Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR

**offpro** · 1st July 2008, 20:13

Hanssing · 1st July 2008, 21:02

Well, not to rain on anyones parade, but I also bought Mels book due to the positive reviews her eon Rebreather World.

* I was extremely disappointed, its not simplified - its for dummies.

* I was expecting to learn something new only in few areas was there anything to learn, and I no training what ever in Tx.

* The book reads much as slides for a course, wich is perhaps what it is meant as.

* The pamphlet uses rewiev questions, and some of the questions were not even covered in the chapter....

* THe use of formulas are well not exactly what I would consider simplifing for a teoretic area as deep technical dives:
Who would seriously write the equation: Pp = Fg x data ?

It's Pp = Fg * Ptot
With units its: Pp [bar] = Fg [%] * Ptot [bar]

I know the above sounds harsh, and I'm perhaps a harsh critique of mathematical formulations as an engineer, but I open this thread to see what else than this book was recommended. Only to find it beeing advertised as the best thing since sliced bread - really its not.
The author is a Dr. so perhaps thats why I was expecting a bit more academic theory, but the title should have raised some alarms.

It is perhaps the best thats out there, and if you have Mels brain to pick during a course its probably excellent, but on its own I would not recoomend it.

Sorry. BTW mine is Rev 2.0.

Nicolai

kev · 1st July 2008, 21:44

Thanks Guys for the quick responses. I will chase this book up.

Kev

sunnyboy · 2nd July 2008, 07:28

I think one of the best books for looking at all aspects of mixed gas diving (including almost all of the deco theories etc) is "Deeper into Diving" by John Lippmann and Dr. Simon Mitchell. ISBN 0-9752290-1-X

When I was looking for a well written discussion of deco theory as well as other topics in technical diving, this was the one book that really "hit the spot" for me.

Section titles: 1. Physical, sensory, physiological and psychological considerations; 2. Decompression systems; 3. Altitude considerations and diving; 4. Technical & occupational diving.

Cheers,

-S

scubagrunt · 2nd July 2008, 10:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by amberjack)

Not trying to rock the boat, but I own a copy of "CCR Trimix Simplified" by Mel Clark. I bought it based on the recommendations on Rebreather World. In my humble opinion, it is a terrible "book*." It reads more like an incredibly lame powerpoint presentation, with poor grammar and typos galore. Not the quality I expect from someone with "Dr." in her name.

cheers

* only if you consider pages that look like they were printed and bound at home a book.

Gee amberjack, tell me how you really feel!!

Rob Dobson · 2nd July 2008, 13:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by amberjack)

Not trying to rock the boat, but I own a copy of "CCR Trimix Simplified" by Mel Clark. I bought it based on the recommendations on Rebreather World. In my humble opinion, it is a terrible "book*." It reads more like an incredibly lame powerpoint presentation, with poor grammar and typos galore. Not the quality I expect from someone with "Dr." in her name.

cheers

* only if you consider pages that look like they were printed and bound at home a book.

I own a copy of Mel's book and for me it was excellent preparation for my switch from Tx OC to Tx CCR. As I already had a good understanding of Tx diving and deco theory it was a very easy read, and did what I needed it to do; a unit non-specific overview of how Tx applies to CCR. It is not supposed to be a white paper on He off gassing or a unit specific manual. What exactly do you feel wasn't covered in the book?

Have you looked at the alternatives out there? The other printed materials claiming to cover this area that I have seen are utterly useless and Mel's book stands out as the practical and relevant guide to CCR Tx diving. It is not a substitute for training and nor is it meant to be, but it is an excellent supplemental source of reference material for when we are starting down this road.

Yes there are some minor errors in it but that is why these things go through revisions and the mistakes get ironed out over time. I am sure Mel would welcome constructive feedback on how her book can be improved.

Personally I am grateful that Mel took the time to write this book and I must question the motives behind unquantifiable public panning of her work; especially from someone who claims to not even own or dive a rebreather yet...

jkaterenchuk · 2nd July 2008, 13:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rob Dobson)

I own a copy of Mel's book and for me it was excellent preparation for my switch from Tx OC to Tx CCR.

Personally I am grateful that Mel took the time to write this book and I must question the motives behind unquantifiable public panning of her work; especially from someone who claims to not even own or dive a rebreather yet...

Isn't it wonderful that we are all allowed to express our opinions even if they are different. I agree with the other posters that did not find the book meaningful. It's only my opinion. I paid for the book and should be entitled to give my opinion on the forum just like you. Shame on you for assuming that the other poster has a motive behind their post. We could all easily think you have a motive behind your positive post....maybe you got a free copy.

I am sure the author did not and does not expect everyone to like her book, writing style or content and she is quiet capable of defending her work on her own should she feel the need.

John

shil · 2nd July 2008, 14:07

Us Navy dive manual is a must, as well as Noaa manual.
Having read the above and mastering rebreathers,(Bozanic), I would recommend highly a french book by Jacques Vettier. 'Les recycleurs' it's an epitome of clarity and logic, well written too.

Shil

Ben Field · 2nd July 2008, 14:17

May I be so bold as to suggest the RBW search engine?

Its not a book or a manual and it is riddled with errors and typos, however while it might be be considered instructive the posts on mixed gas rebreather diving give an excellent understanding of how divers are actually using Trimix Dil in rebreathers, what problems they have etc.

I'm OC Trimix qualified and have found the information here very useful in forming ideas on whom I might do Trimix CC training with, how I might adapt kit for the course and following deep dives, how I choose to plan decompression and how I might approach both mentally.

silentscuba · 2nd July 2008, 19:33

Thanks everyone for your input on Mel's CCR Trimix manual. We have sold over 700 manuals now and have only had a few people that have said they did not like it.

Our intent is to have a manual that most people like, you can't please everyone.

We have asked in the past for comments for changes and corrections from the instructors and students that are using the manual.

Before the manual was even sent out it was proof read by several qualified technical CCR Divers and it is very difficult to catch everything all at once.

If anyone has some input or changes that we can incorporate in the manual, please PM me with the information.

Thank you for your support.

Sincerely,

Curt

1st July 2008, 20:13	#11 (permalink)
offpro Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Up North, Norway Posts: 110	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR DIRrebreather Manual 2... __________________ -Mats- 08 Harley-Davidson Night Rod Special
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1st July 2008, 21:02	#12 (permalink)
Hanssing flap-flop ..... flap-flop Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 430	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR Well, not to rain on anyones parade, but I also bought Mels book due to the positive reviews her eon Rebreather World. * I was extremely disappointed, its not simplified - its for dummies. * I was expecting to learn something new only in few areas was there anything to learn, and I no training what ever in Tx. * The book reads much as slides for a course, wich is perhaps what it is meant as. * The pamphlet uses rewiev questions, and some of the questions were not even covered in the chapter.... * THe use of formulas are well not exactly what I would consider simplifing for a teoretic area as deep technical dives: Who would seriously write the equation: Pp = Fg x data ? It's Pp = Fg * Ptot With units its: Pp [bar] = Fg [%] * Ptot [bar] I know the above sounds harsh, and I'm perhaps a harsh critique of mathematical formulations as an engineer, but I open this thread to see what else than this book was recommended. Only to find it beeing advertised as the best thing since sliced bread - really its not. The author is a Dr. so perhaps thats why I was expecting a bit more academic theory, but the title should have raised some alarms. It is perhaps the best thats out there, and if you have Mels brain to pick during a course its probably excellent, but on its own I would not recoomend it. Sorry. BTW mine is Rev 2.0. Nicolai __________________ Woohooo - I can change my rEvo! Its going to be bitchin' tricked out piece of gear Last edited by Hanssing : 1st July 2008 at 21:08. Reason: spelling
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1st July 2008, 21:44	#13 (permalink)
kev New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blenheim New Zealand Posts: 7	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR Thanks Guys for the quick responses. I will chase this book up. Kev
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2nd July 2008, 07:28	#14 (permalink)
sunnyboy RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ladysmith, B.C. Canada Posts: 97	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR I think one of the best books for looking at all aspects of mixed gas diving (including almost all of the deco theories etc) is "Deeper into Diving" by John Lippmann and Dr. Simon Mitchell. ISBN 0-9752290-1-X When I was looking for a well written discussion of deco theory as well as other topics in technical diving, this was the one book that really "hit the spot" for me. Section titles: 1. Physical, sensory, physiological and psychological considerations; 2. Decompression systems; 3. Altitude considerations and diving; 4. Technical & occupational diving. Cheers, -S
(Online)

2nd July 2008, 10:47	#15 (permalink)
scubagrunt CCR Diva Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 441	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR Quote: (Originally Posted by amberjack) Not trying to rock the boat, but I own a copy of "CCR Trimix Simplified" by Mel Clark. I bought it based on the recommendations on Rebreather World. In my humble opinion, it is a terrible "book." It reads more like an incredibly lame powerpoint presentation, with poor grammar and typos galore. Not the quality I expect from someone with "Dr." in her name. cheers only if you consider pages that look like they were printed and bound at home a book. Gee amberjack, tell me how you really feel!! __________________ "No good deed goes unpunished!" www.silentscuba.com
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2nd July 2008, 13:24	#16 (permalink)
Rob Dobson New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Oxford Posts: 92	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR Quote: (Originally Posted by amberjack) Not trying to rock the boat, but I own a copy of "CCR Trimix Simplified" by Mel Clark. I bought it based on the recommendations on Rebreather World. In my humble opinion, it is a terrible "book." It reads more like an incredibly lame powerpoint presentation, with poor grammar and typos galore. Not the quality I expect from someone with "Dr." in her name. cheers only if you consider pages that look like they were printed and bound at home a book. I own a copy of Mel's book and for me it was excellent preparation for my switch from Tx OC to Tx CCR. As I already had a good understanding of Tx diving and deco theory it was a very easy read, and did what I needed it to do; a unit non-specific overview of how Tx applies to CCR. It is not supposed to be a white paper on He off gassing or a unit specific manual. What exactly do you feel wasn't covered in the book? Have you looked at the alternatives out there? The other printed materials claiming to cover this area that I have seen are utterly useless and Mel's book stands out as the practical and relevant guide to CCR Tx diving. It is not a substitute for training and nor is it meant to be, but it is an excellent supplemental source of reference material for when we are starting down this road. Yes there are some minor errors in it but that is why these things go through revisions and the mistakes get ironed out over time. I am sure Mel would welcome constructive feedback on how her book can be improved. Personally I am grateful that Mel took the time to write this book and I must question the motives behind unquantifiable public panning of her work; especially from someone who claims to not even own or dive a rebreather yet...
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2nd July 2008, 13:48	#17 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,009	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR Quote: (Originally Posted by Rob Dobson) I own a copy of Mel's book and for me it was excellent preparation for my switch from Tx OC to Tx CCR. Personally I am grateful that Mel took the time to write this book and I must question the motives behind unquantifiable public panning of her work; especially from someone who claims to not even own or dive a rebreather yet... Isn't it wonderful that we are all allowed to express our opinions even if they are different. I agree with the other posters that did not find the book meaningful. It's only my opinion. I paid for the book and should be entitled to give my opinion on the forum just like you. Shame on you for assuming that the other poster has a motive behind their post. We could all easily think you have a motive behind your positive post....maybe you got a free copy. I am sure the author did not and does not expect everyone to like her book, writing style or content and she is quiet capable of defending her work on her own should she feel the need. John
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2nd July 2008, 14:07	#18 (permalink)
shil New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: India Posts: 30	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR Us Navy dive manual is a must, as well as Noaa manual. Having read the above and mastering rebreathers,(Bozanic), I would recommend highly a french book by Jacques Vettier. 'Les recycleurs' it's an epitome of clarity and logic, well written too. Shil
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2nd July 2008, 14:17	#19 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,739	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR May I be so bold as to suggest the RBW search engine? Its not a book or a manual and it is riddled with errors and typos, however while it might be be considered instructive the posts on mixed gas rebreather diving give an excellent understanding of how divers are actually using Trimix Dil in rebreathers, what problems they have etc. I'm OC Trimix qualified and have found the information here very useful in forming ideas on whom I might do Trimix CC training with, how I might adapt kit for the course and following deep dives, how I choose to plan decompression and how I might approach both mentally. __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
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2nd July 2008, 19:33	#20 (permalink)
silentscuba rEvo CCR Driver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic rEvo Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mill Creek, WA USA Posts: 612	Re: Reading Material for Mixed Gas CCR Thanks everyone for your input on Mel's CCR Trimix manual. We have sold over 700 manuals now and have only had a few people that have said they did not like it. Our intent is to have a manual that most people like, you can't please everyone. We have asked in the past for comments for changes and corrections from the instructors and students that are using the manual. Before the manual was even sent out it was proof read by several qualified technical CCR Divers and it is very difficult to catch everything all at once. If anyone has some input or changes that we can incorporate in the manual, please PM me with the information. Thank you for your support. Sincerely, Curt __________________ Curt McNamee rEvo CCR Diver KISS CCR Diver www.silentscuba.com
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