Open source, I see problems. Questions.

divetheworld

Alex,

Did you know that this is the old Inspo mush-valves? The 4leg was replaced with a Drager clone a little while ago.

Brent

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divetheworld

Steev,

You might not have followed most of the discussion relating to the different models.
Alex promised many moons ago that there would always be a completely unrestricted "expedition" model for those who want it.

Alex,
Perhaps you need to re-illiterate this at some point so it is fully understood that those who want ultimate safety can have it, those who want reliable self-tinker units will not be precluded from owning a DL Rebreather.

Brent

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PhilSiswick

Not carping, but based on what Alex has said in this post, the Expedition will only be available with appropriate training.

Cheers,

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Phil

No comment on open circuit... it's an evolutionary dead end not really worth discussing here. Dave Sutton, 2007

I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007

www.hugsac.org.uk

AD_ward9

Thanks, Brent: you are right, the drawing of the Inspo mouthpiece is based on a 2002 Inspo, which I thought would make a good comparison so people have some reference point. Do you have the dimensions of the new unit, perhaps a drawing to post in the same manner? I could post the Draeger Dolphin or LAR V mouthpiece, but I just intended to give a point of reference as to the breathing resistance. The mushrooms for which we have done the hard tooling (giving mushrooms shown in fetching colours below), are the same diameter as the Draeger but much more flexible (20 dur. silicone instead of 40 or so). The softness means they make a soft clicking noise as they open and close, so the diver can tell immediately if they are working or not mid-dive.

Thanks for highlighting this Brent. It is correct, there is a completely unrestricted expedition unit.
Someone buying it by showing just an Open Water card and 5 dives, would be a bit worrying, so it does need an instructor to unlock. Anyone doing this sort of diving is usually either an instructor or knows very well a lot of instructors, so I can't see this being an issue in practice other than someone on the really dark side of the loon.

Cheers

Alex

Attached Images

Mushrooms.JPG (99.3 KB, 104 views)

Sponge-Bob

Alex,
With all the best intentions in the world (and I know you have worked hard on this one for the greater good) you can't protect people from themselves.

Every free American has the right to kill himself, its in the constitution!

I think your trying to be to many things to to many people. A recreational unit locked out that can be upgraded to TX is a good idea in theory, but the idea of running to a supplier, being held over a barrel to get a unit un locked is doomed to failure.

I think its a fair assumption to say that most people on this forum are above and beyond a 'nanny' unit. Most mix their own gas, make their own units and print their own cert cards. They also take responsibility for their own actions. They are a different breed of diver very unlike the PADI paddlers we see at resorts ( no offence to all who are)

I like many believe in myself. You just need to make a unit that does exactly what is says on the tin that the diver can believe in that will not let the diver down.

I resent being charged £50 for a new battery in a computer. No way am I prepared to run to an instructor for a code. The Abyss software has the same system. I've changed my desk topn computer, my software is locked out, Abyss has go 'tits' up. How happy am I? My ADv. Mxd Gas software has suddenly gone demo!

You get the point?

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If you want a Guarantee.....Buy a toaster!

divetheworld

AW,

As soon as I get home I'll send you a dwg and a picture mate.

Brent

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Genesis

The problem with the Trimix nanny nonsense is that there's no valid reason whatsoever to use air as a diluent even at Mod 1 limits.

Mod 1 being sport diving within NDLs (or close to them) and within 130'.

But - the 80-130' range is valid for Mod 1 cert holders (for those who believe in plastic cards) and there is no reason not to permit 21/35 to be used there. Indeed, there is little reason not to use it at all. It can be dove on air deco tables without harm, it has no narcotic effect of materiality in the sport diving range (Nitrox DOES), it is easier to breathe (perhaps not an issueon the OR in theory but in reality WOB is always a factor as is CO2 buildup in the body), etc.

In short, there's no reason for an "air only" cert or an "air only" unit. I can see not allowing a hypoxic mix - e.g. not more than a 35% helium content in the diluent (allowing 21/35 but not 16/50 or 10/70) - but to restrict a unit to "air only" is just plain foolish.

Demanding that someone dive a less safe breathing mix is one of the idiocies that prevents me from supporting the diving industry. It is why I decided to build rather than buy the O2ptima (DiveRite rescinded their stupidity later) and I suspect that you're going to get a LOT of pushback on this one.

Never mind the risk of being orphaned if your firm goes tits up or simply decides not support the device any more. It happens all the time. Abyss screwed a boatload of people like this when they died and the landscape is littered with various pieces of technological gear that are full of proprietary bits that can't be replaced or serviced. To design in such a monstrosity such that the unit might decide to turn itself into a paperweight is, I believe, going to mean you will sell very few of these devices in the sport marketplace.

I suspect that I, along with many others, will actively campaign against not only their adoption but also against any firm that decides to market this design under their own label.

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"A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American."
http://www.denninger.net
http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket

divetheworld

Same thing happened to my commie version, As it turns out, it may have been the best thing to happen to it.


B

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AD_ward9

You hit the nail on the head.

The eCCR required by a contingent on this forum is a fully fledged extreme technical unit doing 90m and beyond.

The eCCR most divers require is to see the fishes somewhere between 9ft and 90ft. Some of those are good divers, but at the other end of the spectrum are those who cannot even keep a weight belt on, even after having sculpted their anatomy so it has a large platform to sit on!

There is a substantial difference (>100%) in the cost of build to serve those two different applications.

A lot of the former are instructors, or know an instructor to nobble, so getting hold of a unit and using it for extreme dives is not a problem other than for a small outlay.

In your case Mark, you would probably ask for one for free as sponsorship, and so would anyone else doing the level of diving you did. (Sponsorship issues to marketing companies please, not me).

Is anyone seriously suggesting that someone should be invited to turn up at a dive shop with no certs at all, unknown, buys the unit, gas from Air Products/BOC/Acme and the next thing he is sitting beside you on a bench on a dive boat doing mid level technical dives such as the Doria?

Before anyone asks, yes you can do that without cert cards (It is years since I got asked for a cert card, albeit infamy may have a part in that, but not in every case). In fact, Mark, I can't remember anyone ever asking us for any cert card when we did dives together and used their boat or gas, or even all their kit!

Alex

Mark Chase

Like many i am looking forward to this unit very much. Also like many I will expect to be able to dive it to what ever depth I chose. I am TDI Mod3 qualified which certs you down to 100m. I have already been to 105 and there are a couple of 125 m wrecks on my short list and the Victoria at 145. None of which i am certified to dive because there is nothing past Mod3

When / if i purchased this unit the very worst i expect is a one day cross over course to show me how the various functions work. I expect to be able to purchase a full on trimix any depth I like version.

If thats not the case I doubt if I will buy one till it comes ready to rock second hand. (Note the trimix ready Boris units available)

Finally I am concerned about the validity of a safety feature that forces you off loop if you go outside accepted operational norms. I cant help thinking of HALL killing all the crew. I don't want a unit that can fail and decide to force me OC due to a short circuit.

Making it idiot proof is a nice idea but to me it adds unnecessary complexity, more to go wrong and is targeted at divers who will find a way of killing them selves despite all your efforts.

Any how what do I know. All i do know is it sounds fantastic and I cant wait to see it for real.

ATB

Mark Chase

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Is it supposed to make that noise ?

I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit.

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