moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors

Faceless · 29th June 2006, 12:03

Just read the following article about some minor modification of Inspro,
http://www.nobubblediving.com/inspirationpuffer.htm
Int it author claims around possibility of appearing thin film of water like soap bubble over galvanic O2 sensor rendering it to fail to read correct PPO2.
I.e. there is a need to clear away the vapor from sensors.
Way the author offer solution to this problem is to make some kind of diluent puffer over all three cells.
Did you consider any possibility of this situation being happen in O.R. rebreather, and if yes, how do you plan to deal with it?

**nigelh** · 29th June 2006, 12:15

I seem to remember this coming up before and we all looked round and said "Huh?"

There are no new problems with rebreathers and if it hasn't shown up yet it isn't a problem.

I think I responded that the phrase 'small film of water' didn't match my rebreather.
'Dripping wet' was more like it.

RebreatherDave · 22nd August 2006, 22:16

Unless you have dishwashing soap residue in yoru scrubber head, and you use sensors with hydrophobic membranes, I think this a a solution looking for a problem.

I do admire the execution of the puffer by the mod originator though......very similar to the Cis.

***jradomski*** · 22nd August 2006, 22:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by Faceless)

Just read the following article about some minor modification of Inspro,
http://www.nobubblediving.com/inspirationpuffer.htm
Int it author claims around possibility of appearing thin film of water like soap bubble over galvanic O2 sensor rendering it to fail to read correct PPO2.
I.e. there is a need to clear away the vapor from sensors.
Way the author offer solution to this problem is to make some kind of diluent puffer over all three cells.
Did you consider any possibility of this situation being happen in O.R. rebreather, and if yes, how do you plan to deal with it?

Teledyne came out with an alert shortly after this was posted, warning against this practice as it can force water into the cell (and it was seen on multiple "failed" r-17" sensors that were examined after they were sent in for warranty when used on a CIS which does exactly this..

***diverklondike*** · 22nd August 2006, 22:59

Dave Sutton came up with this mod "for the Inspiration" to address some challenges that many Inspiration divers were dealing with at the time. (I agree a very slick solutions) Over time they have seemed to fade away with changes that were made to cells and a post from AP on how to reduce back pressure on the cells. For what it's worth the cells in my head (Hammerhead) alway have water drops on them but I have never had any tracking issues that would cause me to consider using such a mod.

"If it's not broken... Don't fix it.."

Dive Safe

Mark

***jradomski*** · 22nd August 2006, 23:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

Dave Sutton came up with this mod to address some challenges that many Inspiration divers were dealing with at the time. (I agree a very slick solutions) Over time they have seemed to fade away with changes that were made to cells and a post from AP on how to reduce back pressure on the cells. For what it's worth the cells in my head (Hammerhead) alway have water drops on them but I have never had any tracking issues that would cause me to consider using such a mod.

"If it's not broken... Don't fix it.."

Dive Safe

Mark

The cis blows diluent at the sensors, this was before the above mod.....

Sutty · 23rd August 2006, 16:28

I have had cells under-read, which were then seen to have large droplets of condensation covering most of the cell face on stripping the unit after surfacing (I'm talking Classic Kiss). This was with just 1hr dives in warm water. I would be interested to hear more of the alert from Teledyne, as I'd been wondering about a similar sort of mod.

Neil

***jradomski*** · 23rd August 2006, 20:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty)

I have had cells under-read, which were then seen to have large droplets of condensation covering most of the cell face on stripping the unit after surfacing (I'm talking Classic Kiss). This was with just 1hr dives in warm water. I would be interested to hear more of the alert from Teledyne, as I'd been wondering about a similar sort of mod.

Neil

I am pretty sure I no longer have a copy of the email, but I will see if the person who gave it to me retained a copy..

Drmike · 24th August 2006, 08:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by RebreatherDave)

Unless you have dishwashing soap residue in yoru scrubber head, and you use sensors with hydrophobic membranes, I think this a a solution looking for a problem.

My experience in warm water/long/multiple dives per day, was quite the opposite with the Inspiration. Very frequent cell errors due to condenstation/water droplets on cell faces and having to bugger about drying heads/cell faces with bits of twisted tissue paper between every dive (something Ive never have had to do on MK15.5 or Boris) was one of the deciding factors in selling my Inspiration.

Scubascooby · 22nd November 2006, 11:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

I am pretty sure I no longer have a copy of the email, but I will see if the person who gave it to me retained a copy..

I remember hearing about this alert.

29th June 2006, 12:03	#1 (permalink)
Faceless New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Location: France, Montpellier Posts: 88	moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors Just read the following article about some minor modification of Inspro, http://www.nobubblediving.com/inspirationpuffer.htm Int it author claims around possibility of appearing thin film of water like soap bubble over galvanic O2 sensor rendering it to fail to read correct PPO2. I.e. there is a need to clear away the vapor from sensors. Way the author offer solution to this problem is to make some kind of diluent puffer over all three cells. Did you consider any possibility of this situation being happen in O.R. rebreather, and if yes, how do you plan to deal with it?
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29th June 2006, 12:15	#2 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 792	Re: moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors I seem to remember this coming up before and we all looked round and said "Huh?" There are no new problems with rebreathers and if it hasn't shown up yet it isn't a problem. I think I responded that the phrase 'small film of water' didn't match my rebreather. 'Dripping wet' was more like it. __________________ nigelh
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22nd August 2006, 22:16	#3 (permalink)
RebreatherDave Maximum **** Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s:** Join Date: May 2005 Location: L.A., where the debris meets the sea Posts: 227	Re: moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors Unless you have dishwashing soap residue in yoru scrubber head, and you use sensors with hydrophobic membranes, I think this a a solution looking for a problem. I do admire the execution of the puffer by the mod originator though......very similar to the Cis.
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22nd August 2006, 22:21	#4 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by Faceless) Just read the following article about some minor modification of Inspro, http://www.nobubblediving.com/inspirationpuffer.htm Int it author claims around possibility of appearing thin film of water like soap bubble over galvanic O2 sensor rendering it to fail to read correct PPO2. I.e. there is a need to clear away the vapor from sensors. Way the author offer solution to this problem is to make some kind of diluent puffer over all three cells. Did you consider any possibility of this situation being happen in O.R. rebreather, and if yes, how do you plan to deal with it? Teledyne came out with an alert shortly after this was posted, warning against this practice as it can force water into the cell (and it was seen on multiple "failed" r-17" sensors that were examined after they were sent in for warranty when used on a CIS which does exactly this.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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22nd August 2006, 22:59	#5 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,463	Re: moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors Dave Sutton came up with this mod "for the Inspiration" to address some challenges that many Inspiration divers were dealing with at the time. (I agree a very slick solutions) Over time they have seemed to fade away with changes that were made to cells and a post from AP on how to reduce back pressure on the cells. For what it's worth the cells in my head (Hammerhead) alway have water drops on them but I have never had any tracking issues that would cause me to consider using such a mod. "If it's not broken... Don't fix it.." Dive Safe Mark Last edited by diverklondike : 22nd August 2006 at 23:48.
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22nd August 2006, 23:09	#6 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) Dave Sutton came up with this mod to address some challenges that many Inspiration divers were dealing with at the time. (I agree a very slick solutions) Over time they have seemed to fade away with changes that were made to cells and a post from AP on how to reduce back pressure on the cells. For what it's worth the cells in my head (Hammerhead) alway have water drops on them but I have never had any tracking issues that would cause me to consider using such a mod. "If it's not broken... Don't fix it.." Dive Safe Mark The cis blows diluent at the sensors, this was before the above mod..... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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23rd August 2006, 16:28	#7 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 775	Re: moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors I have had cells under-read, which were then seen to have large droplets of condensation covering most of the cell face on stripping the unit after surfacing (I'm talking Classic Kiss). This was with just 1hr dives in warm water. I would be interested to hear more of the alert from Teledyne, as I'd been wondering about a similar sort of mod. Neil __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource.
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23rd August 2006, 20:52	#8 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty) I have had cells under-read, which were then seen to have large droplets of condensation covering most of the cell face on stripping the unit after surfacing (I'm talking Classic Kiss). This was with just 1hr dives in warm water. I would be interested to hear more of the alert from Teledyne, as I'd been wondering about a similar sort of mod. Neil I am pretty sure I no longer have a copy of the email, but I will see if the person who gave it to me retained a copy.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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24th August 2006, 08:19	#9 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by RebreatherDave) Unless you have dishwashing soap residue in yoru scrubber head, and you use sensors with hydrophobic membranes, I think this a a solution looking for a problem. My experience in warm water/long/multiple dives per day, was quite the opposite with the Inspiration. Very frequent cell errors due to condenstation/water droplets on cell faces and having to bugger about drying heads/cell faces with bits of twisted tissue paper between every dive (something Ive never have had to do on MK15.5 or Boris) was one of the deciding factors in selling my Inspiration. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
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22nd November 2006, 11:07	#10 (permalink)
Scubascooby Better Off Out of the EU Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 329	Re: moisture & "bubbles" over O2 sensors Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) I am pretty sure I no longer have a copy of the email, but I will see if the person who gave it to me retained a copy.. I remember hearing about this alert. __________________ "dove" is NOT the past tense of "dive"
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