Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences?

**Dsix36** · 4th April 2008, 20:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

I get 6 hours out of a cartridge very consistantly. This is with mild to low workload. This is using 3/4 of the cartridge and leaving me 1/4 a buffer.

I have reused cartrides that were 8 weeks old with no problems. I keep the used ones sealed and labeled to prevent confusion.

I used to deduct a little from the duration of an opened cartridge for each week that it has been opened. I have found that this is not necessary, as the time frame does not effect the cartridge usage.

AND NOW THE DISCLAIMER:
This is for my metabolism - not yours.
You may/may not be able to get the same duration

.

First of all: Yes, I know that I am quoting my self here.

I was just re-educated in the EAC's by Mark. When I get to 6 hr and have 1/4 left for a buffer WRONG - When I get to that part - It is Done.

When the EAC has reached the last 1/4, breakthrough is very very very very very very (you get my point) easy and the cartridge is done.

6 hr with my metabolism is the absolute maximum and should not be pushed that hard.

I will have to rethink my Eac usage and limit myself to 5 hr max with light to no workload.

diverreb · 4th April 2008, 21:07

Andy,

People who dive rebreathers are a very small population. People who dive Optima's are a small part of that universe... Say 330 or so. People who dive O2ptima's and travel to remote locations of the World to dive their O2ptima's with any frequency are maybe 20% of that. Given that small of a market and repeated comments from DiveRite about how their unit was designed around the EAC and that being a major selling point for the unit, I seriously doubt you'll ever see a Granular Sorb option for the unit.

Never say never, but from DiveRite's comments on the subject at this point, it's pretty solid.

So for that portion of the market that travel to remote locations and can't ship their EAC's there, the O2ptima clearly isn't for them.

Really, I can live with that and so will DiveRite.

Richie

diverreb · 4th April 2008, 21:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

First of all: Yes, I know that I am quoting my self here.

I was just re-educated in the EAC's by Mark. When I get to 6 hr and have 1/4 left for a buffer WRONG - When I get to that part - It is Done.

When the EAC has reached the last 1/4, breakthrough is very very very very very very (you get my point) easy and the cartridge is done.

6 hr with my metabolism is the absolute maximum and should not be pushed that hard.

I will have to rethink my Eac usage and limit myself to 5 hr max with light to no workload.

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

The line which divides the good from the bad can't be accurately determined. When you are down to the last quarter of the EAC it's basically done. They can never be used 100%.
Richie

Ok, since you quoted yourself, so did I!

Don, When I mentioned this it didn't strike a chord, but when Mark told you it rocked your world.... I'm hurt!

Mark, thanks for giving Don a wake up call!

Richie

JCdesign97 · 4th April 2008, 21:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

...

Thanks for the compliment? With all due respect to you JC, nowhere did I say sorb was "better" in some ultimate, overarching sense than EACs, that's not why I piped up. Things were being said which were not true and I pointed out that not everybody who goes beyond the mnf recommendations is a suicidal cheapskate who should be purged from CCR diving. The glaring omission of a granular scrubber option for the Optima means that for most of us, it's not feasible to use an Optima in most remote locations, where some of the best diving is. So, duration is obviously important to people who travel to dive and this was not being taken fully into account in the discussion. Instead we get people quoting mnf specs, making uniformed judgments about other's motivations and posting stuff that's not accurate.

And last time I checked, you don't have to be an Optima "OWNER" to post on any thread. Things would become very boring and cliquish around here if that were the case. There have been many uninvited comments on Prism threads and I don't recall anybody trying to chase them out with anything more than logic.

I've said many times that the Optima is a good unit and that EACs have some very good features and I would like to have more CCR divers available to dive with in the beautiful remote parts of the world, not less. Maybe the Optima designers will finally get the granular scrubber out if more people complain about this blatant limitation, that's my beef, simple as that... -Andy

Man, and I thought I was bad with having to get the last word!

Andy, it was a compliment to you ... and I was simply trying to end an existing pointless pissing contest; not start a new one. I don't disagree with any of your points in the overall sense, but like Richie so-eloquently illustrated you're preaching to a very, very small choir. And I still think that you really are missing the entire point of this thread - simply for Optima divers to compare their duration experiences using the EAC. Not to debate whether Dive Rite made the right choice by not including another option, etc. But you're absolutely right, I'm certainly not a moderator so I'll STFU now.

**sfldiver** · 4th April 2008, 21:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

Ok, since you quoted yourself, so did I!

Don, When I mentioned this it didn't strike a chord, but when Mark told you it rocked your world.... I'm hurt!

Mark, thanks for giving Don a wake up call!

Richie

Richie, Don's apparent inability to view you as a less than credible source can only be attributed to one thing...the image seared in his cerebal cortex of you, captured on film, attempting to mount a fellow diver from behind while diving on the Speigel Grove!!!!

You know what they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words!"

**Dsix36** · 4th April 2008, 21:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

Ok, since you quoted yourself, so did I!

Don, When I mentioned this it didn't strike a chord, but when Mark told you it rocked your world.... I'm hurt!

Mark, thanks for giving Don a wake up call!

Richie

Ah, Richie. Don't feel hurt. I posted that to clarify for other members that may/may not take my post too literally.

Actually, I was pretty sure that I was maxing out the scrubber even before Mark talked to me. I remember what I was taught and have been doing research also.

I have breathed the 6 hr cartridge in my living room for an extra bit to find the end of life. Sitting and watching TV will give me an extra hour (7 hr total). However, If I am walking around for the extra bit, I can only get about 15 minutes more.

Obviously I was about 15 minutes (or less) from a CO2 hit on the previous dive.

I am the type of person that has to know exactly where my limits are and what to expect at the end of them. I now know when my EAC will expire and give me CO2 breakthrough and that if I let it continue, my head will hurt like hell.

I have a partially used EAC in my garage that is over 3 months old and only used for 37 min. I will be doing some testing with that also to learn about the storage of them. I don't think I will take that one to the water though.

I also know that I can make a free ascent from 80 ft. Yes, this was also on purpose to test my abilities. I had a buddy with me since I was expecting to blackout. I never attempted 85', if that tells you anything

I did a 2 1/2 hr beach dive just to measure my sac rate while at rest and while swimming. Then a lot of other drills with the new configuration.

I have also tried to breathe water and was forced to give up on that idea. I know how much time is required for me to blackout in a relaxed state and in a paniced state also.

Maybe knowing all of this is more than I need to know, but I am a very logical in the way that I approach things and this knowledge helps me keep my sh*t together when I really need it. It eliminates a lot of variables and replaces them with known/tested values.

Now that all of my dive buddies have seen this and freaked out??? Solo???

***caveseeker7*** · 4th April 2008, 22:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

People who dive Optima's are a small part of that universe... Say 330 or so. People who dive O2ptima's and travel to remote locations of the World to dive their O2ptima's with any frequency are maybe 20% of that. Given that small of a market and repeated comments from DiveRite about how their unit was designed around the EAC and that being a major selling point for the unit, I seriously doubt you'll ever see a Granular Sorb option for the unit.

Those are the current owners. I still have yet to source the EAC in Germany, and they are rather rare in Europe. There are a lot of rebreather divers over here. And many of us travel abroad, since the local diving has its limits.

There are large markets Dive Rite hasn't tapped yet. Supplying EACs both in those markets as well as the major dive destinations we travel to will be key to their success. And any other CCR using them. Until Micropore bothers to build up a decent network of dealers the EAC and RBs using them exclusively will be nothing more than odd curiosities outside the US.

Anyway, back to the subject of how long you can push the limits before offing yourself.

Good luck.

diverreb · 4th April 2008, 22:09

Don,

That stuff is fine for sh*ts & giggles, but please realize that by you "testing" a few times will only tell you on that given day under those circumstances those were your results.

It doesn't translate to a "these are my limits" absolute. There are way too many variables that can dramatically change those results.

You need to account for this with a healthy safety margin to avoid the one time that the rules don't fit.

Hey, can I gather from your tests that if I watch TV while diving I can get 7 hours from my scrubber?

Dive Safe,

Richie

diverreb · 4th April 2008, 22:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Those are the current owners. I still have yet to source the EAC in Germany, and they are rather rare in Europe. There are a lot of rebreather divers over here. And many of us travel abroad, since the local diving has its limits.

There are large markets Dive Rite hasn't tapped yet. Supplying EACs both in those markets as well as the major dive destinations we travel to will be key to their success. And any other CCR using them. Until Micropore bothers to build up a decent network of dealers the EAC and RBs using them exclusively will be nothing more than odd curiosities outside the US.

Anyway, back to the subject of how long you can push the limits before offing yourself.

Good luck.

I agree with your post 100%, but I guess it's kind of a chicken and egg sort of thing. With low demand, dealers aren't going to stock the EAC's over there, and without the EAC's people won't jump on the O2ptima bandwagon.

The dollar being what it is though probably makes the unit a good value over there.

Maybe they will target a few areas abroad and try to build a marketshare.

Richie

diverreb · 4th April 2008, 22:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by sfldiver)

Richie, Don's apparent inability to view you as a less than credible source can only be attributed to one thing...the image seared in his cerebal cortex of you, captured on film, attempting to mount a fellow diver from behind while diving on the Speigel Grove!!!!

You know what they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words!"

Adrian,

I can't wait to dive with you.... Steve is so yesterday!

Richie

4th April 2008, 20:22	#31 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 891	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) I get 6 hours out of a cartridge very consistantly. This is with mild to low workload. This is using 3/4 of the cartridge and leaving me 1/4 a buffer. I have reused cartrides that were 8 weeks old with no problems. I keep the used ones sealed and labeled to prevent confusion. I used to deduct a little from the duration of an opened cartridge for each week that it has been opened. I have found that this is not necessary, as the time frame does not effect the cartridge usage. AND NOW THE DISCLAIMER: This is for my metabolism - not yours. You may/may not be able to get the same duration . First of all: Yes, I know that I am quoting my self here. I was just re-educated in the EAC's by Mark. When I get to 6 hr and have 1/4 left for a buffer WRONG - When I get to that part - It is Done. When the EAC has reached the last 1/4, breakthrough is very very very very very very (you get my point) easy and the cartridge is done. 6 hr with my metabolism is the absolute maximum and should not be pushed that hard. I will have to rethink my Eac usage and limit myself to 5 hr max with light to no workload. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Offline)

4th April 2008, 21:07	#32 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 517	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Andy, People who dive rebreathers are a very small population. People who dive Optima's are a small part of that universe... Say 330 or so. People who dive O2ptima's and travel to remote locations of the World to dive their O2ptima's with any frequency are maybe 20% of that. Given that small of a market and repeated comments from DiveRite about how their unit was designed around the EAC and that being a major selling point for the unit, I seriously doubt you'll ever see a Granular Sorb option for the unit. Never say never, but from DiveRite's comments on the subject at this point, it's pretty solid. So for that portion of the market that travel to remote locations and can't ship their EAC's there, the O2ptima clearly isn't for them. Really, I can live with that and so will DiveRite. Richie
(Online)

4th April 2008, 21:14	#33 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 517	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) First of all: Yes, I know that I am quoting my self here. I was just re-educated in the EAC's by Mark. When I get to 6 hr and have 1/4 left for a buffer WRONG - When I get to that part - It is Done. When the EAC has reached the last 1/4, breakthrough is very very very very very very (you get my point) easy and the cartridge is done. 6 hr with my metabolism is the absolute maximum and should not be pushed that hard. I will have to rethink my Eac usage and limit myself to 5 hr max with light to no workload. Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) The line which divides the good from the bad can't be accurately determined. When you are down to the last quarter of the EAC it's basically done. They can never be used 100%. Richie Ok, since you quoted yourself, so did I! Don, When I mentioned this it didn't strike a chord, but when Mark told you it rocked your world.... I'm hurt! Mark, thanks for giving Don a wake up call! Richie
(Online)

4th April 2008, 21:22	#34 (permalink)
JCdesign97 My unit can beat up yours Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: PA, USA Posts: 350	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) ... Thanks for the compliment? With all due respect to you JC, nowhere did I say sorb was "better" in some ultimate, overarching sense than EACs, that's not why I piped up. Things were being said which were not true and I pointed out that not everybody who goes beyond the mnf recommendations is a suicidal cheapskate who should be purged from CCR diving. The glaring omission of a granular scrubber option for the Optima means that for most of us, it's not feasible to use an Optima in most remote locations, where some of the best diving is. So, duration is obviously important to people who travel to dive and this was not being taken fully into account in the discussion. Instead we get people quoting mnf specs, making uniformed judgments about other's motivations and posting stuff that's not accurate. And last time I checked, you don't have to be an Optima "OWNER" to post on any thread. Things would become very boring and cliquish around here if that were the case. There have been many uninvited comments on Prism threads and I don't recall anybody trying to chase them out with anything more than logic. I've said many times that the Optima is a good unit and that EACs have some very good features and I would like to have more CCR divers available to dive with in the beautiful remote parts of the world, not less. Maybe the Optima designers will finally get the granular scrubber out if more people complain about this blatant limitation, that's my beef, simple as that... -Andy Man, and I thought I was bad with having to get the last word! Andy, it was a compliment to you ... and I was simply trying to end an existing pointless pissing contest; not start a new one. I don't disagree with any of your points in the overall sense, but like Richie so-eloquently illustrated you're preaching to a very, very small choir. And I still think that you really are missing the entire point of this thread - simply for Optima divers to compare their duration experiences using the EAC. Not to debate whether Dive Rite made the right choice by not including another option, etc. But you're absolutely right, I'm certainly not a moderator so I'll STFU now. __________________ Cheers, John
(Online)

4th April 2008, 21:40	#35 (permalink)
sfldiver Team Optima Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 664	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) Ok, since you quoted yourself, so did I! Don, When I mentioned this it didn't strike a chord, but when Mark told you it rocked your world.... I'm hurt! Mark, thanks for giving Don a wake up call! Richie Richie, Don's apparent inability to view you as a less than credible source can only be attributed to one thing...the image seared in his cerebal cortex of you, captured on film, attempting to mount a fellow diver from behind while diving on the Speigel Grove!!!! You know what they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words!" __________________ *Currently piloting & shooting...* Dive Rite O2ptima FX Rigged w/ a Dsix Custom Aluminum Frame, Nomad Wing, Transpac Harness and VR3 Computer w/ VPM-B/E & a 4th Cell Sensor Link.* Canon PowerShot G9 Digital Camera *Rigged in a Patima-PDCH 2008 G9 Aluminum Housing w/ an Inon UWL-100 Achromat Wide Conversion Lens, 2 Inon UCL-165M67 Close-Up Lenses and 2 Inon Z-240 Strobes.
(Online)

4th April 2008, 21:45	#36 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 891	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) Ok, since you quoted yourself, so did I! Don, When I mentioned this it didn't strike a chord, but when Mark told you it rocked your world.... I'm hurt! Mark, thanks for giving Don a wake up call! Richie Ah, Richie. Don't feel hurt. I posted that to clarify for other members that may/may not take my post too literally. Actually, I was pretty sure that I was maxing out the scrubber even before Mark talked to me. I remember what I was taught and have been doing research also. I have breathed the 6 hr cartridge in my living room for an extra bit to find the end of life. Sitting and watching TV will give me an extra hour (7 hr total). However, If I am walking around for the extra bit, I can only get about 15 minutes more. Obviously I was about 15 minutes (or less) from a CO2 hit on the previous dive. I am the type of person that has to know exactly where my limits are and what to expect at the end of them. I now know when my EAC will expire and give me CO2 breakthrough and that if I let it continue, my head will hurt like hell. I have a partially used EAC in my garage that is over 3 months old and only used for 37 min. I will be doing some testing with that also to learn about the storage of them. I don't think I will take that one to the water though. I also know that I can make a free ascent from 80 ft. Yes, this was also on purpose to test my abilities. I had a buddy with me since I was expecting to blackout. I never attempted 85', if that tells you anything I did a 2 1/2 hr beach dive just to measure my sac rate while at rest and while swimming. Then a lot of other drills with the new configuration. I have also tried to breathe water and was forced to give up on that idea. I know how much time is required for me to blackout in a relaxed state and in a paniced state also. Maybe knowing all of this is more than I need to know, but I am a very logical in the way that I approach things and this knowledge helps me keep my sht together when I really need it. It eliminates a lot of variables and replaces them with known/tested values. Now that all of my dive buddies have seen this and freaked out??? Solo??? __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!*
(Offline)

4th April 2008, 22:00	#37 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) People who dive Optima's are a small part of that universe... Say 330 or so. People who dive O2ptima's and travel to remote locations of the World to dive their O2ptima's with any frequency are maybe 20% of that. Given that small of a market and repeated comments from DiveRite about how their unit was designed around the EAC and that being a major selling point for the unit, I seriously doubt you'll ever see a Granular Sorb option for the unit. Those are the current owners. I still have yet to source the EAC in Germany, and they are rather rare in Europe. There are a lot of rebreather divers over here. And many of us travel abroad, since the local diving has its limits. There are large markets Dive Rite hasn't tapped yet. Supplying EACs both in those markets as well as the major dive destinations we travel to will be key to their success. And any other CCR using them. Until Micropore bothers to build up a decent network of dealers the EAC and RBs using them exclusively will be nothing more than odd curiosities outside the US. Anyway, back to the subject of how long you can push the limits before offing yourself. Good luck. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
(Offline)

4th April 2008, 22:09	#38 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 517	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Don, That stuff is fine for sh*ts & giggles, but please realize that by you "testing" a few times will only tell you on that given day under those circumstances those were your results. It doesn't translate to a "these are my limits" absolute. There are way too many variables that can dramatically change those results. You need to account for this with a healthy safety margin to avoid the one time that the rules don't fit. Hey, can I gather from your tests that if I watch TV while diving I can get 7 hours from my scrubber? Dive Safe, Richie
(Online)

4th April 2008, 22:16	#39 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 517	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Those are the current owners. I still have yet to source the EAC in Germany, and they are rather rare in Europe. There are a lot of rebreather divers over here. And many of us travel abroad, since the local diving has its limits. There are large markets Dive Rite hasn't tapped yet. Supplying EACs both in those markets as well as the major dive destinations we travel to will be key to their success. And any other CCR using them. Until Micropore bothers to build up a decent network of dealers the EAC and RBs using them exclusively will be nothing more than odd curiosities outside the US. Anyway, back to the subject of how long you can push the limits before offing yourself. Good luck. I agree with your post 100%, but I guess it's kind of a chicken and egg sort of thing. With low demand, dealers aren't going to stock the EAC's over there, and without the EAC's people won't jump on the O2ptima bandwagon. The dollar being what it is though probably makes the unit a good value over there. Maybe they will target a few areas abroad and try to build a marketshare. Richie
(Online)

4th April 2008, 22:20	#40 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 517	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by sfldiver) Richie, Don's apparent inability to view you as a less than credible source can only be attributed to one thing...the image seared in his cerebal cortex of you, captured on film, attempting to mount a fellow diver from behind while diving on the Speigel Grove!!!! You know what they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words!" Adrian, I can't wait to dive with you.... Steve is so yesterday! Richie
(Online)

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