Boris floods

Drmike · 2nd October 2006, 08:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by iani)

My flood may be down to the FFM, there is a sliding part on the inner mouthpiece and apparently this can cause a leak if it isn't either fully open or closed, I am yet to test it since I found this out.

yeh keep an eye out for the ffm mouthpiece/mask internal seal thingy if its not seated properly any small amount of water that enters the mask and congregates at the bottom can be drawn into the dsv - but you would be very hard pushed to flood your unit via that way. I know I tried

I have no idea why Drager designed it that way - seems a bit stupid to me.

Mdemon · 2nd October 2006, 09:36

I'd love the Boris to be the new Mk15 for everyone to aspire to, but it does seem strange that APD have sucessfully used water traps and scrim to stop cocktails for years and yet these concepts haven't been ported properly to the Boris. At twice the price.

I'm sure Boris MkII will be better.

Drmike · 2nd October 2006, 10:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

I'd love the Boris to be the new Mk15 for everyone to aspire to, but it does seem strange that APD have sucessfully used water traps and scrim to stop cocktails for years and yet these concepts haven't been ported properly to the Boris. At twice the price.

I'm sure Boris MkII will be better.

Boris membrane works fine. It does stop a full cocktail.

I had 2 loop floods last week. One was a total flood with scrubber full of water. The membrane stopped the cocktail.

Despite what people have said you cant get a cocktail back through the exhale hose - the check valve will not allow that to happen (fill a hose with water and test it for yourself by breathing into it) . So the only source of a cocktail is through the scrubber membrane - (which is hydrophobic) into the inhale lung and into inhale hose - so that cant happen. But the membrane is not (yet) sealed water tight into the scrubber so there is a very small amount of leakage (from a filled scrubber) around top and bottom of membrane, but the amount of water is very small (just enough to get a taste) In my case I got about a tea spoon full of slightly caustic tasting water out my dsv after flooding then clearing the loop

In my case when I opened my scrubber after flooded dives the water in the dome was only very slightly caustic - certainly not enough to burn - just sting cuts on hands a little.

On long cave dives now, Ive started/will be, every so often momentarily over pressurising the loop (by squirting in dil) whilst swimming/scootering along horizontaly to clear any water that may be gathering in the exhale lung through the opv - just as a precaution against water ingress from any source. But I will also be looking at a mod to the opv, although to be fair that only fails when the unit is dirty (muck in exhale lung)

What I was happy about was that I was able to completely recover the loop and flush all the water out practically imediately (this was something not possible on the MK15 series units, and hard to do but not impossible on YBOD ) a vital feature for cave dives IMO. As soon as I realised the exhale lung and scrubber was flooded (very very high wob) I stayed horizontal and flushed. All the water came out and I didnt even come off the loop. I gingerly took some breaths but found no caustic coming thru. The scrubber was fully waterlogged though so the wob was quite a bit higher (but likely breathable) it also seamed to be scrubbing co2 reasonably ok but likely best to run semiclosed.

decoweenie · 2nd October 2006, 10:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

...What I was happy about was that I was able to completely recover the loop and flush all the water out practically imediately (this was something not possible on the MK15 series units

...I stayed horizontal and flushed...

I have never actually done it, but have thought about it a lot when I was diving the MK-15...

I believe you should be able to do the same on the MK-15 if the water is accumulated in the CL. Then the OPV could be pressurized to act as a dump valve as long as the diver stays horizontal.

Like I said, I have never done it so could be wrong...

Phil · 2nd October 2006, 11:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Hi Phil - nice to meet you.

The day you left we got into Russel - great conditions, clear viz from entrance. Spent the rest of the time at Russel

Bugger, now that's my luck! Or maybe it is because I left that you manage to get some dives done....

Anyway I am glad it workout fine for your guys. For me it is only a 5-6 hours drive.

When you get a chance can you send me some pictures, especially the one from St Sauveur!

Keep well

CCR900 · 2nd October 2006, 11:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

......But the membrane is not (yet) sealed water tight into the scrubber so there is a very small amount of leakage .......

(Yet)?.... is there something in the pipeline to resolve this at factory level or were you thinking of doing something yourself?

F

***Decodiver*** · 2nd October 2006, 12:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900)

(Yet)?.... is there something in the pipeline to resolve this at factory level or were you thinking of doing something yourself?

F

A bead of aquasure at the top and bottom of the membrane will assure it's water-tightness, this is what I have done on mine.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

***EBT*** · 2nd October 2006, 12:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

A bead of aquasure at the top and bottom of the membrane will assure it's water-tightness, this is what I have done on mine.

Is this the last aquasure you'll ever need?

Im guessing this was special aquasure at £50 a tube?

CCR900 · 2nd October 2006, 13:07

Permanent move right? Once glued its stuck there.

Not that I can think of a good reason the take the membrane out.

F

Simon A · 2nd October 2006, 14:17

I was chatting with Phil Short yesterday, and apparently the membranes that are fitted by the factory are now sealed with silicone.

Simon A

2nd October 2006, 08:39	#31 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Boris floods Quote: (Originally Posted by iani) My flood may be down to the FFM, there is a sliding part on the inner mouthpiece and apparently this can cause a leak if it isn't either fully open or closed, I am yet to test it since I found this out. yeh keep an eye out for the ffm mouthpiece/mask internal seal thingy if its not seated properly any small amount of water that enters the mask and congregates at the bottom can be drawn into the dsv - but you would be very hard pushed to flood your unit via that way. I know I tried I have no idea why Drager designed it that way - seems a bit stupid to me. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
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2nd October 2006, 09:36	#32 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,888	Re: Boris floods I'd love the Boris to be the new Mk15 for everyone to aspire to, but it does seem strange that APD have sucessfully used water traps and scrim to stop cocktails for years and yet these concepts haven't been ported properly to the Boris. At twice the price. I'm sure Boris MkII will be better. __________________ www.southwestmafia.com It's as easy as abc; a) "Carry adequate bailout" b) "If in doubt, bail out" c) "Always know your PO2" If you find that hard, stick to crochet. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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2nd October 2006, 10:10	#33 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Boris floods Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) I'd love the Boris to be the new Mk15 for everyone to aspire to, but it does seem strange that APD have sucessfully used water traps and scrim to stop cocktails for years and yet these concepts haven't been ported properly to the Boris. At twice the price. I'm sure Boris MkII will be better. Boris membrane works fine. It does stop a full cocktail. I had 2 loop floods last week. One was a total flood with scrubber full of water. The membrane stopped the cocktail. Despite what people have said you cant get a cocktail back through the exhale hose - the check valve will not allow that to happen (fill a hose with water and test it for yourself by breathing into it) . So the only source of a cocktail is through the scrubber membrane - (which is hydrophobic) into the inhale lung and into inhale hose - so that cant happen. But the membrane is not (yet) sealed water tight into the scrubber so there is a very small amount of leakage (from a filled scrubber) around top and bottom of membrane, but the amount of water is very small (just enough to get a taste) In my case I got about a tea spoon full of slightly caustic tasting water out my dsv after flooding then clearing the loop In my case when I opened my scrubber after flooded dives the water in the dome was only very slightly caustic - certainly not enough to burn - just sting cuts on hands a little. On long cave dives now, Ive started/will be, every so often momentarily over pressurising the loop (by squirting in dil) whilst swimming/scootering along horizontaly to clear any water that may be gathering in the exhale lung through the opv - just as a precaution against water ingress from any source. But I will also be looking at a mod to the opv, although to be fair that only fails when the unit is dirty (muck in exhale lung) What I was happy about was that I was able to completely recover the loop and flush all the water out practically imediately (this was something not possible on the MK15 series units, and hard to do but not impossible on YBOD ) a vital feature for cave dives IMO. As soon as I realised the exhale lung and scrubber was flooded (very very high wob) I stayed horizontal and flushed. All the water came out and I didnt even come off the loop. I gingerly took some breaths but found no caustic coming thru. The scrubber was fully waterlogged though so the wob was quite a bit higher (but likely breathable) it also seamed to be scrubbing co2 reasonably ok but likely best to run semiclosed. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 2nd October 2006 at 10:13.
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2nd October 2006, 10:33	#34 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Boris floods Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) ...What I was happy about was that I was able to completely recover the loop and flush all the water out practically imediately (this was something not possible on the MK15 series units ...I stayed horizontal and flushed... I have never actually done it, but have thought about it a lot when I was diving the MK-15... I believe you should be able to do the same on the MK-15 if the water is accumulated in the CL. Then the OPV could be pressurized to act as a dump valve as long as the diver stays horizontal. Like I said, I have never done it so could be wrong... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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2nd October 2006, 11:15	#35 (permalink)
Phil Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Geneva-Switzerland Posts: 170	Re: Boris floods Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Hi Phil - nice to meet you. The day you left we got into Russel - great conditions, clear viz from entrance. Spent the rest of the time at Russel Bugger, now that's my luck! Or maybe it is because I left that you manage to get some dives done.... Anyway I am glad it workout fine for your guys. For me it is only a 5-6 hours drive. When you get a chance can you send me some pictures, especially the one from St Sauveur! Keep well __________________ Phil __________________ CCR/OC Instructor CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com
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2nd October 2006, 11:50	#36 (permalink)
CCR900 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: England Posts: 332	Re: Boris floods Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) ......But the membrane is not (yet) sealed water tight into the scrubber so there is a very small amount of leakage ....... (Yet)?.... is there something in the pipeline to resolve this at factory level or were you thinking of doing something yourself? F
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2nd October 2006, 12:43	#37 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,168	Re: Boris floods Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900) (Yet)?.... is there something in the pipeline to resolve this at factory level or were you thinking of doing something yourself? F A bead of aquasure at the top and bottom of the membrane will assure it's water-tightness, this is what I have done on mine. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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2nd October 2006, 12:50	#38 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,855	Re: Boris floods Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) A bead of aquasure at the top and bottom of the membrane will assure it's water-tightness, this is what I have done on mine. Is this the last aquasure you'll ever need? Im guessing this was special aquasure at £50 a tube? __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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2nd October 2006, 13:07	#39 (permalink)
CCR900 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: England Posts: 332	Re: Boris floods Permanent move right? Once glued its stuck there. Not that I can think of a good reason the take the membrane out. F
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2nd October 2006, 14:17	#40 (permalink)
Simon A Escapee from DIY Rebreather's Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 282	Re: Boris floods I was chatting with Phil Short yesterday, and apparently the membranes that are fitted by the factory are now sealed with silicone. Simon A
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