hidrofobic menbrane

Drmike · 2nd May 2006, 10:07

Am I missing some great conspiracy Im not aware of? Ive seen the membrane on Phils unit, there are old pics from Dema showing the membrane fotted and its available from Kevin. I think there are a number of people using them already.

I have been told by Phil the WOB is still within CE levels with the membrane fitted. I have no reason to disbelieve him

***caveseeker7*** · 2nd May 2006, 12:27

While we're waiting for someone to aim a camera at said hydrophobic membrane, push the shutter button and upload the picture we may as well ...

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

We still see remnants of that project even in current rebreathers, like the counterlungs on the PRISM

and

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

thanks to full QA traceable archive system with cheap camera included I enclose some of the early bag prototypes from the UT 240 days

Below a picture of one of the early PRISM counterlungs, the influence of the UT240 is visible. Good thing, too, I believe. Where the popular T-pieces have 3 connectors, these bags have only 2, reducing failure points. Water inside the loop has a lesser chance of bypassing the bags, and hoses are routed more conviniently in regards to blocking the view.

Divematics, by the way, also uses like bags on the Shadow Pack III.

***caveseeker7*** · 2nd May 2006, 12:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I have been told by Phil the WOB is still within CE levels with the membrane fitted. I have no reason to disbelieve him

That's intresting seeing that the Ouroboros doesn't meet the CE requirements for breathing performance in the first place (Manual 3v0c, page 140, #6).

JonnyB · 2nd May 2006, 12:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

That's intresting seeing that the Ouroboros doesn't meet the CE requirements for breathing performance in the first place (Manual 3v0c, page 140, #6).

That is strange, how can it not meet the requirements and yet be CE certified?

/Jonny

iain-hsm · 2nd May 2006, 12:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Am I missing some great conspiracy Im not aware of? Ive seen the membrane on Phils unit, there are old pics from Dema showing the membrane fotted and its available from Kevin. I think there are a number of people using them already.
I have been told by Phil the WOB is still within CE levels with the membrane fitted. I have no reason to disbelieve him

Mike. Now I don’t give a jot for the conspiracy but it happened months ago.

However the use of membranes in rebreathers is a very interesting area and being offered as an option with the Boris deserves a better response.
A clear transparent peer reviewed discussion from the original request for information in this post and the subsequent claims have left omissions.

I for one would now like to know if this new latest membrane offered on the Boris web site is Quote:
(Closed Circuit Research has now perfected a 'plastic style' hydrophobic membrane system. The membrane can be retro-fitted to the existing canister and is positioned by replacing the outer mesh ring. The positioning stops the migration of absorbent dust and moisture on long dives, into the inhale counterlung. Should a temporary flood occur in the inhale circuit, then water is prevented from accessing the absorbent. The membrane can simply be flushed with fresh water and dried.) End Quote

Is it as claimed in this post the same as the USN Mark 16 yes or no?
Was it as claimed in the post: Tested with the original EN CE submission and was the membrane tested found to have the same WOB as has been claimed?

This is an ideal opportunity to discuss membranes. use it of loose it.

***jradomski*** · 2nd May 2006, 13:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

That is strange, how can it not meet the requirements and yet be CE certified?

/Jonny

if most of the unit passes and you document the failures, It is possible to still get CE certified providing the failures are not too significant.

Drmike · 2nd May 2006, 13:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

Mike. Now I don’t give a jot for the conspiracy but it happened months ago.

However the use of membranes in rebreathers is a very interesting area and being offered as an option with the Boris deserves a better response.
A clear transparent peer reviewed discussion from the original request for information in this post and the subsequent claims have left omissions.

I for one would now like to know if this new latest membrane offered on the Boris web site is Quote:
(Closed Circuit Research has now perfected a 'plastic style' hydrophobic membrane system. The membrane can be retro-fitted to the existing canister and is positioned by replacing the outer mesh ring. The positioning stops the migration of absorbent dust and moisture on long dives, into the inhale counterlung. Should a temporary flood occur in the inhale circuit, then water is prevented from accessing the absorbent. The membrane can simply be flushed with fresh water and dried.) End Quote

Is it as claimed in this post the same as the USN Mark 16 yes or no?
Was it as claimed in the post: Tested with the original EN CE submission and was the membrane tested found to have the same WOB as has been claimed?

This is an ideal opportunity to discuss membranes. use it of loose it.

Whats the issue here? MK15.6/16/27 have been using Porex for decades. It works - nothing new. To my eyes at least it looked and felt just like porex.

what is there to discuss?

In the case of Boris the membrane is there more to stop dust than to keep water out.

if kevin says its wob is still within CE levels why dont you believe him?

if you want to know the details of its WOB testing and if it was CE'd why ask users? - ask Kevin.

Drmike · 2nd May 2006, 13:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

if most of the unit passes and you document the failures, It is possible to still get CE certified providing the failures are not too significant.

and wob is a significant requirement

I smell 'agenda' all over the place - what gives?

Drmike · 2nd May 2006, 13:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

That's intresting seeing that the Ouroboros doesn't meet the CE requirements for breathing performance in the first place (Manual 3v0c, page 140, #6).

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

That is strange, how can it not meet the requirements and yet be CE certified?

/Jonny

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

It is possible to still get CE certified providing the failures are not too significant.

and having wob a little higher than the standard when upside down- as is expected from rear CL units isnt regarded as significant.

I can tell you from 1st hand experience that in that position and in all positions the wob kicks the ass out of the MK15.5 units you love so much Stefan

Has the Prism passed CE ???

***jradomski*** · 2nd May 2006, 16:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

and wob is a significant requirement

I smell 'agenda' all over the place - what gives?

overall yes I would agree with WOB but in this case the failure was 1 position..

I have no agenda here.. Just pointing out that just because something has CE doesnt mean it passed all tests, which is what most people think it means..

Or that an item has a CE rating means the rating has anything to do with what it may be used for...

2nd May 2006, 10:07	#31 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,104	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Am I missing some great conspiracy Im not aware of? Ive seen the membrane on Phils unit, there are old pics from Dema showing the membrane fotted and its available from Kevin. I think there are a number of people using them already. I have been told by Phil the WOB is still within CE levels with the membrane fitted. I have no reason to disbelieve him __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
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2nd May 2006, 12:37	#33 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,287	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I have been told by Phil the WOB is still within CE levels with the membrane fitted. I have no reason to disbelieve him That's intresting seeing that the Ouroboros doesn't meet the CE requirements for breathing performance in the first place (Manual 3v0c, page 140, #6). __________________ Cheers Stefan Be Water, My Friend - Bruce Lee Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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2nd May 2006, 12:39	#34 (permalink)
JonnyB Jonny The Hatch Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Titan Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden (Stockholm)/Cyprus(Ayia Napa) Posts: 940	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) That's intresting seeing that the Ouroboros doesn't meet the CE requirements for breathing performance in the first place (Manual 3v0c, page 140, #6). That is strange, how can it not meet the requirements and yet be CE certified? /Jonny __________________ A quote from Crazyduck - In remembering our own Rob Davies. "Outbound flight 777 heavy you are cleared for flight Due west into that warm red Texas sunset You have angels on your wings and divers memories on your six." Rest In Peace http://www.divetekcyprus.com http://www.diveccr.com
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2nd May 2006, 12:55	#35 (permalink)
iain-hsm Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Loughborough England uk Posts: 345	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Am I missing some great conspiracy Im not aware of? Ive seen the membrane on Phils unit, there are old pics from Dema showing the membrane fotted and its available from Kevin. I think there are a number of people using them already. I have been told by Phil the WOB is still within CE levels with the membrane fitted. I have no reason to disbelieve him Mike. Now I don’t give a jot for the conspiracy but it happened months ago. However the use of membranes in rebreathers is a very interesting area and being offered as an option with the Boris deserves a better response. A clear transparent peer reviewed discussion from the original request for information in this post and the subsequent claims have left omissions. I for one would now like to know if this new latest membrane offered on the Boris web site is Quote: (Closed Circuit Research has now perfected a 'plastic style' hydrophobic membrane system. The membrane can be retro-fitted to the existing canister and is positioned by replacing the outer mesh ring. The positioning stops the migration of absorbent dust and moisture on long dives, into the inhale counterlung. Should a temporary flood occur in the inhale circuit, then water is prevented from accessing the absorbent. The membrane can simply be flushed with fresh water and dried.) End Quote Is it as claimed in this post the same as the USN Mark 16 yes or no? Was it as claimed in the post: Tested with the original EN CE submission and was the membrane tested found to have the same WOB as has been claimed? This is an ideal opportunity to discuss membranes. use it of loose it.
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2nd May 2006, 13:04	#36 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,798	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB) That is strange, how can it not meet the requirements and yet be CE certified? /Jonny if most of the unit passes and you document the failures, It is possible to still get CE certified providing the failures are not too significant. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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2nd May 2006, 13:32	#37 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,104	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm) Mike. Now I don’t give a jot for the conspiracy but it happened months ago. However the use of membranes in rebreathers is a very interesting area and being offered as an option with the Boris deserves a better response. A clear transparent peer reviewed discussion from the original request for information in this post and the subsequent claims have left omissions. I for one would now like to know if this new latest membrane offered on the Boris web site is Quote: (Closed Circuit Research has now perfected a 'plastic style' hydrophobic membrane system. The membrane can be retro-fitted to the existing canister and is positioned by replacing the outer mesh ring. The positioning stops the migration of absorbent dust and moisture on long dives, into the inhale counterlung. Should a temporary flood occur in the inhale circuit, then water is prevented from accessing the absorbent. The membrane can simply be flushed with fresh water and dried.) End Quote Is it as claimed in this post the same as the USN Mark 16 yes or no? Was it as claimed in the post: Tested with the original EN CE submission and was the membrane tested found to have the same WOB as has been claimed? This is an ideal opportunity to discuss membranes. use it of loose it. Whats the issue here? MK15.6/16/27 have been using Porex for decades. It works - nothing new. To my eyes at least it looked and felt just like porex. what is there to discuss? In the case of Boris the membrane is there more to stop dust than to keep water out. if kevin says its wob is still within CE levels why dont you believe him? if you want to know the details of its WOB testing and if it was CE'd why ask users? - ask Kevin. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 2nd May 2006 at 13:43.
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2nd May 2006, 13:36	#38 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,104	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) if most of the unit passes and you document the failures, It is possible to still get CE certified providing the failures are not too significant. and wob is a significant requirement I smell 'agenda' all over the place - what gives? __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
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2nd May 2006, 13:48	#39 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,104	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) That's intresting seeing that the Ouroboros doesn't meet the CE requirements for breathing performance in the first place (Manual 3v0c, page 140, #6). Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB) That is strange, how can it not meet the requirements and yet be CE certified? /Jonny Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) It is possible to still get CE certified providing the failures are not too significant. and having wob a little higher than the standard when upside down- as is expected from rear CL units isnt regarded as significant. I can tell you from 1st hand experience that in that position and in all positions the wob kicks the ass out of the MK15.5 units you love so much Stefan Has the Prism passed CE ??? __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 2nd May 2006 at 13:51.
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2nd May 2006, 16:04	#40 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,798	Re: hidrofobic menbrane Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) and wob is a significant requirement I smell 'agenda' all over the place - what gives? overall yes I would agree with WOB but in this case the failure was 1 position.. I have no agenda here.. Just pointing out that just because something has CE doesnt mean it passed all tests, which is what most people think it means.. Or that an item has a CE rating means the rating has anything to do with what it may be used for... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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