Questions about optima controls

n2diving · 21st April 2008, 01:17

I, Mark Derrick, was the instructor he spoke with who recommended upgrading to the delrin handsets. The unit he purchased was from Farallon via eBay, and have the original metal handsets which were pretty much certain to corrode and leak. I'm also aware of some history with that specific unit which makes me uncomfortable.

There were later several improvements to the metal handsets, and there are certainly some still in use. However, I've sold a lot of O2ptimas and as a result I get a fair amount of feedback on them. I also have a great many personal hours on both the metal and the delrin handsets. With meticulous care, and a bit of experience with their peculiarities, such as the resetting problems related to the battery doors, they are certainly serviceable. Still, in my opinion it's just a matter of time until the depth sensor leaks and the handset fails, that issue was only resolved with the delrin handsets. In the last 10 days, I've seen two more of the metal handsets, both with the updates, fail with leaks at the depth sensor. I simply can't recommend the metal handsets when the delrin handsets, which exhibit none of these problems as well as providing a battery voltage monitor, are available. These are not just annoyance issues, in my opinion the Delrin handsets offer improved safety.

An experienced O2ptima diver who is knowledgeable about their unit and it's handsets, vs. a new diver who is about to receive instruction on the O2ptima, are two different situations. For an experienced O2ptima diver, I recommend updating to the delrin handsets when convenient. For a new diver about to train on the O2ptima, I would not recommend starting training until the handsets have been upgraded to the delrin versions. While some other posts in this thread wish to dismiss my experience with the O2ptima, I stand by my recommendation. Based on my experience with the O2ptima, I would not just update the metal handsets. I recommend upgrading to the delrin handsets as the safest choice for a diver new to the O2ptima.

As always, safety issues are rarely black and white, particularly where money is involved. Making a personal choice regarding my safety as an individual, and making a recommendation as a professional instructor during a brief telephone conversation, are significantly different situations.

n2diving · 21st April 2008, 02:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by jiseson)

the software fix cures the reboot sensor firing issue

Just to be clear... the software fix does not stop the rebooting (caused by the battery door issues, and/or low battery voltage, on the metal handset), it does greatly reduce the probability that the loop will become hyperoxic as a result of the rebooting. The diver will still lose all their decompression information, along with max depth and dive time on that handset, as a result of the reboot. The secondary will still have max depth and time, along with current depth, so that the diver can switch to a backup table.

***jradomski*** · 21st April 2008, 04:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

. Still, in my opinion it's just a matter of time until the depth sensor leaks and the handset fails, that issue was only resolved with the delrin handsets. In the last 10 days, I've seen two more of the metal handsets, both with the updates, fail with leaks at the depth sensor. .

Mark,
leaks at the depth sensor are JUST AS LIKELY for the delrin handsets installed before november as they are with the metal handsets, so by your logic every one of the delrin sets purchased before these dates should go in for a swap as well.. The leaking is not caused by anything in the case, rather the depth sensor itself.. I HAVE seen delrin units flood as well due to a failed sensor.. Just cause a unit had a software update doesnt mean the sensors were swapped out.. If everything check out ok there would not have been a reason to do a swap of sensors, since its a small failure rate..

The flooding is a small sample, as can be easily seen how many units for all rigs that are out there... There will be failures and it has to be dealth with.. as to the "unit in question" if its one of the early Nikel units, its probably one from the initial batch which had the plating done correctly.. Other than the need to swap the bezel (al for SS), those untis held up great.. I had HUNDREDS of dives on mine - almost all salt water (Mine originally came without a bezel).. The only corrosion I had was where I chipped off the plating from having the handset hit something (original handset werent as rounded as later batches - HARDER CORNERS).. If its a later batch (of nikel handsets) then corrosion is much more likely as there were more than a few handsets with corrosion issues - It was hit or miss...

The last metal units and the early delrin units have mods by JM to strengthen the sensor, both of these units should have similiar failure rates.. late last year a change was done to the sensor by the manufacturer that should improve reliability to any unit using the sensor.. The metal handsets and the delrin handsets use the same method to mount and seal the sensor.. the weak point is the sensor itself..

Prioir to that its all dependent on the batch of the pressure sensor and if it was ever replaced, not the handsets on whether the sensor will leak or not..

jiseson · 21st April 2008, 13:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

Just to be clear... the software fix does not stop the rebooting (caused by the battery door issues, and/or low battery voltage, on the metal handset), it does greatly reduce the probability that the loop will become hyperoxic as a result of the rebooting. The diver will still lose all their decompression information, along with max depth and dive time on that handset, as a result of the reboot. The secondary will still have max depth and time, along with current depth, so that the diver can switch to a backup table.

mark- i was not discounting your recommendations-i too see the upgrade as a major ++ and will be doing so shortly. was just saying an interim improvement was what i did. i value all of your teachings and experience and in no way meant any disrespect in any form. was not aware it was u. after many dives my metal handsets appear as new fyi.

dragerdiver · 21st April 2008, 22:05

Hey guys,
I never intended to start a pissing match.
I did speak with Mark at Diverite express, He did tell me that the units had problems flooding, I agree that this is a saftey issue, As an instructor my self I always caution my students who buy junk gear off of Ebay, and all he was doing was telling me his experience, with the units. I am glad he did, I do intent to upgrade to the delrin sets but not this year. But back to My topic, I just wanted to know if these metal hand sets were junk or not, doesn't matter who say's what, I was just looking to gather information.
Now that I have the unit, it has the al with ss bezel. I intend to dive these at least for a year or till they flood. And yes I got one hell of a good deal, even if I have to replace the hand sets after the first dive. Besides I would never rely on just one deco computer, thats why I always dive a VR3.
Lee

tflaris · 21st May 2008, 00:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by dragerdiver)

I found a great deal on a optima rebreather on ebay. I have wanted one for a while but after winning the bid on ebay and then looking for an instructor, I was told by an instructor, that the type I got with metal hand sets are gaurranted to leak, and that I should upgrades and that the upgrades are rather expensive to the tune of about $2000.00. So the deal I thought I was getting may just be a huge piece of junk, does any one have any experiance with these units. did dive rite actually produce a rebreather that is of a poor quality that the main elecrtronics woould flood?

If you change your mind about keeping it drop me pm

21st April 2008, 01:17	#11 (permalink)
n2diving Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 270	Re: Questions about optima controls I, Mark Derrick, was the instructor he spoke with who recommended upgrading to the delrin handsets. The unit he purchased was from Farallon via eBay, and have the original metal handsets which were pretty much certain to corrode and leak. I'm also aware of some history with that specific unit which makes me uncomfortable. There were later several improvements to the metal handsets, and there are certainly some still in use. However, I've sold a lot of O2ptimas and as a result I get a fair amount of feedback on them. I also have a great many personal hours on both the metal and the delrin handsets. With meticulous care, and a bit of experience with their peculiarities, such as the resetting problems related to the battery doors, they are certainly serviceable. Still, in my opinion it's just a matter of time until the depth sensor leaks and the handset fails, that issue was only resolved with the delrin handsets. In the last 10 days, I've seen two more of the metal handsets, both with the updates, fail with leaks at the depth sensor. I simply can't recommend the metal handsets when the delrin handsets, which exhibit none of these problems as well as providing a battery voltage monitor, are available. These are not just annoyance issues, in my opinion the Delrin handsets offer improved safety. An experienced O2ptima diver who is knowledgeable about their unit and it's handsets, vs. a new diver who is about to receive instruction on the O2ptima, are two different situations. For an experienced O2ptima diver, I recommend updating to the delrin handsets when convenient. For a new diver about to train on the O2ptima, I would not recommend starting training until the handsets have been upgraded to the delrin versions. While some other posts in this thread wish to dismiss my experience with the O2ptima, I stand by my recommendation. Based on my experience with the O2ptima, I would not just update the metal handsets. I recommend upgrading to the delrin handsets as the safest choice for a diver new to the O2ptima. As always, safety issues are rarely black and white, particularly where money is involved. Making a personal choice regarding my safety as an individual, and making a recommendation as a professional instructor during a brief telephone conversation, are significantly different situations. Last edited by n2diving : 21st April 2008 at 02:14.
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21st April 2008, 02:47	#12 (permalink)
n2diving Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 270	Re: Questions about optima controls Quote: (Originally Posted by jiseson) the software fix cures the reboot sensor firing issue Just to be clear... the software fix does not stop the rebooting (caused by the battery door issues, and/or low battery voltage, on the metal handset), it does greatly reduce the probability that the loop will become hyperoxic as a result of the rebooting. The diver will still lose all their decompression information, along with max depth and dive time on that handset, as a result of the reboot. The secondary will still have max depth and time, along with current depth, so that the diver can switch to a backup table.
(Offline)

21st April 2008, 04:39	#13 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,798	Re: Questions about optima controls Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) . Still, in my opinion it's just a matter of time until the depth sensor leaks and the handset fails, that issue was only resolved with the delrin handsets. In the last 10 days, I've seen two more of the metal handsets, both with the updates, fail with leaks at the depth sensor. . Mark, leaks at the depth sensor are JUST AS LIKELY for the delrin handsets installed before november as they are with the metal handsets, so by your logic every one of the delrin sets purchased before these dates should go in for a swap as well.. The leaking is not caused by anything in the case, rather the depth sensor itself.. I HAVE seen delrin units flood as well due to a failed sensor.. Just cause a unit had a software update doesnt mean the sensors were swapped out.. If everything check out ok there would not have been a reason to do a swap of sensors, since its a small failure rate.. The flooding is a small sample, as can be easily seen how many units for all rigs that are out there... There will be failures and it has to be dealth with.. as to the "unit in question" if its one of the early Nikel units, its probably one from the initial batch which had the plating done correctly.. Other than the need to swap the bezel (al for SS), those untis held up great.. I had HUNDREDS of dives on mine - almost all salt water (Mine originally came without a bezel).. The only corrosion I had was where I chipped off the plating from having the handset hit something (original handset werent as rounded as later batches - HARDER CORNERS).. If its a later batch (of nikel handsets) then corrosion is much more likely as there were more than a few handsets with corrosion issues - It was hit or miss... The last metal units and the early delrin units have mods by JM to strengthen the sensor, both of these units should have similiar failure rates.. late last year a change was done to the sensor by the manufacturer that should improve reliability to any unit using the sensor.. The metal handsets and the delrin handsets use the same method to mount and seal the sensor.. the weak point is the sensor itself.. Prioir to that its all dependent on the batch of the pressure sensor and if it was ever replaced, not the handsets on whether the sensor will leak or not.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 23rd April 2008 at 09:25.
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21st April 2008, 13:56	#14 (permalink)
jiseson DSIX/O2PTIMA Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island,ny Posts: 432	Re: Questions about optima controls Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) Just to be clear... the software fix does not stop the rebooting (caused by the battery door issues, and/or low battery voltage, on the metal handset), it does greatly reduce the probability that the loop will become hyperoxic as a result of the rebooting. The diver will still lose all their decompression information, along with max depth and dive time on that handset, as a result of the reboot. The secondary will still have max depth and time, along with current depth, so that the diver can switch to a backup table. mark- i was not discounting your recommendations-i too see the upgrade as a major ++ and will be doing so shortly. was just saying an interim improvement was what i did. i value all of your teachings and experience and in no way meant any disrespect in any form. was not aware it was u. after many dives my metal handsets appear as new fyi. __________________ *Jonathan D Iseson*
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21st April 2008, 22:05	#15 (permalink)
dragerdiver New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Gahanna, ohio Posts: 5	Re: Questions about optima controls Hey guys, I never intended to start a pissing match. I did speak with Mark at Diverite express, He did tell me that the units had problems flooding, I agree that this is a saftey issue, As an instructor my self I always caution my students who buy junk gear off of Ebay, and all he was doing was telling me his experience, with the units. I am glad he did, I do intent to upgrade to the delrin sets but not this year. But back to My topic, I just wanted to know if these metal hand sets were junk or not, doesn't matter who say's what, I was just looking to gather information. Now that I have the unit, it has the al with ss bezel. I intend to dive these at least for a year or till they flood. And yes I got one hell of a good deal, even if I have to replace the hand sets after the first dive. Besides I would never rely on just one deco computer, thats why I always dive a VR3. Lee Last edited by dragerdiver : 22nd April 2008 at 00:10.
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21st May 2008, 00:12	#16 (permalink)
tflaris Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida Posts: 194	Re: Questions about optima controls Quote: (Originally Posted by dragerdiver) I found a great deal on a optima rebreather on ebay. I have wanted one for a while but after winning the bid on ebay and then looking for an instructor, I was told by an instructor, that the type I got with metal hand sets are gaurranted to leak, and that I should upgrades and that the upgrades are rather expensive to the tune of about $2000.00. So the deal I thought I was getting may just be a huge piece of junk, does any one have any experiance with these units. did dive rite actually produce a rebreather that is of a poor quality that the main elecrtronics woould flood? If you change your mind about keeping it drop me pm __________________ "Except for this one, I have come to the conclusion that all generalizations are false" -Jim Hayes
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