Bad design of boris'sloop?

Drmike · 4th October 2006, 07:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T)

I just suggest to to do some tests with a boris with only a inhale CL with the OPV on it just like MK15.
The other modification is to increase the ability of the exhale CL to maintain more water in it before going in the scrubber (perhaps changing the place of the OPV ).
The solution of the unique inahle CL as the interest of lowering the leak risk in the exhale part of your Rebreather that you cant easily and quickly detect.
Thats a technical choice that has been done after long reflexion either on the Joki Rebreather and the Decorider (side monted RB ).
Nothing is perfect in the Rebreather world, I neither flame for pleasure, just reflexion.
The "tonality" of some responses make me feel that I was right to open a new thread when the subject is "disturbing

There is a reason why modern units have two CLs

I was going to get a Decorider or Joki until I got my hands on one and spoke to people who got flooded loops on them

Your focusing not on the problem. The best place for flood recovery on boris is the exhale CL = fact. The 'problem' is the OPV is not very muck tolerant and can leak causing a flood.

The solution (baring in mind the exhale side is the best place to put a flood recovery device in) is to make the opv more muck tolerant.

Do you really want to just move a muck intolerant opv to the inhale lung? Why not make it muck tolerant first? And if your going to do that...then theres no need to move it is there

Mark Chase · 4th October 2006, 07:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Clearing the Boris loop is really hard...it involves staying horizontal and pressing the dil button

As you corectly point out I havent dived the Boris. However with due respect to yourself and iani, if its that simple why did you two have such a problem with the flood's?

Didnt you both end up off loop and on OC, Didnt you both flood the actual scrubber?

Either the system is easily recoverable or its not?

ATB

Mark Chase

Drmike · 4th October 2006, 07:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

As you corectly point out I havent dived the Boris. However with due respect to yourself and iani, if its that simple why did you two have such a problem with the flood's?

Didnt you both end up off loop and on OC, Didnt you both flood the actual scrubber?

Either the system is easily recoverable or its not?

ATB

Mark Chase

You have the reading ability of Stevie Wonder and the recollection ability of a goldfish

We are discussing how easy it was to celar the loop = it was very easy
You ask why I didnt stay onteh loop = that answer was made perfectly clear in my post should you care to read it carefully - With a wet scrubber the wob was a little higher than I would have liked considering I had to drag a dead scooter some of the way. I also had plenty of OC gas. Scrubber still apeared to be able to scrub.

Mark Chase · 4th October 2006, 07:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900)

If you get water into an Inspiration exhale CL for example it too will migrate to the base of the scrubber and eventually into the sofnolime. In that case there is a semi hydrophobic membrane that keeps a portion of the water out, though the scrim's primary function is to stop the sofnolime falling through the spider. There is no option for that particular diver other than to expel water by lying on his stomach and massage water out via the OP valve which happens also to be on the exhale side (this process is not easy).

F

The problem with this statement is my major flood happened about 10 weeks after my mod 1 course with about hours on the unit and i recovered it with no difficulty?

QED its not that hard

If the leek is in the scrubber head then the water will go direct to the scrubber forcing the go vertical role right and invert scenario. with any other leek the water can be tipped into the exhale counter lung and dumped mainly by going horizontal and crushing the counter lung and forcing it out past the OPV.

I found this easy enough to do but I do have large counter lungs so the position of the OPV is very accessible. One of the reasons i don't go for the Medium lungs is the position it would put the OPV and their reduced capacity for dealing with floods. The large lung can contain a lot of water without it sloshing back over the shoulder into the scrubber. Also the T pieces are lower so going vertical is less likely to allow water into the scrubber.

ATB

Mark Chase

Mark Chase · 4th October 2006, 07:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

You have the reading ability of Stevie Wonder and the recollection ability of a goldfish

We are discussing how easy it was to celar the loop = it was very easy
You ask why I didnt stay onteh loop = that answer was made perfectly clear in my post should you care to read it carefully - The wob was a little higher than I would have liked considering I had to drag a dead scooter some of the way. I also had plenty of OC gas

No i read it just fine. Why did the flood reach the stage of flooding the scrubber?

Drmike · 4th October 2006, 08:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

No i read it just fine. Why did the flood reach the stage of flooding the scrubber?

because after clearing the loop of water that was coming in through the OPV several times I had gurgles in my hoses. Then I er, well, forgot to close the mouthpiece at one time whilst clearing gurgles from the hoses - lol!

Glug glug glug! Opps!

Mark Chase · 4th October 2006, 08:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

because after clearing the loop of water that was coming in through the OPV several times I had gurgles in my hoses. Then I er, well, forgot to close the mouthpiece at one time whilst clearing gurgles from the hoses - lol!

Glug glug glug! Opps!

OK, thats Cool

As usual i love the honisty, even if you do seem keen to rip into me on a regular basis.

ATB

Mark Chase

Drmike · 4th October 2006, 08:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

OK, thats Cool

As usual i love the honisty, even if you do seem keen to rip into me on a regular basis.

its only cos I love yah!

Marc T · 4th October 2006, 08:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I was going to get a Decorider or Joki until I got my hands on one and spoke to people who got flooded loops on them

I know the joki's prob and you obviously dont remember the thread in which I advise you against going on it... for flooding reasons

But in this case its a machining problem and not design prob.

But when you are speaking about fact, what I see is thats the more expensive unit on the market will be more expensive because of the indispensable hydrophobic membrane and some research and development costs.
But perhaps the hydrophobic membrane will only be an option when got a better OPV.
Well now Ill just read the post from who know

Drmike · 4th October 2006, 08:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T)

I know the joki's prob and you obviously dont remember the thread in which I advise you against going on it... for flooding reasons

He he

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T)

But in this case its a machining problem and not design prob.

But when you are speaking about fact, what I see is thats the more expensive unit on the market will be more expensive because of the indispensable hydrophobic membrane and some research and development costs.
But perhaps the hydrophobic membrane will only be an option when got a better OPV.

I agree the membrane is indispensible.

Shame it wasnt on the original units - that would at least have prevented the resentment agaisnt forking out money to have one fitted. I recall early YBOD owners feeling the same resentment when APD asked them to pay to have backlit displays. Thats always the risk with new products..they mature and change quicker at the start of their lifecycle. Personally I bought Boris with this in mind and that has given me peace of mind

4th October 2006, 07:45	#11 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T) I just suggest to to do some tests with a boris with only a inhale CL with the OPV on it just like MK15. The other modification is to increase the ability of the exhale CL to maintain more water in it before going in the scrubber (perhaps changing the place of the OPV ). The solution of the unique inahle CL as the interest of lowering the leak risk in the exhale part of your Rebreather that you cant easily and quickly detect. Thats a technical choice that has been done after long reflexion either on the Joki Rebreather and the Decorider (side monted RB ). Nothing is perfect in the Rebreather world, I neither flame for pleasure, just reflexion. The "tonality" of some responses make me feel that I was right to open a new thread when the subject is "disturbing There is a reason why modern units have two CLs I was going to get a Decorider or Joki until I got my hands on one and spoke to people who got flooded loops on them Your focusing not on the problem. The best place for flood recovery on boris is the exhale CL = fact. The 'problem' is the OPV is not very muck tolerant and can leak causing a flood. The solution (baring in mind the exhale side is the best place to put a flood recovery device in) is to make the opv more muck tolerant. Do you really want to just move a muck intolerant opv to the inhale lung? Why not make it muck tolerant first? And if your going to do that...then theres no need to move it is there __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 4th October 2006 at 07:49.
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4th October 2006, 07:46	#12 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Clearing the Boris loop is really hard...it involves staying horizontal and pressing the dil button As you corectly point out I havent dived the Boris. However with due respect to yourself and iani, if its that simple why did you two have such a problem with the flood's? Didnt you both end up off loop and on OC, Didnt you both flood the actual scrubber? Either the system is easily recoverable or its not? ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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4th October 2006, 07:55	#13 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) As you corectly point out I havent dived the Boris. However with due respect to yourself and iani, if its that simple why did you two have such a problem with the flood's? Didnt you both end up off loop and on OC, Didnt you both flood the actual scrubber? Either the system is easily recoverable or its not? ATB Mark Chase You have the reading ability of Stevie Wonder and the recollection ability of a goldfish We are discussing how easy it was to celar the loop = it was very easy You ask why I didnt stay onteh loop = that answer was made perfectly clear in my post should you care to read it carefully - With a wet scrubber the wob was a little higher than I would have liked considering I had to drag a dead scooter some of the way. I also had plenty of OC gas. Scrubber still apeared to be able to scrub. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 4th October 2006 at 07:57.
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4th October 2006, 07:55	#14 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900) If you get water into an Inspiration exhale CL for example it too will migrate to the base of the scrubber and eventually into the sofnolime. In that case there is a semi hydrophobic membrane that keeps a portion of the water out, though the scrim's primary function is to stop the sofnolime falling through the spider. There is no option for that particular diver other than to expel water by lying on his stomach and massage water out via the OP valve which happens also to be on the exhale side (this process is not easy). F The problem with this statement is my major flood happened about 10 weeks after my mod 1 course with about hours on the unit and i recovered it with no difficulty? QED its not that hard If the leek is in the scrubber head then the water will go direct to the scrubber forcing the go vertical role right and invert scenario. with any other leek the water can be tipped into the exhale counter lung and dumped mainly by going horizontal and crushing the counter lung and forcing it out past the OPV. I found this easy enough to do but I do have large counter lungs so the position of the OPV is very accessible. One of the reasons i don't go for the Medium lungs is the position it would put the OPV and their reduced capacity for dealing with floods. The large lung can contain a lot of water without it sloshing back over the shoulder into the scrubber. Also the T pieces are lower so going vertical is less likely to allow water into the scrubber. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

4th October 2006, 07:57	#15 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) You have the reading ability of Stevie Wonder and the recollection ability of a goldfish We are discussing how easy it was to celar the loop = it was very easy You ask why I didnt stay onteh loop = that answer was made perfectly clear in my post should you care to read it carefully - The wob was a little higher than I would have liked considering I had to drag a dead scooter some of the way. I also had plenty of OC gas No i read it just fine. Why did the flood reach the stage of flooding the scrubber? __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

4th October 2006, 08:03	#16 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) No i read it just fine. Why did the flood reach the stage of flooding the scrubber? because after clearing the loop of water that was coming in through the OPV several times I had gurgles in my hoses. Then I er, well, forgot to close the mouthpiece at one time whilst clearing gurgles from the hoses - lol! Glug glug glug! Opps! __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
(Offline)

4th October 2006, 08:06	#17 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) because after clearing the loop of water that was coming in through the OPV several times I had gurgles in my hoses. Then I er, well, forgot to close the mouthpiece at one time whilst clearing gurgles from the hoses - lol! Glug glug glug! Opps! OK, thats Cool As usual i love the honisty, even if you do seem keen to rip into me on a regular basis. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

4th October 2006, 08:08	#18 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) OK, thats Cool As usual i love the honisty, even if you do seem keen to rip into me on a regular basis. its only cos I love yah! __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
(Offline)

4th October 2006, 08:09	#19 (permalink)
Marc T hell is in the details Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FRANCE Carcassonne Posts: 440	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I was going to get a Decorider or Joki until I got my hands on one and spoke to people who got flooded loops on them I know the joki's prob and you obviously dont remember the thread in which I advise you against going on it... for flooding reasons But in this case its a machining problem and not design prob. But when you are speaking about fact, what I see is thats the more expensive unit on the market will be more expensive because of the indispensable hydrophobic membrane and some research and development costs. But perhaps the hydrophobic membrane will only be an option when got a better OPV. Well now Ill just read the post from who know
(Offline)

4th October 2006, 08:18	#20 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Bad design of boris'sloop? Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T) I know the joki's prob and you obviously dont remember the thread in which I advise you against going on it... for flooding reasons He he Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T) But in this case its a machining problem and not design prob. But when you are speaking about fact, what I see is thats the more expensive unit on the market will be more expensive because of the indispensable hydrophobic membrane and some research and development costs. But perhaps the hydrophobic membrane will only be an option when got a better OPV. I agree the membrane is indispensible. Shame it wasnt on the original units - that would at least have prevented the resentment agaisnt forking out money to have one fitted. I recall early YBOD owners feeling the same resentment when APD asked them to pay to have backlit displays. Thats always the risk with new products..they mature and change quicker at the start of their lifecycle. Personally I bought Boris with this in mind and that has given me peace of mind __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
(Offline)

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