My O2ptima Configuration

n2diving · 24th March 2007, 16:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by seafox)

I have experienced that interesting feature as well.

Not having instant access to a well stocked "stockroom" to replace it, and being in the Carribean, I forced some 02 lub into the valves and that seemed to fix the spongy problem. So far anyways!

Cornel

Hmmm that might be a 'quick fix', but I think the lube will eventually turn to crud in seawater and the underlying problem of the o-ring will have to be addressed.

You could try this.... unscrew entire Dil addition valve from CL, then peel off the little Dive Rite badge on the center top of the valve... under it will you find a hex head screw. Stick a hex wrench in the bottom and top of the valve and unscrew and remove.... clean the barrel, replace with 008 o-rings (I used Viton but I doubt it matters), lube if you like (I wouldn't) and reassemble....

seafox · 24th March 2007, 22:02

Thanks Mark, I'll give it a try!

Cornel

gafftape42 · 25th March 2007, 18:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

2) The standard over the shoulder compact SPG's have been removed. In their place are the small mini-spg's that screw directly into to HP port on the first stages.

I understand that you don't consume much gas on a properly functioning CCR and you are likely to run out of scrubber before gas, but I don't understand why you would not want to be able verify the pressure in the tanks throughout the dive. Wouldn't that info be helpful to diagnose problems?

n2diving · 25th March 2007, 19:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by gafftape42)

I understand that you don't consume much gas on a properly functioning CCR and you are likely to run out of scrubber before gas, but I don't understand why you would not want to be able verify the pressure in the tanks throughout the dive. Wouldn't that info be helpful to diagnose problems?

It's not clear to me what problem the spg would allow me to diagnose during a dive that would change my reaction to the problem. 'No Dil' is either valve off, cylinder empty or ADV off or malfunctioning. 'No O2' is valve off, cylinder empty or solenoid stuck closed. Add gas manually, check the valve and if that doesn't work the cylinder is empty or the first stage has failed.... I wouldn't bother to look at the spg, if I can't fix the problem with manual addition and everything is turned on then the dive is over... follow emergency procedures. I don't even particularly trust spgs in the first place, I've had several experiences over a life time of diving where a first stage failed to deliver gas, yet the spg said there was plenty.

There is little value to our knowing the gas volume in our rebreather cylinders, as the volume does not control the dive as it does on OC. Even with a full day of 5 or 6 hours of diving Lisa and I return with the Dil cylinders nearly full and the O2 cylinders far from empty, and that's with 13's. We do use a separate gauge on the cylinders to verify they are full as part of our analysis routine immediately before mounting them in the unit. There are other techniques in the pre-breathe checklist that can detect problems such as unopened valves. Any leak, even a tiny one that would not be detected via the spg, is quite apparent as bubbles in the water.

SPG leaks and high-pressure hose failures are a commonplace equipment issue, and on a rebreather the effects can be magnified due to the small gas supply volumes. The minor benefits of spgs are only convience and for this convience, the presence of the spgs carries the risk of significant gas loss. Thus, we have deleted the traditional spgs from the O2tpima, and I'm aware of some other models that don't include spgs from the outset.

Note, we are not cave diving... where frequent depth changes are part of the dive, causing frequent Dil additions and the diver needs to know their Dil so I suppose they might need an spg and still I might not put a gauge on my O2. I don't know the CCR cave rules for Dil but I suppose even then it wouldn't really matter if it was more than planned then plug in offboard bailout, if so then no spg on Dil seems the lower risk solution. I haven't looked, but surely the pros and cons of spg's on CCR units has been discussed some where in the Rebreather World forums and some kind soul can provide a link....

-- Mark

**JPJones** · 13th April 2007, 00:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

It's not clear to me what problem the spg would allow me to diagnose during a dive that would change my reaction to the problem. 'No Dil' is either valve off, cylinder empty or ADV off or malfunctioning. 'No O2' is valve off, cylinder empty or solenoid stuck closed. Add gas manually, check the valve and if that doesn't work the cylinder is empty or the first stage has failed.... I wouldn't bother to look at the spg, if I can't fix the problem with manual addition and everything is turned on then the dive is over... follow emergency procedures. I don't even particularly trust spgs in the first place, I've had several experiences over a life time of diving where a first stage failed to deliver gas, yet the spg said there was plenty.

There is little value to our knowing the gas volume in our rebreather cylinders, as the volume does not control the dive as it does on OC. Even with a full day of 5 or 6 hours of diving Lisa and I return with the Dil cylinders nearly full and the O2 cylinders far from empty, and that's with 13's. We do use a separate gauge on the cylinders to verify they are full as part of our analysis routine immediately before mounting them in the unit. There are other techniques in the pre-breathe checklist that can detect problems such as unopened valves. Any leak, even a tiny one that would not be detected via the spg, is quite apparent as bubbles in the water.

SPG leaks and high-pressure hose failures are a commonplace equipment issue, and on a rebreather the effects can be magnified due to the small gas supply volumes. The minor benefits of spgs are only convience and for this convience, the presence of the spgs carries the risk of significant gas loss. Thus, we have deleted the traditional spgs from the O2tpima, and I'm aware of some other models that don't include spgs from the outset.

Note, we are not cave diving... where frequent depth changes are part of the dive, causing frequent Dil additions and the diver needs to know their Dil so I suppose they might need an spg and still I might not put a gauge on my O2. I don't know the CCR cave rules for Dil but I suppose even then it wouldn't really matter if it was more than planned then plug in offboard bailout, if so then no spg on Dil seems the lower risk solution. I haven't looked, but surely the pros and cons of spg's on CCR units has been discussed some where in the Rebreather World forums and some kind soul can provide a link....

-- Mark

I recommend SPG's they require more maintance but on long dives it's nice to know where everything is. I still have the original SPG's on my Optima and replaced the barrel O-rings once and I have over 1500 dives on it. We follow the rule of thirds in a cave so you do have to know how much dil you have.

**vidodivr** · 13th April 2007, 02:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

There is little value to our knowing the gas volume in our rebreather cylinders, as the volume does not control the dive as it does on OC.
-- Mark

Tell that to Curly from the stooges thread, who had his hose come off and got it sorted and was able to get back on the loop with confidence due to knowing how much dil he still had left. If he had been diving button/no guages, he'd only be guessing how much dil he had. Bailing would have been the best decision, when in fact he had enough dil to get him up safe!

bluedjango1 · 13th April 2007, 03:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by JPJones)

I recommend SPG's they require more maintance but on long dives it's nice to know where everything is. I still have the original SPG's on my Optima and replaced the barrel O-rings once and I have over 1500 dives on it. We follow the rule of thirds in a cave so you do have to know how much dil you have.

1500 dives on an Optima. If we can assume that you stretch a canister to do 2 dives, that means $18,750 worth of Extendair Cartridges. Considering the rig has been around for what, two years? You must be packing in 3 dives a day, 5 days a week. That's impressive considering you are also working with 5 other rebreathers and open circuit cave students.

**JPJones** · 14th April 2007, 00:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by bluedjango1)

1500 dives on an Optima. If we can assume that you stretch a canister to do 2 dives, that means $18,750 worth of Extendair Cartridges. Considering the rig has been around for what, two years? You must be packing in 3 dives a day, 5 days a week. That's impressive considering you are also working with 5 other rebreathers and open circuit cave students.

Actually mine is a one of the first 3 proto types built I'm retired and have been for over 3 years. I have been doing all my teaching in an Optima for over 2 years including my open circuit cave classes. You have to remember that I was diving my proto type heavy for a year before they started production so not such a great accomplishment after all. I don't count my pocket change but I probably have spent more than $18750 on Extendair Cartridges. I actually own 2 Optimas, a Sport Kiss and a Titan. Remember in the end the man with the most toys wins.

dantheman · 14th April 2007, 01:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by vidodivr)

Bailing would have been the best decision, when in fact he had enough dil to get him up safe!

Given no hard or virtual overhead (as in Mark's and the stooges' situation) . . .

Not knowing the dil supply pressure is not an emergency.
I don't even think it's a problem.

Why would bailing be the best decision?
If you're out of dil, wouldn't you stay on the loop for ascent?

Don't get me wrong. I teach w/SPGs and recommend them,
but there is nothing truly essential about them.
--dan

mriopel · 14th April 2007, 01:30

With all the toys at John's house (rebreather's) and tanks and more, I think John's next step is to grow gills. But he is a hell of a good teacher. and know's his stuff.

24th March 2007, 16:52	#31 (permalink)
n2diving Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 271	Re: My O2ptima Configuration Quote: (Originally Posted by seafox) I have experienced that interesting feature as well. Not having instant access to a well stocked "stockroom" to replace it, and being in the Carribean, I forced some 02 lub into the valves and that seemed to fix the spongy problem. So far anyways! Cornel Hmmm that might be a 'quick fix', but I think the lube will eventually turn to crud in seawater and the underlying problem of the o-ring will have to be addressed. You could try this.... unscrew entire Dil addition valve from CL, then peel off the little Dive Rite badge on the center top of the valve... under it will you find a hex head screw. Stick a hex wrench in the bottom and top of the valve and unscrew and remove.... clean the barrel, replace with 008 o-rings (I used Viton but I doubt it matters), lube if you like (I wouldn't) and reassemble....
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24th March 2007, 22:02	#32 (permalink)
seafox 02ptima Instructor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TORONTO, CANADA -Have "02ptima" will travel! Posts: 172	Re: My O2ptima Configuration Thanks Mark, I'll give it a try! Cornel __________________ Protect the SHARKS! Excellence is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution and the vision to see obstacles as opportunities. Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards!
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25th March 2007, 18:12	#33 (permalink)
gafftape42 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 7	Re: My O2ptima Configuration Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) 2) The standard over the shoulder compact SPG's have been removed. In their place are the small mini-spg's that screw directly into to HP port on the first stages. I understand that you don't consume much gas on a properly functioning CCR and you are likely to run out of scrubber before gas, but I don't understand why you would not want to be able verify the pressure in the tanks throughout the dive. Wouldn't that info be helpful to diagnose problems?
(Offline)

25th March 2007, 19:27	#34 (permalink)
n2diving Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 271	Re: My O2ptima Configuration Quote: (Originally Posted by gafftape42) I understand that you don't consume much gas on a properly functioning CCR and you are likely to run out of scrubber before gas, but I don't understand why you would not want to be able verify the pressure in the tanks throughout the dive. Wouldn't that info be helpful to diagnose problems? It's not clear to me what problem the spg would allow me to diagnose during a dive that would change my reaction to the problem. 'No Dil' is either valve off, cylinder empty or ADV off or malfunctioning. 'No O2' is valve off, cylinder empty or solenoid stuck closed. Add gas manually, check the valve and if that doesn't work the cylinder is empty or the first stage has failed.... I wouldn't bother to look at the spg, if I can't fix the problem with manual addition and everything is turned on then the dive is over... follow emergency procedures. I don't even particularly trust spgs in the first place, I've had several experiences over a life time of diving where a first stage failed to deliver gas, yet the spg said there was plenty. There is little value to our knowing the gas volume in our rebreather cylinders, as the volume does not control the dive as it does on OC. Even with a full day of 5 or 6 hours of diving Lisa and I return with the Dil cylinders nearly full and the O2 cylinders far from empty, and that's with 13's. We do use a separate gauge on the cylinders to verify they are full as part of our analysis routine immediately before mounting them in the unit. There are other techniques in the pre-breathe checklist that can detect problems such as unopened valves. Any leak, even a tiny one that would not be detected via the spg, is quite apparent as bubbles in the water. SPG leaks and high-pressure hose failures are a commonplace equipment issue, and on a rebreather the effects can be magnified due to the small gas supply volumes. The minor benefits of spgs are only convience and for this convience, the presence of the spgs carries the risk of significant gas loss. Thus, we have deleted the traditional spgs from the O2tpima, and I'm aware of some other models that don't include spgs from the outset. Note, we are not cave diving... where frequent depth changes are part of the dive, causing frequent Dil additions and the diver needs to know their Dil so I suppose they might need an spg and still I might not put a gauge on my O2. I don't know the CCR cave rules for Dil but I suppose even then it wouldn't really matter if it was more than planned then plug in offboard bailout, if so then no spg on Dil seems the lower risk solution. I haven't looked, but surely the pros and cons of spg's on CCR units has been discussed some where in the Rebreather World forums and some kind soul can provide a link.... -- Mark Last edited by n2diving : 26th March 2007 at 17:45.
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13th April 2007, 00:29	#35 (permalink)
JPJones O2ptima Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Optima Titan Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 367	Re: My O2ptima Configuration Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) It's not clear to me what problem the spg would allow me to diagnose during a dive that would change my reaction to the problem. 'No Dil' is either valve off, cylinder empty or ADV off or malfunctioning. 'No O2' is valve off, cylinder empty or solenoid stuck closed. Add gas manually, check the valve and if that doesn't work the cylinder is empty or the first stage has failed.... I wouldn't bother to look at the spg, if I can't fix the problem with manual addition and everything is turned on then the dive is over... follow emergency procedures. I don't even particularly trust spgs in the first place, I've had several experiences over a life time of diving where a first stage failed to deliver gas, yet the spg said there was plenty. There is little value to our knowing the gas volume in our rebreather cylinders, as the volume does not control the dive as it does on OC. Even with a full day of 5 or 6 hours of diving Lisa and I return with the Dil cylinders nearly full and the O2 cylinders far from empty, and that's with 13's. We do use a separate gauge on the cylinders to verify they are full as part of our analysis routine immediately before mounting them in the unit. There are other techniques in the pre-breathe checklist that can detect problems such as unopened valves. Any leak, even a tiny one that would not be detected via the spg, is quite apparent as bubbles in the water. SPG leaks and high-pressure hose failures are a commonplace equipment issue, and on a rebreather the effects can be magnified due to the small gas supply volumes. The minor benefits of spgs are only convience and for this convience, the presence of the spgs carries the risk of significant gas loss. Thus, we have deleted the traditional spgs from the O2tpima, and I'm aware of some other models that don't include spgs from the outset. Note, we are not cave diving... where frequent depth changes are part of the dive, causing frequent Dil additions and the diver needs to know their Dil so I suppose they might need an spg and still I might not put a gauge on my O2. I don't know the CCR cave rules for Dil but I suppose even then it wouldn't really matter if it was more than planned then plug in offboard bailout, if so then no spg on Dil seems the lower risk solution. I haven't looked, but surely the pros and cons of spg's on CCR units has been discussed some where in the Rebreather World forums and some kind soul can provide a link.... -- Mark I recommend SPG's they require more maintance but on long dives it's nice to know where everything is. I still have the original SPG's on my Optima and replaced the barrel O-rings once and I have over 1500 dives on it. We follow the rule of thirds in a cave so you do have to know how much dil you have. __________________ NSS/CDS Training Chairman www.jpjscuba.com
(Offline)

13th April 2007, 02:18	#36 (permalink)
vidodivr swims in fishes toilets Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Florida/Michigan Posts: 492	Re: My O2ptima Configuration Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) There is little value to our knowing the gas volume in our rebreather cylinders, as the volume does not control the dive as it does on OC. -- Mark Tell that to Curly from the stooges thread, who had his hose come off and got it sorted and was able to get back on the loop with confidence due to knowing how much dil he still had left. If he had been diving button/no guages, he'd only be guessing how much dil he had. Bailing would have been the best decision, when in fact he had enough dil to get him up safe! __________________ Have a good one, Rob LaLonde CK #087 Narked@90 frame URM
(Online)

13th April 2007, 03:05	#37 (permalink)
bluedjango1 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: High Springs Posts: 40	Re: My O2ptima Configuration Quote: (Originally Posted by JPJones) I recommend SPG's they require more maintance but on long dives it's nice to know where everything is. I still have the original SPG's on my Optima and replaced the barrel O-rings once and I have over 1500 dives on it. We follow the rule of thirds in a cave so you do have to know how much dil you have. 1500 dives on an Optima. If we can assume that you stretch a canister to do 2 dives, that means $18,750 worth of Extendair Cartridges. Considering the rig has been around for what, two years? You must be packing in 3 dives a day, 5 days a week. That's impressive considering you are also working with 5 other rebreathers and open circuit cave students. __________________ Safe diving, Corey Last edited by bluedjango1 : 13th April 2007 at 03:49.
(Online)

14th April 2007, 00:29	#38 (permalink)
JPJones O2ptima Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Optima Titan Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 367	Re: My O2ptima Configuration Quote: (Originally Posted by bluedjango1) 1500 dives on an Optima. If we can assume that you stretch a canister to do 2 dives, that means $18,750 worth of Extendair Cartridges. Considering the rig has been around for what, two years? You must be packing in 3 dives a day, 5 days a week. That's impressive considering you are also working with 5 other rebreathers and open circuit cave students. Actually mine is a one of the first 3 proto types built I'm retired and have been for over 3 years. I have been doing all my teaching in an Optima for over 2 years including my open circuit cave classes. You have to remember that I was diving my proto type heavy for a year before they started production so not such a great accomplishment after all. I don't count my pocket change but I probably have spent more than $18750 on Extendair Cartridges. I actually own 2 Optimas, a Sport Kiss and a Titan. Remember in the end the man with the most toys wins. __________________ NSS/CDS Training Chairman www.jpjscuba.com
(Offline)

14th April 2007, 01:24	#39 (permalink)
dantheman Emoticonoclast Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Join Date: May 2005 Location: NorthEast USA Posts: 393	Re: My O2ptima Configuration Quote: (Originally Posted by vidodivr) Bailing would have been the best decision, when in fact he had enough dil to get him up safe! Given no hard or virtual overhead (as in Mark's and the stooges' situation) . . . Not knowing the dil supply pressure is not an emergency. I don't even think it's a problem. Why would bailing be the best decision? If you're out of dil, wouldn't you stay on the loop for ascent? Don't get me wrong. I teach w/SPGs and recommend them, but there is nothing truly essential about them. --dan
(Offline)

14th April 2007, 01:30	#40 (permalink)
mriopel Sadly Missed (RIP) Current Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: usa Posts: 167	Re: My O2ptima Configuration With all the toys at John's house (rebreather's) and tanks and more, I think John's next step is to grow gills. But he is a hell of a good teacher. and know's his stuff.
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