem but on the ADV I can see it becoming a real PITA... You are right. That is why the mechanics of the ADV is from a low performance reg that can be set to give you all the resistance in the world. The new ADV membrane is very tough and you can do POS/NEG tests as long as you want. Does Andy still makes regular heads w/o the ADV but equiped with a push buttom fonction like seen on this prototype's picture??? No. The disadvantage with increased production volume is that customization is suffering. Still it would be possible, but you would be paying more to get less feats. Instead why not just put a flow stop on it and install a manual feed in the counterlung? Much cheaper! Plus if you want to use the Instant Cell Validation, just open the flow stop and use it. Does he have any plans to produce a cover for the diaphragm??? The ADV diaphargm cover is tough like a hockey puck. If you mean a soft rubber cover, then no. The ADV needs to be well protected as it sits on the top of the unit. It needs to take the abuse scraping it against the cave ceiling. This is also why we changed the ADV membrane. The new menbrane would survive getting poked through the purge hole by sharp wreckage as it has a SS reinforcement plate on the top. If you worry about beign able to purge through the hole with drysuit gloves you can stop worrying. You dont need to purge it. You just lay on your back to auto flush the loop. Andy __________________ www.rebreatherlab.com
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6th February 2008, 07:57	#4 (permalink)
Inspired Trainer New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 63	Re: Questions Chaps, just my few euro cents The ADV sits on top of a thermal geyser (lime canister) in regard to it producing a never ending supply of conveniently warmed gas. ANY reg will not freeze here...the s600 or apeks internals will work in any temp water - of course it must be set up properly - 'slightly stiff' in engineering speak freeflows in icy water are generally caused at the 2nd stage in a numptees mouth...hopefully not a concern here for reasons stated above Regards from Athens Mark
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6th February 2008, 12:46	#5 (permalink)
Rebreatherlab RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Classic Kiss Pelagian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thailand Posts: 193	Re: Questions Mark, You should own up and admit you are one of two who managed to break a bottom screen! I just heard from Mark Millburn how you fixed it with a Tesco Lotus cooking sieve and super glue! What are you doing in Athens, btw? Wrestling in tight spandex, or bringing pogo stick deep diving to the Olympics committee? Andy Quote: (Originally Posted by Inspired Trainer) Chaps, just my few euro cents The ADV sits on top of a thermal geyser (lime canister) in regard to it producing a never ending supply of conveniently warmed gas. ANY reg will not freeze here...the s600 or apeks internals will work in any temp water - of course it must be set up properly - 'slightly stiff' in engineering speak freeflows in icy water are generally caused at the 2nd stage in a numptees mouth...hopefully not a concern here for reasons stated above Regards from Athens Mark __________________ www.rebreatherlab.com
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6th February 2008, 13:07	#6 (permalink)
Jasper180 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 8	Re: Questions I am counting the days till I go to Newfoundland to train on the Pelagian. I own three sets on mk25/s600 regs and use them as back gas reg on open circit. Diving in the St. Lawrence year round, Newfoundland and the bottom of Lake Erie I have only had one of my regs free flow, was a 1st stage free flow that happened five dives in a row. Having the reg serviced between every dive by a "certified" ScubaPro tech. Feed up, took it to Dan at Dive Tech and found out it was tunned inproperly. That was three years ago and I have never had a problem since. I do not dive in Mark's range, but have had them in the 200'-180' range in 35-38 degree water many times. Just my two cents (U.S. so that is worthless) Erik Last edited by Jasper180 : 6th February 2008 at 13:09. Reason: typo
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6th February 2008, 16:57	#7 (permalink)
Inspired Trainer New Member Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Pelagian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 63	Re: Questions yes and that tesco frying guard worked perfectly down to 150m Actually it didnt break, i poured it away with the used lime in Malta - doh Doing Trimix courses (finished today) in Athens...there was some DIV'ing going on recently but i have fixed it luckily Leaving here for Beirut on Sunday, gonna test my 30euro camera housing at 150m again cya
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6th February 2008, 17:23	#8 (permalink)
Mikel-Deko Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Basque Country -Sp- Posts: 408	Re: Questions Well, we will be waiting for those pictures... Enjoy your time Mikel __________________ Mikel-Deko Basque Country www.olatu.net "DIR is the nanny state for divers who cannot think on their own" Ron Micjan
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7th February 2008, 13:49	#9 (permalink)
Edvin M New Member Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lysekil, Sweden Posts: 77	Re: Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by Rebreatherlab) No. You have to pack the sorb properly. An axial design is more forgiving than a radial, but the job needs to be done properly. So far no one have had any problems with channeling as far I know. If you are familiar with the Classic Kiss, our scrubber works the same way, but you can take the bottom plug off without loosing the sorb. On a CK you can't. Andy How come you hav'nt added some spring to compress the sorb? Is'nt that hard to make.
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7th February 2008, 15:19	#10 (permalink)
rogeringebo Done with bubbles Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Pelagian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 671	Re: Questions Hi! If you pack it right you do not need springs. It just take up a lot of room where you could have put sorb. Proper packing is vital but after that it works as a charm... Cheers Roger
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