Deco issue on HH

karst.window · 2nd June 2008, 23:49

If this has been discussed before please point me to the correct thread.

I've logged about 40 hours or so on the Optima now and have had absolutely ZERO problems with the unit. I have noticed a peculiar issue regarding deco. Deco progresses normally right up to the point at which I have 1 minute at 10 feet. The handset (delrin/essentially new optima) will read 1 @ 10 with total ascent time of 1 minute for SEVERAL MINUTES. I have been staying at 10 feet for an additional 3 minutes to try and clear it out but the only thing that seems to put me in the "no stop" is ascending to about 7 feet. Once I get to this point I notice the "no stop" indicated. I have 2 other dive buddies that have noticed the same thing. We all have the same software version as we were certified at the same time. I am currently using a 25/85 GF. My buddies use 30/75 for the most part. I don't think that makes any difference but thought I'd atleast mention it. Anyway, if someone has any thoughts about this they would be greatly appreciated.

Sean

Sean

diverreb · 2nd June 2008, 23:58

They all do that.... Just something that needs to be worked out. Not a big deal.

Once you've spent a few minutes at the 10' stop after the one minute shows up you should be OK.

As you noted it will clear around 7 feet or so.

We are hoping Kevin will someday give us the option of making a deeper (15' or 20') last stop.... Then we can watch the one minute at 20' last for ten minutes....

Richie

**Dsix36** · 3rd June 2008, 00:09

Ditto

very common problem. We have learned to live with it.

karst.window · 3rd June 2008, 00:27

It's reassuring that everyone else has been having the same issue. A few more minutes of deco is not a big deal ... for me. Thanks for the input!

Sean

**Dsix36** · 3rd June 2008, 00:44

I just look at the time when I get to the 10' stop and hang for 1 extra minute. I know that I get the full time that way.

**UWSojourner** · 3rd June 2008, 04:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

We are hoping Kevin will someday give us the option of making a deeper (15' or 20') last stop.... Then we can watch the one minute at 20' last for ten minutes....

Does Kevin own the code? I thought I heard of the non-clearing 10ft stop a couple of years ago. It doesn't seem like a bug like that should be that hard to correct.

***jradomski*** · 3rd June 2008, 04:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by karst.window)

If this has been discussed before please point me to the correct thread.

I've logged about 40 hours or so on the Optima now and have had absolutely ZERO problems with the unit. I have noticed a peculiar issue regarding deco. Deco progresses normally right up to the point at which I have 1 minute at 10 feet. The handset (delrin/essentially new optima) will read 1 @ 10 with total ascent time of 1 minute for SEVERAL MINUTES. I have been staying at 10 feet for an additional 3 minutes to try and clear it out but the only thing that seems to put me in the "no stop" is ascending to about 7 feet. Once I get to this point I notice the "no stop" indicated. I have 2 other dive buddies that have noticed the same thing. We all have the same software version as we were certified at the same time. I am currently using a 25/85 GF. My buddies use 30/75 for the most part. I don't think that makes any difference but thought I'd atleast mention it. Anyway, if someone has any thoughts about this they would be greatly appreciated.

Sean

Sean

Sean,

How long the "1 minute" will last depends on several key factors.. the 2 main ones being what the gf is set at and how deep your initial stop was.. The roblem is the way GF is done, the current allowable GF is based on the current depth, as you get closer to the surface you get closer to your max GF..

think of it this way.. say you had a gf high of 75.. and your first stop was 30 fsw.. then you have 4 stops to get to 75.. (3 plus the surface).. so when you are at 10fsw your allowable gf is somewhere around a 60, by breaking the 10fsw ceiling the new GF is what your chosen ceiling is.. There are also some other factors that will effect this calculation.. Bump up your PO2 at this point will also help the 1 minute thing along..

This is a simplistinc explanation but should suffice..

**UWSojourner** · 3rd June 2008, 05:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

... This is a simplistinc explanation but should suffice..

Suffice to explain why the bug is ok? Or what caused it?

Either way, it shouldn't take several minutes to clear a 1 min stop. Neither should you have to break a ceiling to clear it. Just admit that the bug is there and fix it.

karst.window · 3rd June 2008, 11:58

Joe,I am mostly using the 25/85 GF. I am decompressing at 1.2 until I hit the 10 foot stop then switch over to a 1.0. It seems to keep the solenoid from being too annoying. I am fine doing the deco but would just like to see ALL of the time listed. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't blowing a stop. I'll just keep doing what it sounds like everyone else is doing and just sit for a little extra time to be sure then ascend. I appreciate everyone's responses.Sean

scunick · 5th June 2008, 14:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by karst.window)

If this has been discussed before please point me to the correct thread.

I've logged about 40 hours or so on the Optima now and have had absolutely ZERO problems with the unit. I have noticed a peculiar issue regarding deco. Deco progresses normally right up to the point at which I have 1 minute at 10 feet. The handset (delrin/essentially new optima) will read 1 @ 10 with total ascent time of 1 minute for SEVERAL MINUTES. I have been staying at 10 feet for an additional 3 minutes to try and clear it out but the only thing that seems to put me in the "no stop" is ascending to about 7 feet. Once I get to this point I notice the "no stop" indicated. I have 2 other dive buddies that have noticed the same thing. We all have the same software version as we were certified at the same time. I am currently using a 25/85 GF. My buddies use 30/75 for the most part. I don't think that makes any difference but thought I'd atleast mention it. Anyway, if someone has any thoughts about this they would be greatly appreciated.

Sean

Sean

Sean,

I have had a similar issue with a Vision (though it doesn't sound as significant). The vision follows a "moving ceiling" and I finalise my deco at 6m due to the sea conditions here. At a point the vision gets to 1 minute at 0.2m and seems to get stuck. The only option is to follow the ceiling up. If you look at the GF graph you will see that you require the pressure gradient to off-gass that "final bit".

The traditional implementation uses static stops and not a "moving celing" and as such you will get to a point where the next static stop increment is not small enough to generate sufficient gradient (i.e. the model needs a 3ft stop and the static stops are in 10ft increments and you are at 10ft).

I see you frustration though because you are always wondering if you are blowing a stop.

ATB

Nick

2nd June 2008, 23:49	#1 (permalink)
karst.window New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 7	Deco issue on HH If this has been discussed before please point me to the correct thread. I've logged about 40 hours or so on the Optima now and have had absolutely ZERO problems with the unit. I have noticed a peculiar issue regarding deco. Deco progresses normally right up to the point at which I have 1 minute at 10 feet. The handset (delrin/essentially new optima) will read 1 @ 10 with total ascent time of 1 minute for SEVERAL MINUTES. I have been staying at 10 feet for an additional 3 minutes to try and clear it out but the only thing that seems to put me in the "no stop" is ascending to about 7 feet. Once I get to this point I notice the "no stop" indicated. I have 2 other dive buddies that have noticed the same thing. We all have the same software version as we were certified at the same time. I am currently using a 25/85 GF. My buddies use 30/75 for the most part. I don't think that makes any difference but thought I'd atleast mention it. Anyway, if someone has any thoughts about this they would be greatly appreciated. Sean Sean
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2nd June 2008, 23:58	#2 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 603	Re: Deco issue on HH They all do that.... Just something that needs to be worked out. Not a big deal. Once you've spent a few minutes at the 10' stop after the one minute shows up you should be OK. As you noted it will clear around 7 feet or so. We are hoping Kevin will someday give us the option of making a deeper (15' or 20') last stop.... Then we can watch the one minute at 20' last for ten minutes.... Richie
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3rd June 2008, 00:09	#3 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,078	Re: Deco issue on HH Ditto very common problem. We have learned to live with it. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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3rd June 2008, 00:27	#4 (permalink)
karst.window New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 7	Re: Deco issue on HH It's reassuring that everyone else has been having the same issue. A few more minutes of deco is not a big deal ... for me. Thanks for the input! Sean
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3rd June 2008, 00:44	#5 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,078	Re: Deco issue on HH I just look at the time when I get to the 10' stop and hang for 1 extra minute. I know that I get the full time that way. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Online)

3rd June 2008, 04:41	#6 (permalink)
UWSojourner Pacific Northwest Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 556	Re: Deco issue on HH Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) We are hoping Kevin will someday give us the option of making a deeper (15' or 20') last stop.... Then we can watch the one minute at 20' last for ten minutes.... Does Kevin own the code? I thought I heard of the non-clearing 10ft stop a couple of years ago. It doesn't seem like a bug like that should be that hard to correct.
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3rd June 2008, 04:45	#7 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,023	Re: Deco issue on HH Quote: (Originally Posted by karst.window) If this has been discussed before please point me to the correct thread. I've logged about 40 hours or so on the Optima now and have had absolutely ZERO problems with the unit. I have noticed a peculiar issue regarding deco. Deco progresses normally right up to the point at which I have 1 minute at 10 feet. The handset (delrin/essentially new optima) will read 1 @ 10 with total ascent time of 1 minute for SEVERAL MINUTES. I have been staying at 10 feet for an additional 3 minutes to try and clear it out but the only thing that seems to put me in the "no stop" is ascending to about 7 feet. Once I get to this point I notice the "no stop" indicated. I have 2 other dive buddies that have noticed the same thing. We all have the same software version as we were certified at the same time. I am currently using a 25/85 GF. My buddies use 30/75 for the most part. I don't think that makes any difference but thought I'd atleast mention it. Anyway, if someone has any thoughts about this they would be greatly appreciated. Sean Sean Sean, How long the "1 minute" will last depends on several key factors.. the 2 main ones being what the gf is set at and how deep your initial stop was.. The roblem is the way GF is done, the current allowable GF is based on the current depth, as you get closer to the surface you get closer to your max GF.. think of it this way.. say you had a gf high of 75.. and your first stop was 30 fsw.. then you have 4 stops to get to 75.. (3 plus the surface).. so when you are at 10fsw your allowable gf is somewhere around a 60, by breaking the 10fsw ceiling the new GF is what your chosen ceiling is.. There are also some other factors that will effect this calculation.. Bump up your PO2 at this point will also help the 1 minute thing along.. This is a simplistinc explanation but should suffice.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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3rd June 2008, 05:49	#8 (permalink)
UWSojourner Pacific Northwest Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 556	Re: Deco issue on HH Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) ... This is a simplistinc explanation but should suffice.. Suffice to explain why the bug is ok? Or what caused it? Either way, it shouldn't take several minutes to clear a 1 min stop. Neither should you have to break a ceiling to clear it. Just admit that the bug is there and fix it.
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3rd June 2008, 11:58	#9 (permalink)
karst.window New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 7	Re: Deco issue on HH Joe,I am mostly using the 25/85 GF. I am decompressing at 1.2 until I hit the 10 foot stop then switch over to a 1.0. It seems to keep the solenoid from being too annoying. I am fine doing the deco but would just like to see ALL of the time listed. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't blowing a stop. I'll just keep doing what it sounds like everyone else is doing and just sit for a little extra time to be sure then ascend. I appreciate everyone's responses.Sean
(Offline)

5th June 2008, 14:28	#10 (permalink)
scunick Nick Cunningham-Moorat Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: South Africa - Cape Town Posts: 96	Re: Deco issue on HH Quote: (Originally Posted by karst.window) If this has been discussed before please point me to the correct thread. I've logged about 40 hours or so on the Optima now and have had absolutely ZERO problems with the unit. I have noticed a peculiar issue regarding deco. Deco progresses normally right up to the point at which I have 1 minute at 10 feet. The handset (delrin/essentially new optima) will read 1 @ 10 with total ascent time of 1 minute for SEVERAL MINUTES. I have been staying at 10 feet for an additional 3 minutes to try and clear it out but the only thing that seems to put me in the "no stop" is ascending to about 7 feet. Once I get to this point I notice the "no stop" indicated. I have 2 other dive buddies that have noticed the same thing. We all have the same software version as we were certified at the same time. I am currently using a 25/85 GF. My buddies use 30/75 for the most part. I don't think that makes any difference but thought I'd atleast mention it. Anyway, if someone has any thoughts about this they would be greatly appreciated. Sean Sean Sean, I have had a similar issue with a Vision (though it doesn't sound as significant). The vision follows a "moving ceiling" and I finalise my deco at 6m due to the sea conditions here. At a point the vision gets to 1 minute at 0.2m and seems to get stuck. The only option is to follow the ceiling up. If you look at the GF graph you will see that you require the pressure gradient to off-gass that "final bit". The traditional implementation uses static stops and not a "moving celing" and as such you will get to a point where the next static stop increment is not small enough to generate sufficient gradient (i.e. the model needs a 3ft stop and the static stops are in 10ft increments and you are at 10ft). I see you frustration though because you are always wondering if you are blowing a stop. ATB Nick
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