[Gilles]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw)

hello Jon O,

regarding your concerns about mistakenly pressing the lung and adding some dil in i suggest you use a shut off valve on the ADV. then there is no problem. try it and let me know.

Spyros

Spyros;

I will contradict you here. Although I believe in having the shut-off valve, I would recommend to leave it open until having it open causes a problem.

I contradict all who subscribe to routinely shutting it once at bottom.

Why not leave it open and provide an easy and instant means to flush out your loop?(that's the way it works on the Meg anyway).

Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw)

Gilles,

i have fought with these thoughts for a long time now, and i have come to the conclusion that in case of an emergency and another diver finds you unconscious, then if is a Rebreather diver, or better say an RB familiar diver, i guess he/she should know which is which or should recognize which is which quite fast.

JohnyB would argue that he wouldn't want to be spending time analyzing the setup to ensure he's pressing the right buttons. He seemed so committed to the "right is rich" principal, that the discussion influenced me to installing a yellow man-ad hose (to my left CL).

Quote:

if is a non Rebreather familiar diver, do you think he/she can save you in any other way, apart from sticking an oc reg into your mouth?

Thanks

Absolutely not. The only way a nonRB diver could assist is if I instructed and practised the turning on of my BOV (which I normally do).

[Outlaw]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

Spyros;

I will contradict you here. Although I believe in having the shut-off valve, I would recommend to leave it open until having it open causes a problem.

I contradict all who subscribe to routinely shutting it once at bottom.

Why not leave it open and provide an easy and instant means to flush out your loop?(that's the way it works on the Meg anyway).




JohnyB would argue that he wouldn't want to be spending time analyzing the setup to ensure he's pressing the right buttons. He seemed so committed to the "right is rich" principal, that the discussion influenced me to installing a yellow man-ad hose (to my left CL).




Absolutely not. The only way a nonRB diver could assist is if I instructed and practised the turning on of my BOV (which I normally do).

hey Gilles,

always nice to discuss these sort of things. dont' know hijacking thethread but, sometimes, just by moving your left arm, the ADV starts pumping dil inside, and it ruins the mix. personally, i have found it to work fine for me. it became an instict move now, and i can handle open/closing the shut off valve with one hand. this way it doesn't affect my mix unless i want to.

also, keeping the minima amount of gas inthe lungs is another thing. it seems that i have big lungs, and each time i take a breath, the ADV used to screw up everything .

it was just a sugestion. regarding your thoughts about the discussion with Jonny, i would suggest you put a green hose instead of the yellow on the O2. i guess more or less divers can recognize that colour to be associated with o2 or richer mix...

just another thought. (i mean you made the move to change colour, why not green?) no offence Gilles, not trying to point out things here. i highly respect your opinion.

also, just thinking that if i ever found an uncosious diver onthe bottom, i would be reluctant to give him the mix he is having as i wont know what mix it is... i mean if he/she is uncoscious, then you wonder how long have they been like that? is it worth trying to stick air though their mouth? but if they are breathing, i would give them my bail out mix, as i will be sure that that is a safe gas to let him/her breath.

a few thoughts ...

Thanks.

[JonnyB]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw)

Gilles,

i have fought with these thoughts for a long time now, and i have come to the conclusion that in case of an emergency and another diver finds you unconscious, then if is a Rebreather diver, or better say an RB familiar diver, i guess he/she should know which is which or should recognize which is which quite fast. if is a non RB familiar diver, do you think he/she can save you in any other way, apart from sticking an oc reg into your mouth? personally i doubt it. off course the colour might increase chances, but i really think that if RB familiar, then one would know. also one would recognize what ADV valve is...

make a poll? statistically speaking, is there any Rebreather diver who is not in a position to recognize an ADV? how many think that an OC non RB familiar diver would recognize an ADV valve, and or which is which on a RB.

just my personal thoughts.

Thanks

Hi Spyros, i do not agree to 100%
Nor do i do with you Giles.

Colours have the ability to get absorbed at depth. So i would not trust a color marking. I would try to find the source and follow the hose. If i know the unit i might also act on instinct and add manual diluent in case i try to assist a fellow diver in need. If he then has O2 connected that might directly attribute to the divers death.
Secondly Spyros, dont assume that Rebreather divers know the configuration of other units, or event the special configuration of your unit.
I can tell you that the procedure of flushing the loop of an unconsious diver on a Meg differs from the procedure on the KISS, Inspo, Optima etc
I make sure that the buddy i am diving mwith knows my setup, him being on OC or CC.

Just my 2 cents!
Now Merry Christmas Everyone.

/Jonny

[JonnyB]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

JohnyB would argue that he wouldn't want to be spending time analyzing the setup to ensure he's pressing the right buttons. He seemed so committed to the "right is rich" principal, that the discussion influenced me to installing a yellow man-ad hose (to my left CL).

I didnt see this before i did my new post.
Gilles, you know me too well!
Merry Christmas my friend.

/Jonny

[Outlaw]

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

...
I make sure that the buddy i am diving mwith knows my setup, him being on OC or CC.
/Jonny

i am glad we agree on something jonny. this is a well put statement.

Merry Christmass mate.

[RonMicjan]

I will shut off my slider valve on the ADV when I reach the max depth, to avoid accidently adding dil. The dil flush/ open loop drill *includes* pulling the slider valve down (on) and pressing on the ADV, so no additional time or effort involved, its all one motion.

Your 4th sensor should not be maintaining the spike level as you should only be using the manual add every 5-10 minutes or so, if it is constantly reading high, you may have a bad sensor, or a problem with your calibration procedure. When I calibrater a 4th cell (in adv housing i.e. meg) I pull the adv housing and put it in a small plastic bag and flow oxygen into the bag until I get a steady reading on the VR3 that is 4.76x the reading on air. I wouldnt calibrate it in the lung. Are you calibrating in air and verifying the cal in oxygen, or cal in oxygen and verify in air? Best to cal in oxygen and verify in air as operationally you will be closer to the cal poing when diving.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Gilles]

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

I didnt see this before i did my new post.
Gilles, you know me too well!
Merry Christmas my friend.

/Jonny

Likewise to you...and all who get to this post.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw)

hey Gilles,

sometimes, just by moving your left arm, the ADV starts pumping dil inside, and it ruins the mix.

also, keeping the minima amount of gas inthe lungs is another thing. it seems that i have big lungs, and each time i take a breath, the ADV used to screw up everything .

If having it open causes a problem, then close it. For me, it doesn't cause any problem about 90% of the time, so I don't close it for no reason.

Quote:

i would suggest you put a green hose instead of the yellow on the O2. i guess more or less divers can recognize that colour to be associated with o2 or richer mix...

just another thought. (i mean you made the move to change colour, why not green?) no offence Gilles,

I had the yellow hose in my spares. I don't think the color is as important as being able to see it and where it goes. On me you see a bright yellow line from my left man-ad to right onboard tank.

Don't worry, I love having differing opinion, with a civil discussion. There's almost always something learned. Anyone with half-decent intentions will have great difficulty offending me (famous last words).

Quote:

also, just thinking that if i ever found an uncosious diver onthe bottom, i would be reluctant to give him the mix he is having as i wont know what mix it is... i mean if he/she is uncoscious, then you wonder how long have they been like that? is it worth trying to stick air though their mouth? but if they are breathing, i would give them my bail out mix, as i will be sure that that is a safe gas to let him/her breath.

a few thoughts ...

Thanks.

If I found an unconcious Rebreather buddy (without BOV), I think I would make an immediate (attempted) controlled acsent to surface, and begin resuscitation maneouvres.

With a BOV, switch it on. If no bubbles, action as above. With bubbles, then there's options.

[Lancer4545]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

When I calibrater a 4th cell (in adv housing i.e. meg) I pull the adv housing and put it in a small plastic bag and flow oxygen into the bag until I get a steady reading on the VR3 that is 4.76x the reading on air. I wouldnt calibrate it in the lung. Are you calibrating in air and verifying the cal in oxygen, or cal in oxygen and verify in air? Best to cal in oxygen and verify in air as operationally you will be closer to the cal poing when diving.

Hey Ron,

That's a great idea. I have been wasting heaps of O2 trying to get the cell to it's maximum reading whilst still in the CL. I tried your method calibrating it in a plastic bag and it was so easy not to mention the tiny amount of O2 used!!

On another note, I dived last week with the O2 manual add connected to the exhale CL and have to say I had no trouble going for the right manual add valve and the VR3 behaved beautifully and followed the handset readings within a couple of seconds.

One thing I did find was I needed to isolate the ADV as it was just too close to the MGB valve and was too easy to accidentally fire it. I am diving with a Drager FFM and have the ADV isolated almost full time now because to add to the loop I inhale through my nose and exhale through my mouth into the loop.

All up a win win situation......

Lance