hidrofobic menbrane

***diverklondike*** · 2nd May 2006, 16:11

My dive buddy this past weekend dove his Boris with the new membrane and stated that he did not detect any WOB difference...

M

iain-hsm · 2nd May 2006, 17:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Whats the issue here? MK15.6/16/27 have been using Porex for decades. It works - nothing new. To my eyes at least it looked and felt just like porex. what is there to discuss?
In the case of Boris the membrane is there more to stop dust than to keep water out. if kevin says its wob is still within CE levels why dont you believe him? if you want to know the details of its WOB testing and if it was CE'd why ask users? - ask Kevin.

Mike. I am really sorry for you here so why take up the slack on this one. It’s your call so to speak but I do hope those new shorts of yours are blast proof. I just want someone to give an authorative statement about the membrane. Was it tested with the membrane fitted? If so is it the same as USN? Was WOB affected? as was stated in the post by others? If not withdraw, there is no other agenda.

However my point stands simply to avoid confusion. Statements have been made by others in this post that may transpire to be true or not. Let’s assume to be on the safe side that until answers are given its questionable? However it’s not just a question of who you trust. In God I trust, to all others I question. But without a full statement now the only thing we will smell will be the cover up coming from the source of this misinformation.
Now this post will go one of two ways, we can get a true statement or we can expect to take flack and some expert criticism from a one post numpty.

Re your other comments and as I have nothing to do with any SCUBA manufacturer UK or USA in rebreather products however IMHO the Prism does not need CE certification as its sold in USA not the EU. However note it did pass USN testing and the information was fully presented on there web site.

So on a light note and in keeping with traditional picture taking on this post while we wait for relevant information and pictures of the Boris membrane I enclose two items to further your Mk 15.5 16 and 27 illusive posing:

One is an Oxygen fitting from the Boris rebreather (shown with and without the hand wheel for clarity taken today). The other our tiny quite little British designed oxygen regulator assembly internals from a current mil spec rebreather to NGUBA design protocol. Now the statement as it stands is either true or not true. However I would submit that Captain C. Murray Supervisor of Diving for Naval Sea Systems Command (now with the Pentagon) as witness to have been briefed on one of these products but have little idea or no idea of the other.

One is light weight, oxygen bomb tested and certified for 414 barg with a 4 barg output and comes complete with an integrated pressure relieving system through the hollow piston stem as can be seen on the picture. While the other adaptor failed the ignition bomb test. Finally one would, and can assume that when flying economy only one the units are within current baggage allowances. All others including C130 vendors are exempt.

This is a final call for Boris if he is in the building …….Iain Middlebrook.

iain-hsm · 2nd May 2006, 17:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

My dive buddy this past weekend dove his Boris with the new membrane and stated that he did not detect any WOB difference...

M

Dear God I could weep!!

Drmike · 2nd May 2006, 17:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

Mike. I am really sorry for you here so why take up the slack on this one. It’s your call so to speak but I do hope those new shorts of yours are blast proof. I just want someone to give an authorative statement about the membrane. Was it tested with the membrane fitted? If so is it the same as USN? Was WOB affected? as was stated in the post by others? If not withdraw, there is no other agenda.

However my point stands simply to avoid confusion. Statements have been made by others in this post that may transpire to be true or not. Let’s assume to be on the safe side that until answers are given its questionable? However it’s not just a question of who you trust. In God I trust, to all others I question. But without a full statement now the only thing we will smell will be the cover up coming from the source of this misinformation.
Now this post will go one of two ways, we can get a true statement or we can expect to take flack and some expert criticism from a one post numpty.

Re your other comments and as I have nothing to do with any SCUBA manufacturer UK or USA in rebreather products however IMHO the Prism does not need CE certification as its sold in USA not the EU. However note it did pass USN testing and the information was fully presented on there web site.

So on a light note and in keeping with traditional picture taking on this post while we wait for relevant information and pictures of the Boris membrane I enclose two items to further your Mk 15.5 16 and 27 illusive posing:

One is an Oxygen fitting from the Boris rebreather (shown with and without the hand wheel for clarity taken today). The other our tiny quite little British designed oxygen regulator assembly internals from a current mil spec rebreather to NGUBA design protocol. Now the statement as it stands is either true or not true. However I would submit that Captain C. Murray Supervisor of Diving for Naval Sea Systems Command (now with the Pentagon) as witness to have been briefed on one of these products but have little idea or no idea of the other.

One is light weight, oxygen bomb tested and certified for 414 barg with a 4 barg output and comes complete with an integrated pressure relieving system through the hollow piston stem as can be seen on the picture. While the other adaptor failed the ignition bomb test. Finally one would, and can assume that when flying economy only one the units are within current baggage allowances. All others including C130 vendors are exempt.

This is a final call for Boris if he is in the building …….Iain Middlebrook.

I must be having a blonde moment cos I cant understand what any of the above means or what point you are trying to make.

Why are you asking users about specifics of Boris testing - Just call Kevin his number is on the website. The call should take less time than it takes you to photo some piece of unrelated equipment and post mysterious riddles.

iain-hsm · 2nd May 2006, 18:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I must be having a blonde moment cos I cant understand what any of the above means or what point you are trying to make.

Why are you asking users about specifics of Boris testing - Just call Kevin his number is on the website. The call should take less time than it takes you to photo some piece of unrelated equipment and post mysterious riddles.

Mike lets make it simple here. This is a public forum in which users have claimed (in this post alone) that they were told the Boris was tested with the new membrane and its the same WOB and it passed CE WOB.
Users have also claimed of being told it is the same material used by the US Navy further your last post implies a product shared with MK15.5/16/27? I just wonder if any of it is true and I will excercise my right to question this. I came to this from posts 9 from an involvement in military rebreathers and I will leave when I am ready.

Drmike · 2nd May 2006, 18:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

Mike lets make it simple here. This is a public forum in which users have claimed (in this post alone) that they were told the Boris was tested with the new membrane and its the same WOB and it passed CE WOB.
Users have also claimed of being told it is the same material used by the US Navy further your last post implies a product shared with MK15.5/16/27? I just wonder if any of it is true and I will excercise my right to question this. I came to this from posts 9 from an involvement in military rebreathers and I will leave when I am ready.

I never claimed it passed CE WOB with the membrane - Because I dont know for a fact that it did. I was told "its wob was within CE requirements" - which is all that I repeated here...that I was told that.

Exercise the right to question all you want - but I dont see the point in you badgering users who know little about what testing was or wasnt done and are only repeating what little they have been told.

We dont have the answers you want. That doesnt make us idiots, liars or fools, it just measns we werent given the facts. If you really want to know badger someone who can give you the facts - Kevin.

Now can we move on?

iain-hsm · 2nd May 2006, 18:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

That's intresting seeing that the Ouroboros doesn't meet the CE requirements for breathing performance in the first place (Manual 3v0c, page 140, #6).

Stefan. You and Joe better quit this UT240/Prism shit as I am not taking the blame over this. It was a long time ago I was young broke and needed the money lol. No wonder Mikes giving me shit. At least the Ouroborus has passed CE and have published a full technical free manual. 110% for that alone and its free Joe. Page 140 on performance you can discount its nothing besides I thought CE directive was written around another unit. I have no problems on the Ouroborus only the membrane claims.

iain-hsm · 2nd May 2006, 18:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I never claimed it passed CE WOB with the membrane - Because I dont know for a fact that it did. I was told "its wob was within CE requirements" - which is all that I repeated here...that I was told that.

Exercise the right to question all you want - but I dont see the point in you badgering users who know little about what testing was or wasnt done and are only repeating what little they have been told.

We dont have the answers you want. That doesnt make us idiots, liars or fools, it just measns we werent given the facts. If you really want to know badger someone who can give you the facts - Kevin.

Now can we move on?

Sure we can Mike sorry for the intrusion. iain middlebrook

CCR-DIVER · 2nd May 2006, 18:54

Hi guys,

Please let´s go diving, and stop with stupid discussions.

Ouroboros it´s just a rebreather like others, with positive and negative aspects, like cars or woman.

For me it´s a fantastic unit.

have fun and good deep dives .

cheers

josé

***caveseeker7*** · 2nd May 2006, 19:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I can tell you from 1st hand experience that in that position and in all positions the wob kicks the ass out of the MK15.5 units you love so much Stefan

You like it even more, Mike, you bought it, remember?

No agenda here on my part, I like just about everything about the 'boris that I've seen so far, with the one exception being the rather steep price tag. And there are two ways of looking that, either Kevin's price is to high or Stefan's income too low.

Kevin G. told me before he CEed the rig that it wouldn't have to comply with all breathing performance requirements. I'm glad it it doesn't, as that would all but eliminate backmounted CLs.

I'm curious about WOB test results comparing stock an membrane versions, more out of curiousity than anything else. Same for the membranes used in the Cis. Don't really care too much if they fall within CE or not, either one feels comfortable breathing on the loop or not. That's really all there is to it.

Quote:

Has the Prism passed CE ???

Not that I know of, but the WOB results are published.

No idea how they compare to other rigs (that are mostly unpublished), but out of the units I dove or played with in the pool it's hands down the best WOB I've experienced.

2nd May 2006, 16:11	#41 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,461	Re: hidrofobic menbrane My dive buddy this past weekend dove his Boris with the new membrane and stated that he did not detect any WOB difference... M
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2nd May 2006, 17:36	#43 (permalink)
iain-hsm Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Loughborough England uk Posts: 346	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) My dive buddy this past weekend dove his Boris with the new membrane and stated that he did not detect any WOB difference... M Dear God I could weep!!
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2nd May 2006, 17:46	#44 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm) Mike. I am really sorry for you here so why take up the slack on this one. It’s your call so to speak but I do hope those new shorts of yours are blast proof. I just want someone to give an authorative statement about the membrane. Was it tested with the membrane fitted? If so is it the same as USN? Was WOB affected? as was stated in the post by others? If not withdraw, there is no other agenda. However my point stands simply to avoid confusion. Statements have been made by others in this post that may transpire to be true or not. Let’s assume to be on the safe side that until answers are given its questionable? However it’s not just a question of who you trust. In God I trust, to all others I question. But without a full statement now the only thing we will smell will be the cover up coming from the source of this misinformation. Now this post will go one of two ways, we can get a true statement or we can expect to take flack and some expert criticism from a one post numpty. Re your other comments and as I have nothing to do with any SCUBA manufacturer UK or USA in rebreather products however IMHO the Prism does not need CE certification as its sold in USA not the EU. However note it did pass USN testing and the information was fully presented on there web site. So on a light note and in keeping with traditional picture taking on this post while we wait for relevant information and pictures of the Boris membrane I enclose two items to further your Mk 15.5 16 and 27 illusive posing: One is an Oxygen fitting from the Boris rebreather (shown with and without the hand wheel for clarity taken today). The other our tiny quite little British designed oxygen regulator assembly internals from a current mil spec rebreather to NGUBA design protocol. Now the statement as it stands is either true or not true. However I would submit that Captain C. Murray Supervisor of Diving for Naval Sea Systems Command (now with the Pentagon) as witness to have been briefed on one of these products but have little idea or no idea of the other. One is light weight, oxygen bomb tested and certified for 414 barg with a 4 barg output and comes complete with an integrated pressure relieving system through the hollow piston stem as can be seen on the picture. While the other adaptor failed the ignition bomb test. Finally one would, and can assume that when flying economy only one the units are within current baggage allowances. All others including C130 vendors are exempt. This is a final call for Boris if he is in the building …….Iain Middlebrook. I must be having a blonde moment cos I cant understand what any of the above means or what point you are trying to make. Why are you asking users about specifics of Boris testing - Just call Kevin his number is on the website. The call should take less time than it takes you to photo some piece of unrelated equipment and post mysterious riddles. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
(Offline)

2nd May 2006, 18:13	#45 (permalink)
iain-hsm Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Loughborough England uk Posts: 346	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I must be having a blonde moment cos I cant understand what any of the above means or what point you are trying to make. Why are you asking users about specifics of Boris testing - Just call Kevin his number is on the website. The call should take less time than it takes you to photo some piece of unrelated equipment and post mysterious riddles. Mike lets make it simple here. This is a public forum in which users have claimed (in this post alone) that they were told the Boris was tested with the new membrane and its the same WOB and it passed CE WOB. Users have also claimed of being told it is the same material used by the US Navy further your last post implies a product shared with MK15.5/16/27? I just wonder if any of it is true and I will excercise my right to question this. I came to this from posts 9 from an involvement in military rebreathers and I will leave when I am ready.
(Offline)

2nd May 2006, 18:42	#46 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm) Mike lets make it simple here. This is a public forum in which users have claimed (in this post alone) that they were told the Boris was tested with the new membrane and its the same WOB and it passed CE WOB. Users have also claimed of being told it is the same material used by the US Navy further your last post implies a product shared with MK15.5/16/27? I just wonder if any of it is true and I will excercise my right to question this. I came to this from posts 9 from an involvement in military rebreathers and I will leave when I am ready. I never claimed it passed CE WOB with the membrane - Because I dont know for a fact that it did. I was told "its wob was within CE requirements" - which is all that I repeated here...that I was told that. Exercise the right to question all you want - but I dont see the point in you badgering users who know little about what testing was or wasnt done and are only repeating what little they have been told. We dont have the answers you want. That doesnt make us idiots, liars or fools, it just measns we werent given the facts. If you really want to know badger someone who can give you the facts - Kevin. Now can we move on? __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 2nd May 2006 at 18:45.
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2nd May 2006, 18:45	#47 (permalink)
iain-hsm Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Loughborough England uk Posts: 346	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) That's intresting seeing that the Ouroboros doesn't meet the CE requirements for breathing performance in the first place (Manual 3v0c, page 140, #6). Stefan. You and Joe better quit this UT240/Prism shit as I am not taking the blame over this. It was a long time ago I was young broke and needed the money lol. No wonder Mikes giving me shit. At least the Ouroborus has passed CE and have published a full technical free manual. 110% for that alone and its free Joe. Page 140 on performance you can discount its nothing besides I thought CE directive was written around another unit. I have no problems on the Ouroborus only the membrane claims.
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2nd May 2006, 18:50	#48 (permalink)
iain-hsm Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Loughborough England uk Posts: 346	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I never claimed it passed CE WOB with the membrane - Because I dont know for a fact that it did. I was told "its wob was within CE requirements" - which is all that I repeated here...that I was told that. Exercise the right to question all you want - but I dont see the point in you badgering users who know little about what testing was or wasnt done and are only repeating what little they have been told. We dont have the answers you want. That doesnt make us idiots, liars or fools, it just measns we werent given the facts. If you really want to know badger someone who can give you the facts - Kevin. Now can we move on? Sure we can Mike sorry for the intrusion. iain middlebrook
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2nd May 2006, 18:54	#49 (permalink)
CCR-DIVER New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Portugal Posts: 73	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Hi guys, Please let´s go diving, and stop with stupid discussions. Ouroboros it´s just a rebreather like others, with positive and negative aspects, like cars or woman. For me it´s a fantastic unit. have fun and good deep dives . cheers josé __________________ *José Marques* *www.in-silence.com*
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2nd May 2006, 19:36	#50 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I can tell you from 1st hand experience that in that position and in all positions the wob kicks the ass out of the MK15.5 units you love so much Stefan You like it even more, Mike, you bought it, remember? No agenda here on my part, I like just about everything about the 'boris that I've seen so far, with the one exception being the rather steep price tag. And there are two ways of looking that, either Kevin's price is to high or Stefan's income too low. Kevin G. told me before he CEed the rig that it wouldn't have to comply with all breathing performance requirements. I'm glad it it doesn't, as that would all but eliminate backmounted CLs. I'm curious about WOB test results comparing stock an membrane versions, more out of curiousity than anything else. Same for the membranes used in the Cis. Don't really care too much if they fall within CE or not, either one feels comfortable breathing on the loop or not. That's really all there is to it. Quote: Has the Prism passed CE ??? Not that I know of, but the WOB results are published. No idea how they compare to other rigs (that are mostly unpublished), but out of the units I dove or played with in the pool it's hands down the best WOB I've experienced. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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