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Old 17th July 2008, 12:07   #1 (permalink)
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Classic KISS or rEvo

I've been diving my YBOD Classic for abuot 4 years now, and it's been great. However I'm not doing as much diving as I was, and am thinking about maybe selling/exchanging it for a BMCL manual unit.

I like the "engineered" quality of both the rEvo and the Classis Kiss, so am considering these as my options.

Can anyone compare the 2 units, and give strengths/weaknesses of each unit, and maybe some comparisons of things like weight etc. More interested in the comparison of the mechanical design and properties of each unit, as the various PPO2 monitoring options available are all pretty much applicable to either.

Cheers

Simon
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Old 17th July 2008, 12:26   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Classic KISS or rEvo

I can only really speak for the CK so:

Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan) View Original Post
maybe some comparisons of things like weight etc.
Unrigged, no backplate, wing or cylinders but with regs and in a flight case my CK weighed 17kg at the airport check in desk.

Quote:
PPO2 monitoring options available are all pretty much applicable to either.
Options on a new CK, the naff clear plastic stock displays or the gutted cat which is the Delta P monitor. I don't like either. Alternatives:

- my personal preference is for the original black displays. They don't give any trouble provided you look after them. I've flooded one because I didn't check it when changing a battery. But they do need care because you've got metal to plastic screwed connections which are easy to overtighten

- Shearwater, it'll monitor all three cells plus deco. Downsides, all your eggs in one basket, expensive and if you get a GF then it is seriously f***ing huge. HUD option available, runs independantly of the computer.

- Subsea, never used one but the ones I've seen look a lovely bit of kit. HUD available but runs from the display.

- Sartek, a triple display superficially similar to the Subsea. I'll be able to tell you either tonight or tomorrow what it's like as there is one on it's way to me attached to a Mk15

- There are a range of PPO2 monitors which Tecme make. Never seen one up close, no experience of them

- Laguna do a variety of modules which could be used to monitor PO2 on a KISS. They also do a kit to convert the CK to an electronic rebreather. Their stuff looks really nice and from conversations I've had with them, Wayne seems really helpful (I think he's a member here).

Big difference, a quick drive to Switzerland and you are likely to get away with no tax on a rEvo, you are unlikely to get away unscathed by HM Licensed Pickpocketing with a new CK.

Hope that helps some way.

Cheers,

Stuart

Last edited by lizardland; 17th July 2008 at 12:29..
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Old 17th July 2008, 12:36   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Classic KISS or rEvo

I have a Shearwatered up Classic KISS and it is superb, does exactly what I expected and I'm very happy.

That said rEvo's wheren't around when I purchased the KISS, if I where doing it all now I would definitely be test diving a rEvo.

Paul's unit looks excellent and well put together (I've only seen them at shows) Importantly for me he has chosen to work with Shearwater computers which are IMO superb (Yes the GF is big but I have Fat English arms so it causes me no problems)
The small profile of the rEvo, multitude of options, modularity and their obvious efforts to constantly improve the unit make it a big temptation.

Either way you've got a tough but ultimately great choice- I don't think either would be dissapointing.
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Old 17th July 2008, 12:45   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Classic KISS or rEvo

If your buying new and dont mind doing the course then get the rEvo

There's one available with a Shearwater display which is defo the one id get as the standard rEvo displays are clunky and horable.

HUD is less than perfict but its a HUD. Like me I bet youd prefer a Shearwater hand set and a Shearwater HUD.

It is just so beautifully balanced as a unit I cant see you as anything but over the moon with it. Lovely little bit of attention to detail with the cylinder clamps and so so easy to work on. The super eficient scrubber is great too.

It just needs a BOV and its ready to rock.

If your after S/H then idealy a KISS that already has a Shearwater display and HUD. If not then a cheep KISS and a quick upgrade. The bog standard KISS (asuming a BOV that works) and a Shearwater HUD being my persoanl minimum cost option.


The new KISS with the VR3 display HUD etc is the only serious contender for the Shearwater rEvo


The choice being between a rEvo Mk1 (twin HUD Twin Revo dreams) and a KISS no HUD and Manual display? Id probably opt for the rEvo but those hand sets might drive me potty in the end.


ATB

Mark


PS Fancy the Solsett + scallops Thursday and a 45-50m on the Friday 28/29th Aug on Tango? Sleep on tango for the night? With Petes lot, should be a laugh. You dive with me.

ATB

Mark
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Old 17th July 2008, 12:56   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Classic KISS or rEvo

Simon: I have both a KISS Classic and an rEvo. I have had the Classic for about 4 years. The rEvo for 8 months. The diving I do is usually in the Northeast US. Depths to 250' max.

Both are great units. The KISS scrubber and the stock rEvo scrubber have similar durations. Both are efficient within thier stated design parameters.

The KISS without backplate, tanks or hoses weighs 24# the rEvo without tanks or hoses weighs 32#. No backplate is used with the rEvo as it is incorporated in the design. For travel with the KISS, I have a plastic backplate to save weight. (Deep Sea Supply)

The KISS would be easier to travel with and can utilize many different tank sizes without a problem.

The rEvo PO2 display utilizing 4 sensors and a HUD, is superior to either choice that Jetsam offers. I have the Sartek display on my KISS and like it. No HUD though. That said, you can utilize any other aftermarket display and incorporate a HUD on the KISS.

The rEvo MAY have a slightly better WOB than the KISS. It is really hard to tell. Alot depends on what sorb you are using and how tightly it is packed.
Machines measure this better than divers. I would say it is not material to the choice of units.

You cannot go wrong buying either. Both are tough units. My experience with the KISS is longer, and it has endured much rough treatment over the years without problems.

The rEvo is easier to clean and prepare than the KISS. Mainly due to not having to remove and replace the counterlungs. The rEvo also has a better ADV than the KISS and also has a manual add for the DILL.

I do not like the O2 add button on the rEvo. I would prefer it be available for use with either hand and be mounted in a more user friendly area. Such as the chest area.

I us a BOV on both units.

Let me know if you need any other info. Good luck! Peter
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Old 17th July 2008, 13:03   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Classic KISS or rEvo

No comparison. Have had each, but the rEvo has passed the CK from a technical standpoint. Pete gives a good comparison. With that said, find me one person who has sold a rEvo to buy a CK? I can lead you to several who have sold CK's to buy a rEvo though.

The livability of the rEvo is far better than the KISS. That's not all "diving" livability. Ease of scrubber servicing, snap-on brackets for cylinders and the universal rails down the sides of the chassis for attachment of suit or offboard 02 bottles, light packs, etc... all make the rEvo a far better rig. CK has virtually zero water-trap potential, and the rEvo has some, so that's another advantage. The KISS BOV is a low performance one from a WOB standpoint, so lack of it on the rEvo is not a disadvantage, just buy one and add it. As Pete says, for scootering it would be nice to have an 02 manual add on the chest of the rEvo (assuming that you are using it mCCR and not with the solenoid option). rEvo has an optional manual add button for the chest harness that allows this, just check it off on the order form (it's the offboard gas addition valve) and then plumb a hose from your onboard 02 bottle to it and you're all set (and can add any other offboard gas there too). For non-scootering, I've found the position of the add valves to be just fine, in fact they are just about perfect. Always in the same spot (similar to a Mark-15, in fact).

For travel, the rEvo can be had in titanium (at a cost, naturally), bringing the weight down to CK numbers. Plus there is a "short body" rig available designed for travel (in stainless or titanium). Pick the one that serves your needs.

As far as upgrade paths, the rEvo has unlimited expansion potential. The expedition sized large radial scrubbers are likely the best available for any rig. Upgrade from mCCR to eCCR with full trimix deco (Shearwater controller) is another upgrade path. From a travel (titanium) mCCR with the axial scrubbers to the full sized stainless steel one with interchangable axial/radial scrubbers and Shearwater controller, it's all a matter of picking the right options. No third party components other than BOV required (and that'll likely come too).

Mark Chase has a few words for the rEvodream handsets. I've been using them for a year and I respectfully disagree: They are superb. Turn them on.... that's all. They are auto shut down after the loop sees air at the and of the dive (open the rig up), or you can turn them off. That's the extent of the daily interface. My guess based on what Mark wrote earlier is that he had one demonstrated to him by someone who had not really been properly instructed on how to use the inertial 'tap switch' that allow the handsets to be turned on, off, and calibrated by simply tapping them. Once I show someone how to do it it's entirely pain free. Remove that 'pain' from the equation and you have a dual PP02 monitor driving an excellent HUD. Mark, I widh you were closer so I could show you how easy it really is. Most new users tap too hard and too fast... the key is a LIGHT tap and NOT TO HURRY between taps. To turn on: Tap three times, wait for the HUD to flash twice (asking for confirmation) and tap twice. Go diving. When you surface you can either (A) turn them off (one tap, HUD flashes, Three taps, HUD flashes, two taps), or (B) add some diluent to drop the loop PP02 and trigger the auto shut-off timer, or (C): pop off the scrubber lid, which drops the PP02 and triggers the auto shut-off timer. In any event it's easy.


Dave

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Old 17th July 2008, 17:09   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Classic KISS or rEvo

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave ******) View Original Post
With that said, find me one person who has sold a rEvo to buy a CK? I can lead you to several who have sold CK's to buy a rEvo though.
.
This is, so far, nothing you can use to compare.
The rEvo have had their "new on the market upswing" the last year and Kiss has been around for ten. BUT If someone during this short period, one year, have bought a rEvo, sold it and bought a Kiss instead it should be very interesting to know why.

I have read all the threads about rEvo but never tried one myself. One of the things that I donīt like is the rEvodream. The PO2 displays is "all over" instead of in one place where it's easy have a overwiew over all three cells.
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Old 17th July 2008, 17:18   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Classic KISS or rEvo

Quote: (Originally Posted by fredrik) View Original Post
One of the things that I donīt like is the rEvodream. The PO2 displays is "all over" instead of in one place where it's easy have a overwiew over all three cells.
Hi Fredrik, as you say.. first try and then see!

most divers simply click the dreams on their belt, so it's always there, and you have all 3/4 cells in front of your nose.

and if this is really holding you off after trying, then go for the shearwater solutions we offer

paul
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Old 17th July 2008, 17:24   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Classic KISS or rEvo

For the "fun" is a good idea to use a micro vanne instead of the birdie hole to go deeper? On a chest a la KISS

Other point, an oxy and dil command a la Orobouros Ie with QC on chest seem to me a good option for cave diving on MCCR and what about you?
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Old 17th July 2008, 17:30   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Classic KISS or rEvo

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tautaz) View Original Post
For the "fun" is a good idea to use a micro vanne instead of the birdie hole to go deeper? On a chest a la KISS
far more easy: keep the birdie, click a 1 liter oxigen tank on the side with a small first stage (like a cleaned drysuit stage) and plug it into the offboard kit, on your chest: you only use it deeper than 95m, where the flow of the birdie goes to far down.

on all your other dives less then 95m, you keep the simple birdie system: works always, flow always perfect, no worries, relaxed diving

paul
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